Gods will vs mans free will

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
R

Rufus

Well-known member
#601
Feb 17, 2024
2,236
237
63
#601
cv5 said:
Wow. Of course Judas was not saved. He was never saved. He was a fraud from the beginning.
And ONLY JUDAS is described is such a way that no other person in existence has ever been described.

Jhn 6:70
Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

Jhn 13:2
And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray him;
Jhn 13:27
And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.

Jhn 17:12
While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

BTW....Jesus LOVED Judas-Satan. With a perfect love. As evidenced by the giving of the sop.
Just like He loves Hillary and Joe and Obama.
Click to expand...
You err and do not know the scriptures. How 'bout these three passage for starters:


Ps 5:4-6
4 You are not a God who takes pleasure in evil;
with you the wicked cannot dwell.
5 The arrogant cannot stand in your presence;
you hate all who do wrong.
6 You destroy those who tell lies;
bloodthirsty and deceitful men
the LORD abhors.
NIV

And,

Ps 11:5
5 The LORD examines the righteous,
but the wicked and those who love violence
his soul hates.
NIV

And,

Ps 95:10-11
10 "For forty years I loathed that generation,
And said they are a people who err in their heart,
And they do not know My ways.
11 "Therefore I swore in My anger,
Truly they shall not enter into My rest."
NASB

As John Gill in his commentary rightly said:

All men are not the objects of God's love, only a special people, whom he has chosen in Christ; for whom he has given his Son, when they were sinners and enemies; whom he quickens and calls by his grace, justifies, pardons, and accepts in Christ; and whom he causes to love him; these he loves with an everlasting and unchangeable love, and in a free and sovereign way, without any regard to any motive or condition in them. (John Gill, The New John Gill Exposition of the Entire Bible, Commentary on Hebrews 12:6, Source)

You should consider getting on the same page as the Author of Scripture.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#602
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
#602
JohnRH said:
I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; 2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. 1 Tim 2:1-6 (KJV)

To obey this exhortation, you would have to pray for all men; because there is no clue here of how to extract "certain men" from all men in this context. The "all men" under consideration here is all men.
Click to expand...
Saved=delivered. These verses in Timothy are not referencing eternally saved, but are referencing a deliverance from preaching a false doctrine. There is a deliverance here in time when a child of God comes unto a knowledge of the truth
 
R

Rufus

Well-known member
#603
Feb 17, 2024
2,236
237
63
#603
JohnRH said:
I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; 2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. 1 Tim 2:1-6 (KJV)

To obey this exhortation, you would have to pray for all men; because there is no clue here of how to extract "certain men" from all men in this context. The "all men" under consideration here is all men.
Click to expand...
Nonsense! Your interpretation is out of context. The "all men" Paul defines: the Gentiles. Therefore, "all men" is used in the limited sense, since the context omits the Jews.
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#605
Nov 20, 2018
22,621
8,184
113
#605
Rufus said:
You err and do not know the scriptures. How 'bout these three passage for starters:


Ps 5:4-6
4 You are not a God who takes pleasure in evil;
with you the wicked cannot dwell.
5 The arrogant cannot stand in your presence;
you hate all who do wrong.
6 You destroy those who tell lies;
bloodthirsty and deceitful men
the LORD abhors.
NIV

And,

Ps 11:5
5 The LORD examines the righteous,
but the wicked and those who love violence
his soul hates.
NIV

And,

Ps 95:10-11
10 "For forty years I loathed that generation,
And said they are a people who err in their heart,
And they do not know My ways.
11 "Therefore I swore in My anger,
Truly they shall not enter into My rest."
NASB

As John Gill in his commentary rightly said:

All men are not the objects of God's love, only a special people, whom he has chosen in Christ; for whom he has given his Son, when they were sinners and enemies; whom he quickens and calls by his grace, justifies, pardons, and accepts in Christ; and whom he causes to love him; these he loves with an everlasting and unchangeable love, and in a free and sovereign way, without any regard to any motive or condition in them. (John Gill, The New John Gill Exposition of the Entire Bible, Commentary on Hebrews 12:6, Source)

You should consider getting on the same page as the Author of Scripture.
Click to expand...
I intend on springing as many as I can from your Calvinist prison.
God is blameless for the damnation of men and angels. Despite your insistence.
And He will be glorified for his free gift given without reservation to all men.

https://christianchat.com/threads/gods-will-vs-mans-free-will.216406/post-5376951

Calvinism has GOD CHOOSING to send everyone He "doesn't want" into the eternal lake of fire. By not choosing them for salvation.
God gets all the BLAME and none of the GLORY for true salvation. Because true salvation is not FORCED, coerced, nor imposed.

