Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

[posthuman]

anyone whole Loves THIS EVIL WORLD, has not the love of God in him, Jesus said that

the Spirit also wrote that Lot was righteous, living in Sodom even while vexed by it, lovingly seeking the good of the stranger and foreigner, and pleading with the wicked with humility before them, saying 'please don't do this' instead of cursing them with his mouth.

 

[Magenta]

how about people who believe they can lose their salvation?
are they unsaved because they believe this?

and how about people who believe they can't lose their salvation? is that evidence they already have?

Scripture plainly states that those God gives to Jesus will come to Him and those who come He will never cast out... He will lose none! Perhaps some think they are more powerful than Jesus?

 

[Magenta]

idol Shepherd

That's Simon Cowell...

 

[posthuman]

Scripture plainly states that those God gives to Jesus will come to Him and those who come He will never cast out... He will lose none! Perhaps some think they are more powerful than Jesus?

humans and their self-importance, smh

 

[Musicmaster]

You have that promise of Salvation, but you have to ENDURE until the end. What part of that do you not get, the point is anyone can turn away from God. That is why Jesus said only 5 of the 10 virgin brides will make the Marriage in Heaven. That ratio also matches the Matt. 24:36-51 ONE TAKEN and ONE LEFT. Only half the church will make the Rapture my sister. God sees the heart.

People better grasp this. Sell out for Jesus, if you cling to this world Jesus says you are not of God.

I'm still trying to figure who here, of those who believe one can lost their salvation under the Gospel of Grace, who among them have ever lost theirs. The claim that it's possible, that means they have tested it? I'm baffled that anyone could believe that having been born again, one can become UNborn again, or that one can become UNsealed by Holy Spirit. None of you have yet explained that one in relation to this very terminology:

1) Sealed by Holy Spirit, and
2) Born Again.

I wish someone would tackle that in relation to the belief that a truly born again, sealed by Holy Spirit person can lose their salvation.

MM

 

[rogerg]

thing is, they're ethnic Jews and also Christians.
the gospel is "to the Jew first, and also the Gentile"

i mean yeah it's not written to unbelievers
no argument there!

but i think mentioning the 12 scattered tribes is a pretty strong indication the audience is Jewish Christians living outside of Israel.

That is not relevant. In the book of James, he was addressing and teaching believers- Christians, as can be seen in the
subsequent verses. Therefore, the tribes he was addressing were of spiritual Israel, not tribes of the earthy nation of Israel.

 

[CS1]

Well, he clearly does not understand that you can lose your salvation, which tech. you never had, we are only saved once we walk the full flight, you can serve God 80 years and turn to Satan. You are the ones who are not understanding plain scripture. Jesus said that many he will cast off, Jesus said only 5 of the 10 Virgins MAKE IT to the Wedding, and he calls them Virgins, meaning the repented. The 144,000 is a CODE for 5 million Jews who repent, or the 1/3 of Zech. 13:8-9, they are not all Virgin Males !!

12 = Fulness and 10 = Completeness so 12 x 12 x 10 x 10 x 10 = 144,000 or ALL Israel who repents.

1 Billion people, thinking they are Christians are sadly not going o be raptured, now they may repent during the 70th week, so I can not say they are hell bound per se.

You can take it any way you need to, I do not sugar coat God's word. Of course those of God can turn away from God, and half the church is now against God, that is why its called a Falling Away. Whilst a lot of people was partying at 22-23 I was praying all night long, God reveals His word to those who continually seek His face. This is why we have so many different understanding of Prophesy, people just hear something and run with it. They have the AC being a Jew or a Muslim, b9th are just wrong, he will be a Gentile King, just like the other 6 was and he will not rule the WHOLE WORLD, heck 1/3 (the New World) will be burning he will rule over the Mediterranean Sea Region. Just like Alexander the Great never ruled the WHOLE WORLD, even though Dan. 2 says he did, because the Prophesy is only about the Mediterranean Sea Regions land base. The 7 Heads (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome PLUS the Anti-Christ/Beast) and 10 (E.U.) Horns represent one area in the world. China and Russ9a with Nukes are not going to be ruled by the A.C.

its an argument that is unedifying.

As a minister, I am not sure I can help with focusing on Losing what Christ has done at the Cross of Calvery. I am to equip the saints to live victoriously. Nor have I been given the spirit of fear but of power, love, and a healthy mind. Are you telling make that the only message in the word of God is you can lose your salvation?

 

[CS1]

Well, he clearly does not understand that you can lose your salvation, which tech. you never had, we are only saved once we walk the full flight, you can serve God 80 years and turn to Satan. You are the ones who are not understanding plain scripture. Jesus said that many he will cast off, Jesus said only 5 of the 10 Virgins MAKE IT to the Wedding, and he calls them Virgins, meaning the repented. The 144,000 is a CODE for 5 million Jews who repent, or the 1/3 of Zech. 13:8-9, they are not all Virgin Males !!

12 = Fulness and 10 = Completeness so 12 x 12 x 10 x 10 x 10 = 144,000 or ALL Israel who repents.

1 Billion people, thinking they are Christians are sadly not going o be raptured, now they may repent during the 70th week, so I can not say they are hell bound per se.

