Gods will vs mans free will

[jacko]

God created man but gave man free will. Yet God wants man to give us our free will and live according to Gods will.
This intersection of free will and "discerning" Gods will, can be quite challenging.

Here is an example. I'm 51 currently out of work. I've been praying for God to guide me through this difficult time. To be honest, I DONT want to go back to corporate work, but the reality of finances and such might dictate i do so versus starting a new business on my own.
I've been praying and asking God to open doors and opportunities which requires faith. At the same time, God isn't a genie, so a job or new business isn't going to come unless I apply, network, etc. I must DO or ACT upon my own free will and or thoughts to make it happen. While there may be some Christians are many who might say patiently wait upon the Lord.

Another example, prior to be going back to church, I was listening to David Goggins (Navy seal, motivational speaker) and purchased his two audio books. Listening to his message of self-empowerment allowed me to lose 20+ pounds through dedicated working out and a strict diet. The mindset of "you are on your own" and you can do it was empowering. However, does this conflict with biblical principals as well? For the bible says "I am made perfect in your weakness." My point is we have the ability through our own free will do certain things, we can choose what car we buy, what foods we eat, surely, I don't need Gods discernment on everything, etc right?

I don't know if others feel this, but when I feel vulnerable (and humble) when I pray to God several times a day.
But when I feel like it's not my time (God doesn't or hasn't answer my prayer) then I say OK, and I'm going to make something happen if you get my point. Please correct me if I'm not thinking about this right.

 

[jacko]

ChatGPT is the best.

Your reflections on free will, faith, and discernment are thoughtful and resonate with many who seek to balance personal agency with spiritual guidance.

It's true that God has given us free will, and part of that involves taking action—applying for jobs, networking, and pursuing opportunities. This doesn't negate faith; rather, it can be seen as working in partnership with God. You're actively seeking guidance and then responding with your own efforts, which is a practical way to live out your faith.

The tension you feel between self-empowerment and reliance on God is common. David Goggins' message emphasizes personal accountability and resilience, which can be motivating. However, from a biblical perspective, recognizing our limitations and reliance on God's strength can coexist with the drive to improve ourselves. Scripture encourages us to seek God’s guidance while also using the gifts and abilities He has given us.

In moments of vulnerability, your prayers reflect a humble heart, and it’s okay to take initiative when you feel God's answers are not clear. Waiting on God can sometimes feel like inaction, but it can also mean preparing your heart and mind for what He has in store.

Your desire to seek discernment in your decisions is important, and it’s okay to trust your judgment in many areas of life. God often uses our circumstances and choices to guide us, and finding that balance is a personal journey.

Ultimately, seeking God in prayer while taking proactive steps is a healthy approach. You're not alone in navigating these complex feelings, and it's clear you're striving to align your actions with your faith. Keep seeking God's wisdom, and trust that He will guide you in the right direction.

 

[homwardbound]

God created man but gave man free will. Yet God wants man to give us our free will and live according to Gods will.
This intersection of free will and "discerning" Gods will, can be quite challenging.

Here is an example. I'm 51 currently out of work. I've been praying for God to guide me through this difficult time. To be honest, I DONT want to go back to corporate work, but the reality of finances and such might dictate i do so versus starting a new business on my own.
I've been praying and asking God to open doors and opportunities which requires faith. At the same time, God isn't a genie, so a job or new business isn't going to come unless I apply, network, etc. I must DO or ACT upon my own free will and or thoughts to make it happen. While there may be some Christians are many who might say patiently wait upon the Lord.

Another example, prior to be going back to church, I was listening to David Goggins (Navy seal, motivational speaker) and purchased his two audio books. Listening to his message of self-empowerment allowed me to lose 20+ pounds through dedicated working out and a strict diet. The mindset of "you are on your own" and you can do it was empowering. However, does this conflict with biblical principals as well? For the bible says "I am made perfect in your weakness." My point is we have the ability through our own free will do certain things, we can choose what car we buy, what foods we eat, surely, I don't need Gods discernment on everything, etc right?

