The Gospels and the Mystery
- Thread starter Musicmaster
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I must say, I find it odd you would suggest that those who believe and act in faith to God's plan of salvation are trying to impress Him. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Hebrews 5:9 states that Jesus became the author of salvation unto all those who obey Him.
And it was Jesus who said: "Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:
He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock." Luke 6:47-48
Hebrews 5:9 states that Jesus became the author of salvation unto all those who obey Him.
And it was Jesus who said: "Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:
He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock." Luke 6:47-48
Nah, The Gospel Apostle Paul preached is the same... Gospel that Christ's other Apostles preached. What those on men's Hyper-Dispensationalist movement have done is succumbed to a certain group of men who have created false traditions by fabricating a Scripture interpretation that is 'outside' God's Word.
Per the Book of Acts, and Paul's Epistles, Paul preached the Kingdom Gospel:
Acts 14:19-22; Acts 19:6-8; Acts 20:16-25; Acts 28:23; Acts 28:30-31; Romans 14:14; 1 Corinthians 4:19; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10; 1 Corinthians 15:24; 1 Corinthians 15:50; Galatians 5:21; Ephesians 5:5; Colossians 4:11; 1 Thessalonians 2:12; 2 Thessalonians 1:5.
The "mystery" tradition from men being pointing to in the OP is nothing but an idea from a certain group of men that try and isolate something Apostle Paul said in the following Scripture, and then attempt to create a whole new doctrine out of it that does not exist...
Rom 16:25-26
25 Now to Him That is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
KJV
Those men try and isolate that "my gospel" phrase as IF Paul was claiming a different Gospel than what the Apostles preached. That simply is not so, Paul preached the same Gospel of Jesus Christ that they preached, for there is only ONE Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Also, those men totally disregard that above "and by the scriptures of the prophets" phrase of Paul pointing to one of the sources... of the Gospel that he preached!
Paul didn't cover in that above Scripture that point about the Old Testament prophets having a part in that Gospel, but Paul does cover that point elsewhere in his Epistles.
And note to whom Jesus would choose Apostle Paul to take The Gospel to...
Lord Jesus said about Paul:
Acts 9:15
15 But the Lord said unto him, "Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto Me, to bear My name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:"
KJV
Thus Lord Jesus sent Apostle Paul to preach The one Gospel not only to Gentiles, but ALSO to the kings, and to the children of Israel! By that common sense ought to tell you easily that Lord Jesus sent Paul to preach the same Gospel to all three above groups.
Men's Hyper-Dispensationalist movement, is where those false ideas come from that try to claim that Paul preached another Gospel different than the Apostles. (also called Hyper-Grace movement.) They pack all sorts of teachings about 'grace' with it to trick the Biblically unlearned, just like they also do with man's false pre-trib rapture theory, which many of them also push.
Here is another Scripture example by Apostle Paul that they abuse, taking it out of its context...
Eph 3:1-6
3 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to youward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
KJV
Do you see what Paul said above about the "mystery" with that, "as it is now revealed unto His holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit"? Paul showed right there that to the other Apostles the "mystery" was ALSO REVEALED TO THEM. And what is the "mystery"??
Verse 6 above tells us; it is that Christ's Salvation would go to the Gentiles who believe also. In Old Testament times, that was not understood by God's prophets...
Did you not know brethren, that Apostle Peter taught about this "mystery" that Paul mentioned in his Epistles? and Peter showed how the Old Testament prophets who prophesied about it, searched the Scriptures about it, as they didn't yet understand it...
1 Peter 1:9-12
9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
10 Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
KJV
Brethren in Christ, do you even read... your Old Testament Books of God's prophets? Did you not know that God's prophet Isaiah was given to prophesy about Christ's crucifixion? (see Isaiah 53) And king David, who also was a called prophet of God, he also prophesied about Christ's crucifixion (See Psalms 22).
Thus it's like those men who came up with the Hyper-Dispensationalist, a.k.a. Hyper-Grace movement, failed to even read those Old Testament prophet witnesses about Christ's crucifixion, and then simply attempted to claim Apostle Paul was the only one it was revealed to. No, the "mystery" was revealed by God through His Old Testament prophets first, yet they didn't understand it when it was revealed to them. It would require Christ's actual 1st coming to die on the cross in order to openly reveal it, and Christ's Apostles, all of them, it was revealed to, not just Paul only.
