I did not ask for a verse to contradict Scripture. Get honest. I did not even mention 1st John.
What Does "Born of Water" Mean?
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Here is what you wrote:
"Can you supply a verse that contradicts what was said?"
This is all you wrote.
What am I missing?
I know what I said. I said nothing about first John which you claimed I did. Get honest.. there was other things said besides that.
Okay, but what was it that you wanted me to supply a scripture to contradict?
It was your question I supplied a fair answer.
It is you who is being vague.
Just restate your question and I will try to answer it.
I don’t believe they contradict one another at all.
Isn’t everyone definitive? Who is left out of everyone?
1 John 5:1 makes a statement that cannot be true if the water in John 3:5 refers to the immersion of our physical bodies into water. There are other plausible meanings, so why not consider them?
I don't believe it was a fair answer at all because you lied about what I said.
I did not mean underline that but I'm on my phone and sometimes it is difficult to push right icon. I'm also at work so I can't respond in a timely manner right now
What did I lie about???
Stop being so vague.
I gave you a fair and proper answer. You on the other hand have replied with slander.
Tell me what I got wrong and I will respond.
You do not make any sense, You say she is vague, then you say you gave a fair answer.
If she was so vague, how could you even answer the question at all unless you got more clarification?
Actually you did no such things as I showed above. she never mentioned 1st john.. yet you came back at her as if she did.. she continually asks you why you are mentioning 1 john. and you continually ignore her question.. so who is really slandering here?
She has multiple times..
Oh, yes, yes, I do, yet there is in truth only one Lord, One Faith and one Baptism, the Baptism of Father, the Holy Spirit to teach us truth, at least me born new not seeing as did in first birth here on earth. God just loves you too. start with God between God and you as the premise just loving you, then one will begin to see reality as born new. no longer alive to first birth of flesh and blood, caught up in sins, trying to not sin, which not one other person but Son, Jesus can keep from you from sin, when anyone are alive in thier flesh and blood nature still
Born again is real as said in John 3 to Nicodemus as man makes it out to be this and or that.
Amazing
John the Baptist's Job was to Baptize Jesus into the ministry of the Levites. As the Levites, would not have ever done that. Yet John Wass a Levite, and it was proper for him to do as led to Dom by God Father of Son Jesus for us was it not?
Your decision, not mine thanks
.
The water Jesus spoke of in John 3:5 isn't for bathing, rather, it's for
drinking.
● John 4:14 . .Whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed,
the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to
eternal life.
In other words: the water Jesus spoke of isn't in the ground, in the clouds,
nor in a river or a lake because it isn't natural H20, rather, it's supernatural.
_
The water Jesus spoke of in John 3:5 isn't for bathing, rather, it's for
drinking.
● John 4:14 . .Whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed,
the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to
eternal life.
In other words: the water Jesus spoke of isn't in the ground, in the clouds,
nor in a river or a lake because it isn't natural H20, rather, it's supernatural.
_
The following verse pertains to born again Christians: "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;" 1 Peter 2:9
If you will recall BOTH Aaron, representative of Jesus, AND his sons had to be consecrated into the priesthood. The priestly garment was placed upon them AFTER they were washed with water (baptism) and anointed with oil. (Holy Ghost) This is a foreshadow of what is later revealed in the New Testament.
"And Moses said unto the congregation, This is the thing which the Lord commanded to be done.
And Moses brought Aaron and his sons, and washed them with water. And he put upon him the coat, and girded him with the girdle, and clothed him with the robe, and put the ephod upon him, and he girded him with the curious girdle of the ephod, and bound it unto him therewith.
And he put the breastplate upon him: also he put in the breastplate the Urim and the Thummim.
And he put the mitre upon his head; also upon the mitre, even upon his forefront, did he put the golden plate, the holy crown; as the Lord commanded Moses.
And Moses took the anointing oil, and anointed the tabernacle and all that was therein, and sanctified them.
And he sprinkled thereof upon the altar seven times, and anointed the altar and all his vessels, both the laver and his foot, to sanctify them.
