Ryan Walters wants taxpayers to buy Bibles for Oklahoma classrooms

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ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,256
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#1
Thought this was a pretty interesting story. Ryan Walters, the Superintendent of Oklahoma's public education is back in the news. He's requiring all public schools to have Bibles in their classrooms and teach its influence on the founding of the USA. Sounds pretty good, right? However, here's where it gets interesting.

Walters is taking bids right now from suppliers to supply Bibles for this. He has created a list of criteria which he wants for the Bibles:

1. They must be the King James Version with Old and New Testaments.​
2. They must not have commentary of any kind.​
2. They must have attached to them the US Constitution, the Bill of Rights, the Declaration of Independence, the Pledge of Allegiance and must be leather-bound.​

Guess what, there's only one Bible currently on the market that meets these criteria: you guessed it, the Donald Trump God Bless the USA Bible! LOL

But there's a more serious problem I have with all of this, and that is Walters' insistence that it's all purely historical. It's prohibited by Oklahoma's State Constitution to use public funds to support any system of religion. The Bibles will, after all, be purchased with tax dollars.

Section II-5: Public money or property - Use for sectarian purposes.
No public money or property shall ever be appropriated, applied, donated, or used, directly or indirectly, for the use, benefit, or support of any sect, church, denomination, or system of religion, or for the use, benefit, or support of any priest, preacher, minister, or other religious teacher or dignitary, or sectarian institution as such.—Oklahoma Constitution, Section II-5​

In order for Walters to skirt this, he has to basically declare that the Bible is a purely historical document. This is clearly not the case; and it's pretty hypocritical of him, since he is declaring his own faith is based on a history book.

Several school districts in Oklahoma have already said they won't comply with his edict. Actually, he doesn't have the authority to do this. Under Oklahoma state law, school districts have sole authority to set their own curriculum.

Walters is already in hot water and is the subject of a State investigation for the way he has handled funds and his lack of transparency. Some have commented that he seems to have political ambitions and wants to get his face out there on FOX News. Hard to disagree. I would add that it seems to me like an obvious Christian nationalist move on his part.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,576
9,093
113
#2
Thought this was a pretty interesting story. Ryan Walters, the Superintendent of Oklahoma's public education is back in the news. He's requiring all public schools to have Bibles in their classrooms and teach its influence on the founding of the USA. Sounds pretty good, right? However, here's where it gets interesting.

Walters is taking bids right now from suppliers to supply Bibles for this. He has created a list of criteria which he wants for the Bibles:

1. They must be the King James Version with Old and New Testaments.​
2. They must not have commentary of any kind.​
2. They must have attached to them the US Constitution, the Bill of Rights, the Declaration of Independence, the Pledge of Allegiance and must be leather-bound.​

Guess what, there's only one Bible currently on the market that meets these criteria: you guessed it, the Donald Trump God Bless the USA Bible! LOL

But there's a more serious problem I have with all of this, and that is Walters' insistence that it's all purely historical. It's prohibited by Oklahoma's State Constitution to use public funds to support any system of religion. The Bibles will, after all, be purchased with tax dollars.

Section II-5: Public money or property - Use for sectarian purposes.
No public money or property shall ever be appropriated, applied, donated, or used, directly or indirectly, for the use, benefit, or support of any sect, church, denomination, or system of religion, or for the use, benefit, or support of any priest, preacher, minister, or other religious teacher or dignitary, or sectarian institution as such.—Oklahoma Constitution, Section II-5​

In order for Walters to skirt this, he has to basically declare that the Bible is a purely historical document. This is clearly not the case; and it's pretty hypocritical of him, since he is declaring his own faith is based on a history book.

Several school districts in Oklahoma have already said they won't comply with his edict. Actually, he doesn't have the authority to do this. Under Oklahoma state law, school districts have sole authority to set their own curriculum.

Walters is already in hot water and is the subject of a State investigation for the way he has handled funds and his lack of transparency. Some have commented that he seems to have political ambitions and wants to get his face out there on FOX News. Hard to disagree. I would add that it seems to me like an obvious Christian nationalist move on his part.
RA is obsessed with hating President Trump and even other Christians that want the very best for the United States of America.

Imagine waking up every day with this burning desire to denigrate another human being.