If you want to learn the places in The Old Testament prophets where Christ's Salvation would also go to the Gentiles... here is a start. The Book of Isaiah has probably the most OT Bible prophecy about it, as the name Isaiah means 'Yah is Salvation': Isaiah 11:10; Isaiah 42:1-6; Isaiah 49:6; Isaiah 49:22; Isaiah 54:3; Isaiah 60:3-5; Isaiah 60:11; Isaiah 62:1-2.
Per the Book of Acts, and Paul's Epistles, Paul preached the Kingdom Gospel:
Acts 14:19-22; Acts 19:6-8; Acts 20:16-25; Acts 28:23; Acts 28:30-31; Romans 14:14; 1 Corinthians 4:19; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10; 1 Corinthians 15:24; 1 Corinthians 15:50; Galatians 5:21; Ephesians 5:5; Colossians 4:11; 1 Thessalonians 2:12; 2 Thessalonians 1:5.
The "mystery" tradition from men being pointing to in the OP is nothing but an idea from a certain group of men that try and isolate something Apostle Paul said in the following Scripture, and then attempt to create a whole new doctrine out of it that does not exist...
Rom 16:25-26
25 Now to Him That is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
KJV
Those men try and isolate that "my gospel" phrase as IF Paul was claiming a different Gospel than what the Apostles preached. That simply is not so, Paul preached the same Gospel of Jesus Christ that they preached, for there is only ONE Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Also, those men totally disregard that above "and by the scriptures of the prophets" phrase of Paul pointing to one of the sources... of the Gospel that he preached!
Paul didn't cover in that above Scripture that point about the Old Testament prophets having a part in that Gospel, but Paul does cover that point elsewhere in his Epistles.
And note to whom Jesus would choose Apostle Paul to take The Gospel to...
Lord Jesus said about Paul:
Acts 9:15
15 But the Lord said unto him, "Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto Me, to bear My name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:"
KJV
Thus Lord Jesus sent Apostle Paul to preach The one Gospel not only to Gentiles, but ALSO to the kings, and to the children of Israel! By that common sense ought to tell you easily that Lord Jesus sent Paul to preach the same Gospel to all three above groups.
Men's Hyper-Dispensationalist movement, is where those false ideas come from that try to claim that Paul preached another Gospel different than the Apostles. (also called Hyper-Grace movement.) They pack all sorts of teachings about 'grace' with it to trick the Biblically unlearned, just like they also do with man's false pre-trib rapture theory, which many of them also push.
Here is another Scripture example by Apostle Paul that they abuse, taking it out of its context...
Eph 3:1-6
3 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to youward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
KJV
Do you see what Paul said above about the "mystery" with that, "as it is now revealed unto His holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit"? Paul showed right there that to the other Apostles the "mystery" was ALSO REVEALED TO THEM. And what is the "mystery"??
Verse 6 above tells us; it is that Christ's Salvation would go to the Gentiles who believe also. In Old Testament times, that was not understood by God's prophets...
Did you not know brethren, that Apostle Peter taught about this "mystery" that Paul mentioned in his Epistles? and Peter showed how the Old Testament prophets who prophesied about it, searched the Scriptures about it, as they didn't yet understand it...
1 Peter 1:9-12
9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
10 Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
KJV
Brethren in Christ, do you even read... your Old Testament Books of God's prophets? Did you not know that God's prophet Isaiah was given to prophesy about Christ's crucifixion? (see Isaiah 53) And king David, who also was a called prophet of God, he also prophesied about Christ's crucifixion (See Psalms 22).
Thus it's like those men who came up with the Hyper-Dispensationalist, a.k.a. Hyper-Grace movement, failed to even read those Old Testament prophet witnesses about Christ's crucifixion, and then simply attempted to claim Apostle Paul was the only one it was revealed to. No, the "mystery" was revealed by God through His Old Testament prophets first, yet they didn't understand it when it was revealed to them. It would require Christ's actual 1st coming to die on the cross in order to openly reveal it, and Christ's Apostles, all of them, it was revealed to, not just Paul only.