I don't know if others feel this, but when I feel vulnerable (and humble) when I pray to God several times a day.
But when I feel like it's not my time (God doesn't or hasn't answer my prayer) then I say OK, and I'm going to make something happen if you get my point. Please correct me if I'm not thinking about this right.

I cannot correct you, as what you are in =, many before you have been also. This is a fight between the flesh spirit death that appears alive when it gets stuff here on earth and one feels oh so good over it, which one day you will find out, not all that glitters is gold. As you want and need, yet your want is exceeding your needs, has turned your wants into needs, is what I see from your post. So you hooked up with flesh can do it, by a flesh connoisseur guru. you can be better than God, really! is that persons view, getting people to go after things here and now, forget about later on, who cares attitude. The same as Credit cards have done to people get it now, pay later!
There truly is a fight between the first born nature flesh, and the Spirit of God that raised Son from the dead for you personally, to stand in trust, especially through any and all troubles that come at you, through you and in you. You in your own heart already know truth, to see and you see it, hoping you do not ignore it, what to do in to continue no matter what in trust to God to get you through it all, you know this, and now are confronted with God with God even though all looks bad, or not go with The Father of the risen Son Jesus for you.
Yes pound the pavement to get what it is you need, just learn your own limitations, and not go beyond the love in you, put in you by God in you to not harm others in the process in your life here on earth, thank you See James 1 please
Oh and so you know, I went to death over 12 years ago and would not give up on belief to God no matter what, yes was in a wheel chair, and homeless, not anymore, I stood in trust to God over it all, and yes had feelings trying to get in my way, and still do have these from time to time trying to lead me and I see feelings as the caboose on as train, that follows the engine and does not lead. Yet wants to, as is what is happening to you in your troubled circumstances
So, seeing. the feelings as the thief I see to disregard them and remain in trust to God, the Father of the risen Son Jesus and stand, in trust as in Col. 1:21-23 tells me all about it.
Which is not easy and was not easy for my wife and me either, ever.
So, please stand even as Job stood in the book of job for you to see to do that too re-read it if have or have not, see that very first chapter in satan saying to God, if you let me giver Job troubles, I bet Job will deny you!
Job did not deny God all the way through all those troubles, please do the same and one day you will look back in humble thankfulness

 

[Lafftur]

God’s Will is that man would choose Life.

Man’s freewill is that man can choose Life or Death.

Personally, I choose God’s Will… I choose Life…. and we all know Jesus Christ is The Way, The Truth and The LIFE. There is NO Life apart from Jesus Christ.

I choose Jesus Christ.

 

[Webers.Home]

.
The supreme being's free will trumps everybody else's free will, viz: we all
have to give an answer for ourselves whereas the supreme being answers
to no one.
_

 

[Nehemiah6]

The mindset of "you are on your own" and you can do it was empowering. However, does this conflict with biblical principals as well?

There are certain things which God allows Christians to work out for themselves. Exercise and diet are included. In other things which are beyond us, we ask God's help. It may or may not come, and I know from personal experience. But we can continue to pray and hope that God will hear and answer. So there is no conflict between God's will and man's free will. We are to freely choose to obey the Gospel. Salvation is offered to all.

 

[jacko]

There are certain things which God allows Christians to work out for themselves. Exercise and diet are included. In other things which are beyond us, we ask God's help. It may or may not come, and I know from personal experience. But we can continue to pray and hope that God will hear and answer. So there is no conflict between God's will and man's free will. We are to freely choose to obey the Gospel. Salvation is offered to all.

Thank you for your thoughtful response, My questions only relates to those who already know Christ.

 

[homwardbound]

God’s Will is that man would choose Life.

Man’s freewill is that man can choose Life or Death.

Personally, I choose God’s Will… I choose Life…. and we all know Jesus Christ is The Way, The Truth and The LIFE. There is NO Life apart from Jesus Christ.

I choose Jesus Christ.

Me too, amen even if troubles I am in, thank you. oh I am here on earth for a short while until eternity sets in. Kind of like Paul, it is better if I go, and not be here, yet I am here by God's purpose not my own

 

[Iconoclast]

Free will does not exist. Man does not have free will, God does not have free will.
God is not free to Lie, God is not free to change, God does not need to repent.
Men make choices, but their self=will is bound, not free.