But in fact, God wills that every man be saved. However MEN CHOOSE to ***deny/turn down/not believe/not examine and prove*** the salvation offered and thereby JOIN their father Satan in the lake of fire. Of their own free will. MEN CHOOSE to damn themselves.

How do we know this? Reading Romans ch1 is how.
Do the Calvinists reject all of this, where WILLFULLY unbelieving men are to blame?
Yes they do. And consequently, God gets the blame for the damnation of men.

BTW, God ALSO has a will. He ALSO has freedom to do things. And God is FREE to abandon men to their lusts if He so chooses.
Is God at fault for abandoning men to their lusts? You tell me.

God’s Wrath on Unrighteousness

18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
19because what may be known of God is manifest in THEM, for God has shown it to THEM.
20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, ***so that THEY are without excuse,***
21because, ***although THEY knew God***, THEY did not (CHOOSE TO) glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in THEIR thoughts, and THEIR foolish hearts were darkened.
22Professing to be wise, THEY became fools,
23and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
24***Therefore*** God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves,
25who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26***For this reason*** God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
28And even as THEY did not ***like*** (to test, examine, prove, scrutinize (to see whether a thing is genuine or not) to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;
29being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers,
30backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful;
32who, ***Knowing*** the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
 
phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#606
Feb 12, 2009
8,345
2,156
113
#606
cv5 said:
Calvinism has GOD CHOOSING to send everyone He "doesn't want" into the eternal lake of fire. By not choosing them for salvation.
God gets all the BLAME and none of the GLORY for true salvation. Because true salvation is not FORCED, coerced, nor imposed.

But in fact, God wills that every man be saved. However MEN CHOOSE to ***deny/turn down/not believe/not examine and prove*** the salvation offered and thereby JOIN their father Satan in the lake of fire. Of their own free will. MEN CHOOSE to damn themselves.

How do we know this? Reading Romans ch1 is how.
Do the Calvinists reject all of this? Yes they do. And consequently, God gets the blame for the damnation of men.

BTW, God ALSO has a will. He ALSO has freedom to do things. And God is FREE to abandon men to their lusts if He so chooses.
Is God at fault for abandoning men to their lusts? You tell me.

God’s Wrath on Unrighteousness

18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
19because what may be known of God is manifest in THEM, for God has shown it to THEM.
20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, ***so that THEY are without excuse,***
21because, ***although THEY knew God***, THEY did not (CHOOSE TO) glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in THEIR thoughts, and THEIR foolish hearts were darkened.
22Professing to be wise, THEY became fools,
23and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
24***Therefore*** God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves,
25who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26***For this reason*** God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
28And even as THEY did not ***like*** (to test, examine, prove, scrutinize (to see whether a thing is genuine or not) to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;
29being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers,
30backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful;
32who, ***Knowing*** the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
Click to expand...


Hi cv5,

Thanks for an overview of what you believe, but i was actually looking for an answer to the question ' what is Calvinism'.

I can only assume you actually don't know. Sometimes it is wise not to argue against or make accusations about something to which you don't know anything about. Have a blessed day.
 
R

Rufus

Well-known member
#607
Feb 17, 2024
2,236
237
63
#607
cv5 said:
I intend on springing as many as I can from your Calvinist prison.
God is blameless for the damnation of men and angels. Despite your insistence.
And He will be glorified for his free gift given without reservation to all men.

https://christianchat.com/threads/gods-will-vs-mans-free-will.216406/post-5376951

Calvinism has GOD CHOOSING to send everyone He "doesn't want" into the eternal lake of fire. By not choosing them for salvation.
God gets all the BLAME and none of the GLORY for true salvation. Because true salvation is not FORCED, coerced, nor imposed.

But in fact, God wills that every man be saved. However MEN CHOOSE to ***deny/turn down/not believe/not examine and prove*** the salvation offered and thereby JOIN their father Satan in the lake of fire. Of their own free will. MEN CHOOSE to damn themselves.

How do we know this? Reading Romans ch1 is how.
Do the Calvinists reject all of this, where WILLFULLY unbelieving men are to blame?
Yes they do. And consequently, God gets the blame for the damnation of men.