If you want to learn the places in The Old Testament prophets where Christ's Salvation would also go to the Gentiles... here is a start. The Book of Isaiah has probably the most OT Bible prophecy about it, as the name Isaiah means 'Yah is Salvation': Isaiah 11:10; Isaiah 42:1-6; Isaiah 49:6; Isaiah 49:22; Isaiah 54:3; Isaiah 60:3-5; Isaiah 60:11; Isaiah 62:1-2.
-
4
- Show all
What I pointed out is the differences between the two Gospels.
Peter's Gospel was this:
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Paul's Gospel was this:
1 Corinthisna 15:2-4
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
To say there is no difference...that is the crux of all this. People out there are claiming there's no difference.
Really? How does one add to the greatest GIFT of all by going back to the Kingdom Gospel's requirement for repentance and water baptism? How does anyone add to what is UNMERITED by ANYTHING one may DO? That is the question they refuse to try and answer without throwing into the mix their brand of all that allegedly being "spiritual?"
Ephesians 2:5, 8
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, by grace ye are saved; ...
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Who in their right mind can say that one must earn that GIFT? There are those who do one or more "works" thinking that they've earned and/or secured that GIFT, which is completely counter-intuitive and absolutely violates the simplicity of the language used in scripture. Some even claim to follow James who said:
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
So, there are those today who think that by doing works beforehand, they THEN earn the gift of salvation, and even claim that faith is a "work."
Students of Theology 101 know better than that, but the armchair Christians who believe what their false teaching pastors tell them along this line never seem to think about the inconsistencies in that message, and therefore never challenge their false teaching pastors for leading so many astray. Those certificates on the walls of their office are no good for anything other than to warm their hands while burning those worthless pieces of paper when their preaching is so worthless.
The gracious and loving men behind pulpits, with hearts to serve the Lord in all truth as best they can, may read this and delve into the scriptures prayerfully, and I hope they do, teaching ONLY what is written without all the hyper-spiritual embellishment garbage. It's one thing to point at the parables whereby the Lord hid things from the pridefully wise, but quite another to also claim Paul misled the Churches with spiritual masking to the extent that his letters were cryptic, therefore needing deciphering by Cemetery trained pastors.
MM
Peter's Gospel was this:
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Paul's Gospel was this:
1 Corinthisna 15:2-4
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
To say there is no difference...that is the crux of all this. People out there are claiming there's no difference.
Really? How does one add to the greatest GIFT of all by going back to the Kingdom Gospel's requirement for repentance and water baptism? How does anyone add to what is UNMERITED by ANYTHING one may DO? That is the question they refuse to try and answer without throwing into the mix their brand of all that allegedly being "spiritual?"
Ephesians 2:5, 8
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, by grace ye are saved; ...
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Who in their right mind can say that one must earn that GIFT? There are those who do one or more "works" thinking that they've earned and/or secured that GIFT, which is completely counter-intuitive and absolutely violates the simplicity of the language used in scripture. Some even claim to follow James who said:
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
So, there are those today who think that by doing works beforehand, they THEN earn the gift of salvation, and even claim that faith is a "work."
Students of Theology 101 know better than that, but the armchair Christians who believe what their false teaching pastors tell them along this line never seem to think about the inconsistencies in that message, and therefore never challenge their false teaching pastors for leading so many astray. Those certificates on the walls of their office are no good for anything other than to warm their hands while burning those worthless pieces of paper when their preaching is so worthless.
The gracious and loving men behind pulpits, with hearts to serve the Lord in all truth as best they can, may read this and delve into the scriptures prayerfully, and I hope they do, teaching ONLY what is written without all the hyper-spiritual embellishment garbage. It's one thing to point at the parables whereby the Lord hid things from the pridefully wise, but quite another to also claim Paul misled the Churches with spiritual masking to the extent that his letters were cryptic, therefore needing deciphering by Cemetery trained pastors.
MM
What I pointed out is the differences between the two Gospels.
Peter's Gospel was this:
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Paul's Gospel was this:
1 Corinthisna 15:2-4
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
To say there is no difference...that is the crux of all this. People out there are claiming there's no difference.
Really? How does one add to the greatest GIFT of all by going back to the Kingdom Gospel's requirement for repentance and water baptism? How does anyone add to what is UNMERITED by ANYTHING one may DO? That is the question they refuse to try and answer without throwing into the mix their brand of all that allegedly being "spiritual?"