He truly needs prayer for his tortured soul.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,421
6,662
113
#3
Schools have Korans, they have the Hindu books, and there is absolutely no doubt that the Bible does give a historical perspective that is valuable.

Also it is very clear that the Bible does not require one to belong to any specific religion. Islam sees parts of the Bible as their history and consider Jesus to be a prophet. Judaism uses the Bible. Catholics use the Bible. Evangelicals use the Bible. Mormons and JWs use the Bible and even FreeMasons use the Bible.

It is pure hypocrisy for anyone to have an issue with a school system purchasing Bibles when they purchase thousands of books each year.

As for the restriction that the Bible include a constitution and be leather bound, that does seem to be transparently political.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,404
13,746
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#4
While I’m not American, I do understand the purpose behind separating church and state… and short of the eternal kingdom, I consider it appropriate. If someone wants Bibles in schools, why don’t they simply ask Christian organizations to supply them? The stated requirements of ‘KJV only’ and ‘leather-bound’ are silly side issues.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,421
6,662
113
#5
While I’m not American, I do understand the purpose behind separating church and state… and short of the eternal kingdom, I consider it appropriate. If someone wants Bibles in schools, why don’t they simply ask Christian organizations to supply them? The stated requirements of ‘KJV only’ and ‘leather-bound’ are silly side issues.
LOL, I am a Gideon and we do supply Bibles to students, free. However, the schools will not allow us into the schools. Now in other countries they do and we can hand each student a Bible, but not in the US. By law we must stand on a public sidewalk. Not so bad except most students these days are either picked up by their parents in cars in the parking lot or bused. So at least 75% of the students never get a chance to receive a Bible.
 

CarriePie

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2024
1,605
1,058
113
Oklahoma
#6
As an Oklahoman, I don't like or trust what Walter's is doing. I'm sure he's doing this due to having political ambitions.

Trump benefits from the sale of the God Bless the USA Bible. The only Bibles that meets specifications are either a Bible that's endorsed by Trump or one that's endorsed by Trump Jr.?! LoL! Those cost $60+. We couldn't get a regular Bible, which can even be purchased at the Dollar Tree for $1.25? Of course, I believe the Bible is priceless, but I don't like the idea of a politician using the Bible.

Besides, our Oklahoma constitution is clear. And I like what Rob Miller, the Bixby Superintendent, said, "As a Christian myself, the idea of diminishing the word of God to a mere classroom prop is repulsive to me."
 

MeowFlower

Active member
Aug 25, 2024
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#7
Sure. Why not?

Tax payers reportedly buy perverse literature promoting Trans afflictions so kids can be misled about gender switching.

Why not Bibles to counter the lies with the truth.
In the beginning God made male and female.

Not 600+ genders.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,256
3,595
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#8
Sure. Why not?

Tax payers reportedly buy perverse literature promoting Trans afflictions so kids can be misled about gender switching.
Is this being done in Oklahoma? Do you have a source? If it's true, I would be against that as well; however, I'm curious to know if it would violate Oklahoma's constitution or the laws governing their school districts. My problem isn't so much with the Bible being in the classrooms; it's all the laws Ryan Walters is violating to get it done. His decision to unilaterally do this without any authority is pretty concerning.
 

SonJudgment

Well-known member
Jun 25, 2024
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#9
From the sound of it Waithers actually makes a good point about the Bible being of historical value. In fact it is the most provable and best historical document of all time and literature. You could even make the case for the value of English language as a subject and the KJV particularly of course. Even besides the Bible's contents just the history of the Bible's printing of which it is the first used on the printing press and is heavily tied into its invention and the advent of mass publication and literacy is pretty relevant in history and many spheres of academia. The criticism from the historical value point of view would be that he is missing the Treaty of Paris from among the American founding documents, and it also invokes God and the wider spiritual powers behind all governments. Indeed the Bible and the American founding documents all make a strong case that there is an overall theme in them that there is indeed a God and that because of God the nation of America was legitimate to rebel against Britain and then become a legitimate nation and is for the time allowed to exist as a legitimate nation under God.
 

SonJudgment

Well-known member
Jun 25, 2024
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#10
Sure. Why not?

Tax payers reportedly buy perverse literature promoting Trans afflictions so kids can be misled about gender switching.

Why not Bibles to counter the lies with the truth.
In the beginning God made male and female.