BTW, God ALSO has a will. He ALSO has freedom to do things. And God is FREE to abandon men to their lusts if He so chooses.
Is God at fault for abandoning men to their lusts? You tell me.

God’s Wrath on Unrighteousness

18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
19because what may be known of God is manifest in THEM, for God has shown it to THEM.
20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, ***so that THEY are without excuse,***
21because, ***although THEY knew God***, THEY did not (CHOOSE TO) glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in THEIR thoughts, and THEIR foolish hearts were darkened.
22Professing to be wise, THEY became fools,
23and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
24***Therefore*** God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves,
25who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26***For this reason*** God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
28And even as THEY did not ***like*** (to test, examine, prove, scrutinize (to see whether a thing is genuine or not) to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;
29being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers,
30backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful;
32who, ***Knowing*** the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
Click to expand...
What does all your windy verbiage have to do with the FACT that God does not love each and every person in the world? That God hates the sinner as well as his sin!?

And you have it all wrong about God, as usual! He condemns those who don't want him! It is God's just prerogative to leave men in their sins which they dearly love, and to lovingly, mercifully and graciously save those whom he has raised from the dead so that they are able to repent of their sins and believe the gospel. Have you never read:

Rom 9:14-21
14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses,

"I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."

16 It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

19 One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?" 20 But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?'" 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?
NIV

So, tell me: Why do you rail against the Potter's prerogative to make two different lumps of clay our of one? You think God is stealing your thunder? Stealing what "rightfully" belongs to man?

P.S. But I do agree with you that God is blameless for the condemnation of the fallen angels and fallen men, just as he is blameless for choosing to make to make some pottery for noble uses and other pottery for common use. After all, God did not cause anyone to sin in his universe.
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#608
Nov 20, 2018
22,621
8,184
113
#608
phil36 said:
Hi cv5,

Thanks for an overview of what you believe, but i was actually looking for an answer to the question ' what is Calvinism'.

I can only assume you actually don't know. Sometimes it is wise not to argue against or make accusations about something to which you don't know anything about. Have a blessed day.
Click to expand...
I know exactly what Calvinism teaches. And the devastating implications.
So I advise you to go pick up your own manna and find out.

It could take years.
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#609
Nov 20, 2018
22,621
8,184
113
#609
Rufus said:
What does all your windy verbiage have to do with the FACT that God does not love each and every person in the world?
Click to expand...
That is a lie from the pit of hell. God has a perfect love for everyone. And would GENUINELY have all men to be saved.
And Jesus weeps for all those ISRAELITES who choose to reject Him.

Luk 19:41
And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,
Luk 19:42
Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.

===================================================================================================

BTW, Jesus loves Judas-Satan as well. Absalom is a type of the AC and Satan.
Of course, you have failed to understand this.

David here is a type of Christ of course.

2Sa 19:4
But the king covered his face, and the king cried with a loud voice, O my son Absalom, O Absalom, my son, my son!

Jhn 13:26
Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon.

=========================================================================================================

And you say that God hates the unbelieving Jews do you? That is a Satanic lie as well.
And yes, this is a tribulation statement. And yes, you do not believe in the full and final BLESSED redemption
of the Nation Israel (by the efficacity of the New Covenant) either, nor of the pre-trib rapture of the Church.

Bummer being you.

Rom 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Rom 11:26
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Rom 11:27
For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Rom 11:28
As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
 
R

Rufus

Well-known member
#610
Feb 17, 2024
2,236
237
63
#610
cv5 said:
That is a lie from the pit of hell. God has a perfect love for everyone. And would GENUINELY have all men to be saved.
And Jesus weeps for all those ISRAELITES who choose to reject Him.

Luk 19:41
And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,
Luk 19:42
Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.

===================================================================================================

BTW, Jesus loves Judas-Satan as well. Absalom is a type of the AC and Satan.
Of course, you have failed to understand this.

David here is a type of Christ of course.

2Sa 19:4
But the king covered his face, and the king cried with a loud voice, O my son Absalom, O Absalom, my son, my son!

Jhn 13:26
Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon.

=========================================================================================================

And you say that God hates the unbelieving Jews do you? That is a Satanic lie as well.
And yes, this is a tribulation statement. And yes, you do not believe in the full and final BLESSED redemption
of the Nation Israel (by the efficacity of the New Covenant) either, nor of the pre-trib rapture of the Church.