Ephesians 2:5, 8
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, by grace ye are saved; ...
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Who in their right mind can say that one must earn that GIFT? There are those who do one or more "works" thinking that they've earned and/or secured that GIFT, which is completely counter-intuitive and absolutely violates the simplicity of the language used in scripture. Some even claim to follow James who said:
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
So, there are those today who think that by doing works beforehand, they THEN earn the gift of salvation, and even claim that faith is a "work."
Students of Theology 101 know better than that, but the armchair Christians who believe what their false teaching pastors tell them along this line never seem to think about the inconsistencies in that message, and therefore never challenge their false teaching pastors for leading so many astray. Those certificates on the walls of their office are no good for anything other than to warm their hands while burning those worthless pieces of paper when their preaching is so worthless.
The gracious and loving men behind pulpits, with hearts to serve the Lord in all truth as best they can, may read this and delve into the scriptures prayerfully, and I hope they do, teaching ONLY what is written without all the hyper-spiritual embellishment garbage. It's one thing to point at the parables whereby the Lord hid things from the pridefully wise, but quite another to also claim Paul misled the Churches with spiritual masking to the extent that his letters were cryptic, therefore needing deciphering by Cemetery trained pastors.
MM
Peter's Gospel was this:
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Paul's Gospel was this:
1 Corinthisna 15:2-4
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
To say there is no difference...that is the crux of all this. People out there are claiming there's no difference.
Really? How does one add to the greatest GIFT of all by going back to the Kingdom Gospel's requirement for repentance and water baptism? How does anyone add to what is UNMERITED by ANYTHING one may DO? That is the question they refuse to try and answer without throwing into the mix their brand of all that allegedly being "spiritual?"
Ephesians 2:5, 8
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, by grace ye are saved; ...
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Who in their right mind can say that one must earn that GIFT? There are those who do one or more "works" thinking that they've earned and/or secured that GIFT, which is completely counter-intuitive and absolutely violates the simplicity of the language used in scripture. Some even claim to follow James who said:
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
So, there are those today who think that by doing works beforehand, they THEN earn the gift of salvation, and even claim that faith is a "work."
Students of Theology 101 know better than that, but the armchair Christians who believe what their false teaching pastors tell them along this line never seem to think about the inconsistencies in that message, and therefore never challenge their false teaching pastors for leading so many astray. Those certificates on the walls of their office are no good for anything other than to warm their hands while burning those worthless pieces of paper when their preaching is so worthless.
The gracious and loving men behind pulpits, with hearts to serve the Lord in all truth as best they can, may read this and delve into the scriptures prayerfully, and I hope they do, teaching ONLY what is written without all the hyper-spiritual embellishment garbage. It's one thing to point at the parables whereby the Lord hid things from the pridefully wise, but quite another to also claim Paul misled the Churches with spiritual masking to the extent that his letters were cryptic, therefore needing deciphering by Cemetery trained pastors.
MM
"I am not saying that this message is NOT portrayed in a higher resolution as time goes by, because it is."
Witnesses? What, pray tell, are you talking about?
Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
2 Timothy 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
Either Paul was an ago-maniac, or he received something that no other was shown until his conversion.
Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
Ephesians 3:3-4, 9
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) ...
9 And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
In case you are not aware, the biblical definition of "mystery" is "hidden wisdom."
1 Corinthians 2:7-8
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known [it], they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
So, you have ample evidence here for that revelation made to Paul, which he preached to all others so that they too would know and understand.
2 Peter 3:15-16
15 And account [that] the longsuffering of our Lord [is] salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
So, those who refuse to believe in the Gospel as preached by Paul, they wrest the scriptures to their own destruction, which is a sober warning issued by Peter himself..
MM
Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
2 Timothy 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
Either Paul was an ago-maniac, or he received something that no other was shown until his conversion.
Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
Ephesians 3:3-4, 9
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) ...
9 And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
In case you are not aware, the biblical definition of "mystery" is "hidden wisdom."
1 Corinthians 2:7-8
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known [it], they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
So, you have ample evidence here for that revelation made to Paul, which he preached to all others so that they too would know and understand.