Not 600+ genders.
This is of course the obvious reason. Even besides this though the Bible belongs in classrooms on its own merits, it's the most historical document of all time, it has major implications on American history, it has major implications on English language, even the Bible is the biggest science textbook of all time.
 

CarriePie

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2024
1,605
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Oklahoma
#11
LoL, if he was wanting to put the Bibles in our Oklahoma classroom for forthright reasons then he wouldn't be going about in the manner in which he's going about it and making it so only Trump endorsed Bibles meet specifications.
It's not about the Bibles with him, it's about himself and furthering his political ambitions.
 

SonJudgment

Well-known member
Jun 25, 2024
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#12
LoL, if he was wanting to put the Bibles in our Oklahoma classroom for forthright reasons then he wouldn't be going about in the manner in which he's going about it and making it so only Trump endorsed Bibles meet specifications.
It's not about the Bibles with him, it's about himself and furthering his political ambitions.
This sounds like it might be a point, maybe make it just a KJV without being any particular publisher. Still though ambition isn't a bad quality if it's for God's side. As someone that's never heard of the guy, honestly I gotta give it to him he sounds smart and ambitious, these are good talents in short supply among the generation that led us to ruin, I would promote him, send him to a higher office for sure, may Jesus bless him!
 

CarriePie

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2024
1,605
1,058
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Oklahoma
#13
This sounds like it might be a point, maybe make it just a KJV without being any particular publisher. Still though ambition isn't a bad quality if it's for God's side. As someone that's never heard of the guy, honestly I gotta give it to him he sounds smart and ambitious, these are good talents that can be used, I would promote him, send him to a higher office for sure, may Jesus bless him!
I don't give him any credits. He's using the Bible to further his own ambitions. And as an Okie, I don't approve. It's not forthright to use the Bible in such a manner. And he certainly doesn't need promoted.
 

SonJudgment

Well-known member
Jun 25, 2024
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#14
I don't give him any credits. He's using the Bible to further his own ambitions. And as an Okie, I don't approve. It's not forthright to use the Bible in such a manner.
It's your state so your judgment may be more fitting though I wouldn't be too quick to cast talent aside. You never do get the heroes you want, God just sends the heroes you deserve.
 

CarriePie

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2024
1,605
1,058
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Oklahoma
#15
It's your state so your judgement may be more fitting though I wouldn't be too quick to cast talent aside. You never do get the heroes you want, God just sends the heroes you deserve.
I'll pray that someone replaces him with actual God given talent or that he gets right with God and stops using the Bible for his own ambitions.
 

MeowFlower

Active member
Aug 25, 2024
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#16
LoL, if he was wanting to put the Bibles in our Oklahoma classroom for forthright reasons then he wouldn't be going about in the manner in which he's going about it and making it so only Trump endorsed Bibles meet specifications.
It's not about the Bibles with him, it's about himself and furthering his political ambitions.
Where's the evidence? Only Trump endorsed Bibles?

Post that please .
 

MeowFlower

Active member
Aug 25, 2024
461
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youtube.com
#17
Is this being done in Oklahoma? Do you have a source? If it's true, I would be against that as well; however, I'm curious to know if it would violate Oklahoma's constitution or the laws governing their school districts. My problem isn't so much with the Bible being in the classrooms; it's all the laws Ryan Walters is violating to get it done. His decision to unilaterally do this without any authority is pretty concerning.
https://www.google.com/m?q=transgen...ols&client=ms-opera-mobile&channel=new&espv=1


https://www.oklahoman.com/story/new...es-ryan-walters-gentner-drummond/70080835007/


Google: Oklahoma transgender books public schools

Loads of links.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,256
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#18
If Walters wants to get all the trans books out of school libraries then I applaud him for that. However, the article in your second link states he didn't follow the proper procedure. The state legislature has to first give him the authority to do so. This is the same problem I have with his attempts to force teachers to teach from the Bible; that is, he has no authority to do this on his own. No one is above the law, not even a Christian who has good intentions.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,256
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#19
Now, instead of requiring the founding documents be bound in the Bibles, it has been modified to say they don't have to be bound but they still need to be included. This will probably open the bidding to more vendors; however, the fundamental problem still remains: Walters does not have the authority on his own to do this, and he's using money that was previously approved for payroll. He's gone rogue and is saying people just hate Trump and hate the Bible. I don't know if they do or don't, but if they did, does that mean he's above the law?