Bummer being you.

Rom 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Rom 11:26
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Rom 11:27
For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Rom 11:28
As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes
Click to expand...
A "lie from the pit of hell", you say? So you're calling the Holy Spirit who inspired the Word of God a liar? There truly is no Fear of God before your eyes, is there? What parts of Pss 5:5; 11:5-6; 95:10-11 don't you understand?

Would more supporting passages help? (Rhetorical question.)
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#611
Nov 20, 2018
22,621
8,184
113
#611
Rufus said:
A "lie from the pit of hell", you say? So you're calling the Holy Spirit who inspired the Word of God a liar?
Click to expand...
Satan hates the Jews and also wants to see all men damned.
So you are in some very bad company.

Bummer being you.
 
phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#612
Feb 12, 2009
8,345
2,156
113
#612
cv5 said:
I know exactly what Calvinism teaches. And the devastating implications.
So I advise you to go pick up your own manna and find out.

It could take years.
Click to expand...

The problem is i wasn't asking for your view of why you think Calvinism is wrong or any of any perceived implications.

I was asking what is 'Calvinism'? Not whether you believe it right or wrong.

Maybe my question wasn't clear, so apologies if it wasn't.
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#613
Nov 20, 2018
22,621
8,184
113
#613
phil36 said:
The problem is i wasn't asking for your view of why you think Calvinism is wrong or any of any perceived implications.

I was asking what is 'Calvinism'? Not whether you believe it right or wrong.

Maybe my question wasn't clear, so apologies if it wasn't.
Click to expand...
Calvinism is a hodge-podge of heresies that essentially accuse God of being the author of evil, the origin of evil, the cause of evil.
Calvinism teaches that God is an all-powerful cosmic tyrant, and He has not endowed his creation with free will aka true life.
Calvinism espouses that humans are soulless mindless robots, who He created for the lake of fire except those who won the book of life lottery that is a rigged casino that only God operates. Think of a cosmic Logan's run scenario.

Which is a repeating the lie of Satan. A series of false accusations by which he has deceived 1/3 of the angels.
Eve was deceived as well......but she REPENTED and confessed the actual truth about God at her trial.

In the book of Job, Satan again accuses God of running a rigged casino. God however is JUSTIFIED by the FREE WILL decision of Job to worship Him.
 
phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#614
Feb 12, 2009
8,345
2,156
113
#614
cv5 said:
Calvinism is a hodge-podge of heresies that essentially accuse God of being the author of evil, the origin of evil, the cause of evil.
Calvinism teaches that God is an all-powerful cosmic tyrant, and He has not endowed his creation with free will aka true life.
Calvinism espouses that humans are soulless mindless robots, who He created for the lake of fire except those who won the book of life lottery that is a rigged casino that only God operates. Think of a cosmic Logan's run scenario.

Which is a repeating the lie of Satan. A series of false accusations by which he has deceived 1/3 of the angels.
Eve was deceived as well......but she REPENTED and confessed the actual truth about God at her trial.

In the book of Job, Satan again accuses God of running a rigged casino. God however is JUSTIFIED by the FREE WILL decision of Job to worship Him.
Click to expand...

Hi cv5,

Interesting comments you make, is it really true... Wow.. Now you have me intrigued.

These comments caught my eye:-

Calvinism -

"accuse God of being the author of evil, the origin of evil, the cause of evil."

" espouses that humans are soulless mindless robots"

And eapexially this claim you have made :-

"Calvinism teaches that God is an all-powerful cosmic tyrant"

I've never heard a calvinist say those things, can you provide references? Are you being honest in presenting what Calvinism is and what you have said it teaches?
 
R

Rufus

Well-known member
#615
Feb 17, 2024
2,236
237
63
#615
cv5 said:
Satan hates the Jews and also wants to see all men damned.
So you are in some very bad company.

Bummer being you.
Click to expand...
So...in your world those three passages in the Psalms don't exist? You summarily dismiss them because they don't support your lie?

And here's another newsflash for you: Not only does God hate sinners but his agape love conditional, which is perfectly logical. But you don't believe this either, do you?
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#616
Nov 20, 2018
22,621
8,184
113
#616
phil36 said:
Hi cv5,

Interesting comments you make, is it really true... Wow.. Now you have me intrigued.

These comments caught my eye:-

Calvinism -

"accuse God of being the author of evil, the origin of evil, the cause of evil."