2 Peter 3:15-16
15 And account [that] the longsuffering of our Lord [is] salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
So, those who refuse to believe in the Gospel as preached by Paul, they wrest the scriptures to their own destruction, which is a sober warning issued by Peter himself..
MM
Peter's Gospel was this:
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Paul's Gospel was this:
1 Corinthisna 15:2-4
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
To say there is no difference...that is the crux of all this. People out there are claiming there's no difference.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Paul's Gospel was this:
1 Corinthisna 15:2-4
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
To say there is no difference...that is the crux of all this. People out there are claiming there's no difference.
plucking one quip from Peter that encourages baptism and one from Paul that encourages belief, as though neither ever spoke of the other, is quite a deceptive attempt at persuasion.
the truth is that your arguments don't hold water.
Peter also preaches faith in God, not works:
1 Peter 1:5
.. who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
and Paul also teaches baptism:Acts 22:16
And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
-
1
- Show all
or these epistles were written decades after Christ ascended, by which time, just as Jesus Himself had foretold us, there were many false gospels being preached, and Paul was making sure the reader knew that what he and the other apostles were preaching was not to be confused with those false teachers.
.. which is historical fact btw
but you are telling us that according to Paul, Jesus and all His apostles are anathema, false teachers.
some moxy ya got there.
.. which is historical fact btw
but you are telling us that according to Paul, Jesus and all His apostles are anathema, false teachers.
some moxy ya got there.
please note that it says "we"
that's plural.
who does the Holy Spirit mean by "we"?
wow, and is that Paul once again nonchalantly mentioning baptism as though it is something taken for granted among believers?
... but according to your pet theory, Christ is divided??! and Paul never mentions baptism?
spoiler alert: the very next verse says Paul himself baptized converts. why would he do that, wow
that's plural.
who does the Holy Spirit mean by "we"?
1 Corinthians 1:1
Paul, called [to be] an apostle of Jesus Christ
we = the apostles. 1 Corinthians 1:12-13
Now I say this, that each of you says, "I am of Paul," or "I am of Apollos," or "I am of Cephas," or "I am of Christ." Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?
for example, Peter. wow, and is that Paul once again nonchalantly mentioning baptism as though it is something taken for granted among believers?
... but according to your pet theory, Christ is divided??! and Paul never mentions baptism?
spoiler alert: the very next verse says Paul himself baptized converts. why would he do that, wow
-
1
- Show all
true they prove nothing but some of them have studies scripture all their lives and have value. I want you all who follow Paul to consider seriously what Jesus was teaching, I want you all to understand that Christ is the only way to eternal life and that all he said is sacred his words are the words of GOD and have precedence to any other writhing in the bible, If someone's doctrine is different of Christ's or if some elements were removed or added it is probably faulty.
in the O.T. there is a test for Prophets. Paul's wording is suggesting he is a prophet. in certain of his writings as he says So the lord spoke...
See the test in Deuteronomy 13, it is used to know if a prophet is true or not. I urge everyone to use diligence and discernment.
Yes Paul's words have some value but people put him equal or above Christ and seldom quote from Jesus but mostly from Paul.
Don't put all your eggs in the same basket, the risk is too great.
in the O.T. there is a test for Prophets. Paul's wording is suggesting he is a prophet. in certain of his writings as he says So the lord spoke...
- 1 Thessalonians 4:15 - "For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep."
- 1 Corinthians 7:10 - "To the married I give this charge (not I, but the Lord): the wife should not separate from her husband."
- Galatians 1:11-12 - "For I would have you know, brothers, that the gospel that was preached by me is not man's gospel. For I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ."
See the test in Deuteronomy 13, it is used to know if a prophet is true or not. I urge everyone to use diligence and discernment.
Yes Paul's words have some value but people put him equal or above Christ and seldom quote from Jesus but mostly from Paul.
Don't put all your eggs in the same basket, the risk is too great.
I don't think anyone here was questioning that Christ Jesus is the One and only way. However, when you state something about "follow Paul," that's a false charge, because it is the very words and teachings of Christ GIVEN to Paul directly that we follow, today. The Lord has ever reason and right to make changes to the elements of salvation.