And he poured of the anointing oil upon Aaron's head, and anointed him, to sanctify him.
And Moses brought Aaron's sons, and put coats upon them, and girded them with girdles, and put bonnets upon them; as the Lord commanded Moses."
"And he brought the other ram, the ram of consecration: and Aaron and his sons laid their hands upon the head of the ram.
And he slew it; and Moses took of the blood of it, and put it upon the tip of Aaron's right ear, and upon the thumb of his right hand, and upon the great toe of his right foot.
And he brought Aaron's sons, and Moses put of the blood upon the tip of their right ear, and upon the thumbs of their right hands, and upon the great toes of their right feet: and Moses sprinkled the blood upon the altar round about." (Leviticus 8:1-13, 23-24)
.
Jesus said that folks need to drink his water one time and one time only
because it has eternal effects rather than temporary.
● John 4:13-14 . . Jesus answered her: Everyone who drinks this water will
be thirsty again, but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst.
Jesus' water is available to anyone, and to everyone, who wants it.
● Rev 21:6-7 . . To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from
the spring of the water of life.
_
Jesus said that folks need to drink his water one time and one time only
because it has eternal effects rather than temporary.
● John 4:13-14 . . Jesus answered her: Everyone who drinks this water will
be thirsty again, but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst.
Jesus' water is available to anyone, and to everyone, who wants it.
● Rev 21:6-7 . . To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from
the spring of the water of life.
_
What is so vague about explicitly articulating the fact that I made NO mention of the John verse?
I expressly told you there were other things in the post besides the verse. But in your mind I could only have been referring to
that. I most certainly did not ask you to "supply a verse that contradicts" 1st John 5:1 and that is exactly what you said I did.
None of what you have said to me is fair. Just more of the same. And since I was not referring to the John verse, it should not be
difficult for you to understand that I was referring to the others things said in the post. It should not be, but apparently it is.
Jesus makes a clear distinction between water and Spirit in the verse:
"Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. " John 3:5
The water reference in John 4:14 is metaphorical; ie, the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit flows out from an individual just as water from a faucet.
.
● John 3:4 . . How can a man be born when he is old? Surely he cannot
enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born.
There would be no spiritual advantage starting all over again from scratch
as a normal h.sapiens because we'd still have a normal human's nature;
which we know from personal experience, and from Gen 3:22, Rom 7:15-24,
and Rom 8:7-8, normal human nature has some serious defects.
● John 3:6 . .That which is born of the flesh is flesh.
That simply wouldn't do at all because we'd be right back to square-one. No;
it would be much better to start all over again from scratch as a somewhat
divine h.sapiens instead of a normal h.sapiens.
● John 3:6 . . That which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
In other words: the birth about which Jesus spoke takes place in the very
core of one's being, and it's done by the hand of God rather than via rites
and/or rituals.
NOTE: I should emphasize that the birth about which Jesus spoke isn't optional,
no; it's required.
● John 3:7 . .You must be born again.
_
● John 3:4 . . How can a man be born when he is old? Surely he cannot
enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born.
There would be no spiritual advantage starting all over again from scratch
as a normal h.sapiens because we'd still have a normal human's nature;
which we know from personal experience, and from Gen 3:22, Rom 7:15-24,
and Rom 8:7-8, normal human nature has some serious defects.
● John 3:6 . .That which is born of the flesh is flesh.
That simply wouldn't do at all because we'd be right back to square-one. No;
it would be much better to start all over again from scratch as a somewhat
divine h.sapiens instead of a normal h.sapiens.
● John 3:6 . . That which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
In other words: the birth about which Jesus spoke takes place in the very
core of one's being, and it's done by the hand of God rather than via rites
and/or rituals.
NOTE: I should emphasize that the birth about which Jesus spoke isn't optional,
no; it's required.
● John 3:7 . .You must be born again.
_
.
One day I asked an experienced Jehovah's Witness at my job if he was born
of the Spirit. He answered no; and added that he didn't expect to undergo
the Spirit birth in either this life or the next because his hope is a kingdom
on Earth rather than up in Heaven.