" espouses that humans are soulless mindless robots"

And eapexially this claim you have made :-

"Calvinism teaches that God is an all-powerful cosmic tyrant"

I've never heard a calvinist say those things, can you provide references? Are you being honest in presenting what Calvinism is and what you have said it teaches?
Click to expand...
Look man, I am not here to spoon feed anybody.
What you need to first understand is what are the LIES OF SATAN.

Nobody seems to know. But I happen to know. Lucky me huh?
Maybe because I have invested hundreds and hundreds of hours into this task.

Knock yourself out man. Get back to me in 3 or 4 years.

 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#617
Nov 20, 2018
22,621
8,184
113
#617
phil36 said:
Hi cv5,

Interesting comments you make, is it really true... Wow.. Now you have me intrigued.

These comments caught my eye:-

Calvinism -

"accuse God of being the author of evil, the origin of evil, the cause of evil."

" espouses that humans are soulless mindless robots"

And eapexially this claim you have made :-

"Calvinism teaches that God is an all-powerful cosmic tyrant"

I've never heard a calvinist say those things, can you provide references? Are you being honest in presenting what Calvinism is and what you have said it teaches?
Click to expand...
 
R

Rufus

Well-known member
#618
Feb 17, 2024
2,236
237
63
#618
cv5 said:
Calvinism is a hodge-podge of heresies that essentially accuse God of being the author of evil, the origin of evil, the cause of evil.
Calvinism teaches that God is an all-powerful cosmic tyrant, and He has not endowed his creation with free will aka true life.
Calvinism espouses that humans are soulless mindless robots, who He created for the lake of fire except those who won the book of life lottery that is a rigged casino that only God operates. Think of a cosmic Logan's run scenario.

Which is a repeating the lie of Satan. A series of false accusations by which he has deceived 1/3 of the angels.
Eve was deceived as well......but she REPENTED and confessed the actual truth about God at her trial.

In the book of Job, Satan again accuses God of running a rigged casino. God however is JUSTIFIED by the FREE WILL decision of Job to worship Him.
Click to expand...
You're quite the expert in creating straw men and red herrings.

God endowed his moral agents with the same kind of will He has whereby prior to the fall of the angles and man, both were truly free FROM the influence of sin and a sin nature, which made them perfectly free TO serve and obey God. God, too, can make only righteous choices since he is free FROM all darkness and sin.

And was God an "all powerful tyrant" when he graciously rescued Israel from their bondage and slavery in Egypt?
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#619
Nov 20, 2018
22,621
8,184
113
#619
Rufus said:
You're quite the expert in creating straw men and red herrings.

God endowed his moral agents with the same kind of will He has whereby prior to the fall of the angles and man, both were truly free FROM the influence of sin and a sin nature, which made them perfectly free TO serve and obey God. God, too, can make only righteous choices since he is free FROM all darkness and sin.

And was God an "all powerful tyrant" when he graciously rescued Israel from their bondage and slavery in Egypt?
Click to expand...
Absolutely false. Wrong again buddy.

UNFALLEN Adam and Eve had the free will to make bad/wrong decisions.
Decisions that led to their "death" aka separation from God.

FALLEN Adam and Eve had the free will to make good/right decisions.
Decisions that led to "life" aka "salvation" aka "reconciliation" aka "renewed fellowship" with God.
 
R

Rufus

Well-known member
#620
Feb 17, 2024
2,236
237
63
#620
cv5 said:
Look man, I am not here to spoon feed anybody.
What you need to first understand is what are the LIES OF SATAN.

Nobody seems to know. But I happen to know. Lucky me huh?
Maybe because I have invested hundreds and hundreds of hours into this task.

Knock yourself out man. Get back to me in 3 or 4 years.

Click to expand...
So, how long have you been worshiping this Chronister god of yours? I'm not surprised at all that you would support your heresies with extra-biblical works.

I chuckled reading though your bullet points, especially this one:

"Nothing Is Impossible? Then can the notion of Total Inability be right?
Stephen A. Chronister"

This guy can't be serious, can he, to ask such a ridiculous question? Logically, the two ideas are not mutually exclusive. Of course, Total Inability can be right! Aren't the physically dead totally unable to function in the physical world? And, yet, one day Jesus is going to raise the physical dead -- the goats will be condemned for all eternity and the sheep will dwell with God all eternity -- all because God also raised his sheep from their spiritual tombs to give them the ability to believe.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.