 

[TMS]

God created man but gave man free will. Yet God wants man to give us our free will and live according to Gods will.
This intersection of free will and "discerning" Gods will, can be quite challenging.

Here is an example. I'm 51 currently out of work. I've been praying for God to guide me through this difficult time. To be honest, I DONT want to go back to corporate work, but the reality of finances and such might dictate i do so versus starting a new business on my own.
I've been praying and asking God to open doors and opportunities which requires faith. At the same time, God isn't a genie, so a job or new business isn't going to come unless I apply, network, etc. I must DO or ACT upon my own free will and or thoughts to make it happen. While there may be some Christians are many who might say patiently wait upon the Lord.

Another example, prior to be going back to church, I was listening to David Goggins (Navy seal, motivational speaker) and purchased his two audio books. Listening to his message of self-empowerment allowed me to lose 20+ pounds through dedicated working out and a strict diet. The mindset of "you are on your own" and you can do it was empowering. However, does this conflict with biblical principals as well? For the bible says "I am made perfect in your weakness." My point is we have the ability through our own free will do certain things, we can choose what car we buy, what foods we eat, surely, I don't need Gods discernment on everything, etc right?

I don't know if others feel this, but when I feel vulnerable (and humble) when I pray to God several times a day.
But when I feel like it's not my time (God doesn't or hasn't answer my prayer) then I say OK, and I'm going to make something happen if you get my point. Please correct me if I'm not thinking about this right.

God is in charge.
He determines all things. True we have free will but we can not change what God has said.
For example
Daniel Chap2 the king had a dream and the dream was interpreted. He was told that he was the head of Gold. Another kingdom would succeed his kingdom.
Nebuchadenezza was amazed.
Dan 2:21 And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:

But Nebuchadeezza wanted to change times and prophecies. He build a solid gold image. Babylon came to an end.

If God has said or prophesied something we are not able to change it.
Gods Word is greater then all our power.

But God does not force us to sin or do what we would not choose.

God knows everything we will choose before we do.

 

[TMS]

Free will does not exist. Man does not have free will, God does not have free will.
God is not free to Lie, God is not free to change, God does not need to repent.
Men make choices, but their self=will is bound, not free.

So are we all robots ? No choice

That means I can't choose to repent and I can't choose to love.

 

[Eli1]

So are we all robots ? No choice

That means I can't choose to repent and I can't choose to love.

I think a lot of things will get lost in translation over this topic, because ... that's how it goes ... but from his comment i understood it as "limited free will" which is also how i understand free-will.

We have free-will but it's limited to the physical and spiritual limitations placed on us.

 

[Bleed]

i agree.
without freewill, we might as be androids.

 

[Webers.Home]

.
● Gen 4:7 . . If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do
not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you,
but you must master it.

In other words: God created humanity with the capability to choose bad ways
for itself; but that's only half the story. God also created humanity with the
capability to choose good ways for itself; so He wasn't requiring something
impossible from Cain like touching his right elbow with the thumb of his right
hand.

Christians are not exempt from self control.

"Do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. Do
not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but
rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death
to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of
righteousness." (Rom 6:12-13)

 

[Magenta]

i agree.
without freewill, we might as be androids.

The Bible does not mention androids...

But it does say that men are captive to the will of the devil, slaves to sin, lovers
of darkness, and hostile in their minds toward God, among many other things.

Man's depravity vs God's Grace

 

[Lafftur]

Free will does not exist. Man does not have free will, God does not have free will.
God is not free to Lie, God is not free to change, God does not need to repent.
Men make choices, but their self=will is bound, not free.

God wants to give you Life but will not make the choice for you because He doesn’t want a robot. God wants to be with those that choose to be with Him-Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

God has chosen to love you and give you Life but you must also choose to love God and choose Life.

The only other option is Death.

Which one do you choose…. Life or Death?