The JW was somehow unaware that Jesus' discussion with Nicodemus wasn't
relative to a kingdom above, rather; to a kingdom below.
● John 3:12 . . . If I have told you earthly things and yet you do not believe,
how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?
It's both tragic and ironic that the Watchtower Society's rank and file
missionaries go worldwide advertising a kingdom that they themselves will
never be allowed to enter-- not because they didn't work hard enough to
deserve it, but simply because they were led to believe themselves exempt
from the Spirit birth.
_
One day I asked an experienced Jehovah's Witness at my job if he was born
of the Spirit. He answered no; and added that he didn't expect to undergo
the Spirit birth in either this life or the next because his hope is a kingdom
on Earth rather than up in Heaven.
The JW was somehow unaware that Jesus' discussion with Nicodemus wasn't
relative to a kingdom above, rather; to a kingdom below.
● John 3:12 . . . If I have told you earthly things and yet you do not believe,
how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?
It's both tragic and ironic that the Watchtower Society's rank and file
missionaries go worldwide advertising a kingdom that they themselves will
never be allowed to enter-- not because they didn't work hard enough to
deserve it, but simply because they were led to believe themselves exempt
from the Spirit birth.
_
I gave her a fair answer to her question.
She responded with vagueness and slander:
"I don't believe it was a fair answer at all because you lied about what I said."
"I know what I said. I said nothing about first John which you claimed I did. Get honest.. there was other things said besides that."
"That is not what I said. I shall ignore the rest of your blather in that post."
This is Magenta's question:
"Can you supply a verse that contradicts what was said?"
This is what was said:
“Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.”
1 John 5:1 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/1jn.5.1.ESV
When someone believes that Jesus is the Christ they have already been born again according to this verse.
This was my fair response:
"You want me to "supply a verse that contradicts" 1st John 5:1???
Why would you want such a thing?
We as Christians are not to negate one scripture with another.
It is JBTN who is attempting to use 1st John 5:1 as a all-encompassing verse that would make Acts 2:38 and others null and void.
There is no need to contradict 1st John 5:1, the verse stands true unless you add a grammatical definitive to change its scope."
Again, what is wrong with my answer?
It is I who is making the effort to properly respond to a question.
It is Magenta who simply issues vague responses pertaining to my answer.
Not sure I fully understand your comment. The "one baptism" which is unto salvation is the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Water baptism IS NOT required as part of the salvation process. The thief on the cross was not water baptized. Countless numbers of people have been "saved" under battlefield conditions through the baptism of the Holy Spirit without being water baptized. Just as many in Emergency Room/Hospital situations who repented and confessed the Name of Jesus have been saved without water baptism. There are other situations where water baptism plays no role in ones salvation.
Water baptism IS NOT, IS NOT required for salvation!!!!
Not from what I saw
I thought she was quite clear. she asked you why you would mention 1 john, when she spoke nothing of John. You still as of this time, have refused to answer that question.
But that is not what she wants you to supply a verse thjat says somethign else about.
it is what was said by the user " When someone believes that Jesus is the Christ they have already been born again "
if she wanted you to supply a verse that contradicts 1 John, she wpould have said, 1 john. she did not. She knows what 1 John says, and she agrees with it..
However. by her question to you,. which you still have not answered, she also agrees with what the poster (@JBTN )said about that verse. which is why she asked you. can you find another verse that contradicts what was said.
sometimes you need to stop back. and instead of trying to defend yourself. get clarification of what the person was asking.. You assumed something in error. and keep running from it and blame shift by attacking the one who is calling you out for misrepresenting what she said
she did not ask you about a scripture
it does not make acts 2: 38 void. Now your interpretation of acts 2: 38 (which ius in error) would make 1 John 5 to be in error. you put them in contradiction to each other. and appose each other.
I agree. But your interpretation of acts 2 contradicts 1 john 5.. why can't you see it? they both can;t be right.. In fact. this is how you should have answered her question. in your view. Acts 2: 38 contradicts "what was said"
You misunderstood her. continue to misunderstand her. and then attack and falsly accuse her