Under the Law, the Jews and the Gentiles who became Jews all found forgiveness for sins through obedience to the sacrifices and the priesthood of men. The kingdom Gospel demanded repentance and water baptism, where the Gospel of Grace laid down no more requirement than to simply believe in the crucifixion, burial and resurrection of Christ on the third day. Period. Paul spoke precisely what Christ had revealed to him to preach as the Gospel of Grace.
Please stop with the false accusations. They do not at all cause anyone to look upon you as having any integrity whatsoever. Nobody here is placing Paul on the same level of Christ. If you're going to accuse us of that, then you may as well say the same about the other apostles who also taught what Christ had instructed them. They ALL taught ONLY what Christ had taught to them.
That you have not yet begun to rightly divide the word of truth within scripture, that should point a light of glaring revelation to you that some serious study is due on your part. The Lord revealed the Law and adherence to the Law through His prophets, and I don't see you claiming that the Jews placed the prophets on the same level of as the Lord. Come on!
These red herring claims of yours only highlight your lack of understanding about what we're saying in here.
Paul claimed ownership of the Gospel of Grace because he was tasked with taking that Gospel to the Gentile world, which has always been MUCH larger in population than the Jewish nation itself, and that still holds true today.
Most Jews are still scattered all across the world. They have not yet all gathered together into Israel. We are all over the world still, not yet having been drawn back into Israel by the Lord's drawing upon us. I'm Israeli, but I'm also, first of all, a member of the body of Christ. The unbelieving Jews, my brethren, will one day soon feel that tug upon their hearts to return to Israel, but that will not happen until the Lord is ready by His own council.
We Messianics are in the body of Christ, and some of us choose to rightly divide the word of truth rather than to continue onward into the falsehoods of intermixing the Kingdom Gospel with the Gospel of Grace. That's nothing but confusion worse than trying to mix water with oil. James taught that man is justified by works, Paul taught that man is justified by faith. They do not mix except in the muddled and silly claims to a world of "spiritual" things that they don't even understand. Making things spiritual doesn't magically intermix what doesn't belong within the same dispensation after the former has been put on hold, and the latter becoming the one and only means to the same end.
MM
Under the Law, the Jews and the Gentiles who became Jews all found forgiveness for sins through obedience to the sacrifices and the priesthood of men. The kingdom Gospel demanded repentance and water baptism, where the Gospel of Grace laid down no more requirement than to simply believe in the crucifixion, burial and resurrection of Christ on the third day. Period. Paul spoke precisely what Christ had revealed to him to preach as the Gospel of Grace.
Please stop with the false accusations. They do not at all cause anyone to look upon you as having any integrity whatsoever. Nobody here is placing Paul on the same level of Christ. If you're going to accuse us of that, then you may as well say the same about the other apostles who also taught what Christ had instructed them. They ALL taught ONLY what Christ had taught to them.
That you have not yet begun to rightly divide the word of truth within scripture, that should point a light of glaring revelation to you that some serious study is due on your part. The Lord revealed the Law and adherence to the Law through His prophets, and I don't see you claiming that the Jews placed the prophets on the same level of as the Lord. Come on!
These red herring claims of yours only highlight your lack of understanding about what we're saying in here.
Paul claimed ownership of the Gospel of Grace because he was tasked with taking that Gospel to the Gentile world, which has always been MUCH larger in population than the Jewish nation itself, and that still holds true today.
Most Jews are still scattered all across the world. They have not yet all gathered together into Israel. We are all over the world still, not yet having been drawn back into Israel by the Lord's drawing upon us. I'm Israeli, but I'm also, first of all, a member of the body of Christ. The unbelieving Jews, my brethren, will one day soon feel that tug upon their hearts to return to Israel, but that will not happen until the Lord is ready by His own council.
We Messianics are in the body of Christ, and some of us choose to rightly divide the word of truth rather than to continue onward into the falsehoods of intermixing the Kingdom Gospel with the Gospel of Grace. That's nothing but confusion worse than trying to mix water with oil. James taught that man is justified by works, Paul taught that man is justified by faith. They do not mix except in the muddled and silly claims to a world of "spiritual" things that they don't even understand. Making things spiritual doesn't magically intermix what doesn't belong within the same dispensation after the former has been put on hold, and the latter becoming the one and only means to the same end.
MM
-
1
- Show all