 

[homwardbound]

Free will does not exist. Man does not have free will, God does not have free will.
God is not free to Lie, God is not free to change, God does not need to repent.
Men make choices, but their self=will is bound, not free.

therefore are you a puppet, no free choice. then there is nothing to discuss, thanks

 

[Cameron143]

therefore are you a puppet, no free choice. then there is nothing to discuss, thanks

You misunderstand what he is saying. Every man is subject to his nature.

Suppose you go to a car lot and want to purchase a vehicle. You may like the most expensive car on the lot, but are you free to buy it? The dealership will run your credit history and check your income to see if you possess the requisite history and income to warrant such a large loan. For most, while they are able to choose a vehicle and get approved for a loan, they aren't able to choose the most expensive vehicle.

So it is with man and God. Man is limited in what he can choose in a relationship with God. Instead of an income statement and prior credit history, man is limited by his nature. He is at enmity with God, is a slave to sin, and views the gospel as foolishness. And just as a man cannot change his credit history, neither can man change his fallen estate. It is only the grace and mercy of God that can change the heart of an individual. And until such time, we drive a clunker.

 

[homwardbound]

You misunderstand what he is saying. Every man is subject to his nature.

Suppose you go to a car lot and want to purchase a vehicle. You may like the most expensive car on the lot, but are you free to buy it? The dealership will run your credit history and check your income to see if you possess the requisite history and income to warrant such a large loan. For most, while they are able to choose a vehicle and get approved for a loan, they aren't able to choose the most expensive vehicle.

So it is with man and God. Man is limited in what he can choose in a relationship with God. Instead of an income statement and prior credit history, man is limited by his nature. He is at enmity with God, is a slave to sin, and views the gospel as foolishness. And just as a man cannot change his credit history, neither can man change his fallen estate. It is only the grace and mercy of God that can change the heart of an individual. And until such time, we drive a clunker.

Thanks for the explanation
I see the first birth of each and every person is born as spiritually dead to God. Has a selfish nature and wants, desires to live in spite of and will react accordingly to whatever situation is at hand. Just like the first chosen in Genesis 34
where they deceived the tribe of Hamer to slay them in getting them circumcised over Dinah getting raped by Hamer's Son Shechem. They killed Tham over it. There was no Law imputed yet.
Therefore we all do know right from wrong and do repay anyone for doing wrong to them even through deception. We, have the I am right and you are wrong attitudes of first birth in flesh and blood. We the people of the first birth do that, do we not all do that? They did that by thier own free choice, to do it or not do it. Was it righteous of either tribe?
Example also is in Joseph, who got sold to Egypt and was there and saw that person who tipped the scales in his favor and Joseph made the King aware, so again we all are first born not as sinners as aware of right and wrong, choosing what is right and what is wrong, Joseph saw it righteously, so did the first Chosen and each chose, not aware of truth of Law to do or not do, or even why to do or not do, until Law the Ten Commandments, which no one understood the Law as Jesus did and revealed it to us all LOVE of God, his Father, that people have excluded, not seeing the truth and giving credit to Father. Have made Son Father the two as One. Yet they are two, yet (One) Won for us to be new and one with them as Won for us on that cross, completed in the risen Son for us to be risen now too, and not working to get in as they did under Law as we the Gentile still are trying to do, that no one of flesh can do, but Son who did it once for us all, it is done, finished. sin is taken away by the done work of Son, once anyone believes God Father in this truth is given the new life to see and be new in love to all as Son did once for all on the cross, without asking anyone but Father before going their willingly.
The Law came to reveal to us our needs for God to lead, and this cannot, or will not get done in anyone, until one willingly agrees with God for God to lead, then to each, Son is revealed in his walk here on earth first, totally dependent on Father, we become one in the same.
Until anyone makes that choice between God and themselves, one will continue to be in bondage, yes I agree, first birth is in bondage and no real free choice, until born again by God Father for them in risen Son to them thank you
The truth sets one free, God is the Truth.

 

[HeIsHere]

i agree.
without freewill, we might as be androids.

Only an android until God, who likes some more than others, steps in and turns on a switch so you are no longer an android.