You can take it any way you need to, I do not sugar coat God's word. Of course those of God can turn away from God, and half the church is now against God, that is why its called a Falling Away. Whilst a lot of people was partying at 22-23 I was praying all night long, God reveals His word to those who continually seek His face. This is why we have so many different understanding of Prophesy, people just hear something and run with it. They have the AC being a Jew or a Muslim, b9th are just wrong, he will be a Gentile King, just like the other 6 was and he will not rule the WHOLE WORLD, heck 1/3 (the New World) will be burning he will rule over the Mediterranean Sea Region. Just like Alexander the Great never ruled the WHOLE WORLD, even though Dan. 2 says he did, because the Prophesy is only about the Mediterranean Sea Regions land base. The 7 Heads (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome PLUS the Anti-Christ/Beast) and 10 (E.U.) Horns represent one area in the world. China and Russ9a with Nukes are not going to be ruled by the A.C.

I think you are worried that you will lose your salvation, so you need to create fear in other believers because you may not be living a victorious life before Christ. Are you unrepented? Do you have a strong hold on your life? do you have a secret sin that you cannot break free from? Are you saved, or are you hoping you don't lose your salvation? Be honest.

 

[Musicmaster]

Somebody better go to their basement, jump into their time machine, go back to the time of Peter when he was writing the following, and tell him how wrong he was:

2 Peter 1:10-11
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Truly saved people, therefore, DON'T fall, and this lost their salvation.

That's why I've been asking who among you who was ever truly saved has ever lost their salvation? Armenianism teaches that one can lose, regain, lose, regain, lose...ad infinitum, their salvation throughout their miserable lives, and thus never knowing if they are saved this instant...apart from how they feel at the moment...

Do you FEEL saved right now?

Why is this at all being discussed? The absurdity of the idea of losing salvation under the power of grace...just makes no sense.

One who is truly transformed, a new creation, simply doesn't traipse off into unbelief. Those who claim to have been a true believer and later become atheists...I don't buy it, and that mere claim doesn't prove anything!

MM

 

[CS1]

Somebody better go to their basement, jump into their time machine, go back to the time of Peter when he was writing the following, and tell him how wrong he was:

2 Peter 1:10-11
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Truly saved people, therefore, DON'T fall, and this lost their salvation.

That's why I've been asking who among you who was ever truly saved has ever lost their salvation? Armenianism teaches that one can lose, regain, lose, regain, lose...ad infinitum, their salvation throughout their miserable lives, and thus never knowing if they are saved this instant...apart from how they feel at the moment...

Do you FEEL saved right now?

Why is this at all being discussed? The absurdity of the idea of losing salvation under the power of grace...just makes no sense.

One who is truly transformed, a new creation, simply doesn't ramble off into unbelief. Those who claim to have been a true believer and later become atheists...I don't buy it, and that mere claim proves nothing!

MM

Jesus said :
John 10:29
My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

In Greek the words " No one " means no one.

Jude 1:24-25

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, to the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.



I agree that one can walk away from faith, but that is not the primary focus of the believer. We are to search our hearts to ensure we are in the faith. I do not believe the Holy Spirit is slacking on His ability to convict the believer, so they repent and ask for forgiveness.


Hebrews 4:16
Thos who come boldly to the throne Room of Grace to obtain Mercy in their time of Need. Instead of all roads leading to you can lose your faith and salvation. Should we not be forced to strengthen our relationship with the LORD?

This topic is not about salvation being lost; it is a debate among two groups that do more to scatter than unite.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Can you show me a command from scripture that thou shalt persevere?

When jesus says it. It is a command

In matt 24, he says he who perseveres to the end, shall be saved.

But again, this is not talking about us earning ur eternal life. He is talking about those in the tribulation period who are struggling to survive..

 

[Cameron143]

When jesus says it. It is a command

In matt 24, he says he who perseveres to the end, shall be saved.

But again, this is not talking about us earning ur eternal life. He is talking about those in the tribulation period who are struggling to survive..

There is no imperative there. It is simply a statement of fact. Jesus makes a declarative statement.

 

[posthuman]

I'm still trying to figure who here, of those who believe one can lost their salvation under the Gospel of Grace, who among them have ever lost theirs. The claim that it's possible, that means they have tested it?

from what i've gleaned in these conversations over the years, they never mean they themselves can lose their salvation.
they're only talking about other people.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

God won't fail. He is omnipotent. No one can thwart anything He is determined must happen. We disagree on the number of things God has determined and will determine must happen.

Then you should trust Gods promises

1. Look to the cross. Believe in him, and you will NEVER DIE, and yu have ETERNAL LIFE John 3)
2. Of all God has given him, he will lose nothing (john 6)
3. Believe in him, by seeing him at the cross. And in faith believing in him, and you will never perish, You will live forever. He also said you will be raised on the last day (john 6)
4. He said whoever hears and believes has eternal life and shall not come into judgment (john 5)
5. He said no one can snatch us out of his hands. Well last I checked. I am someone. So in fact. It says even i can not snatch myself out of his hands (praise God for this)

so who do you trust. yourself. Or God.

if you think salvation can be lost. Your trusting self. Because you in effect claim God can and does fail

 

[Cameron143]

from what i've gleaned in these conversations over the years, they never mean they themselves can lose their salvation.
they're only talking about other people.

They don't lose it. They simply misplace it from time to time.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

There is no imperative there. It is simply a statement of fact. Jesus makes a declarative statement.

lol. Your the one who said it was a descriptive statment, Those who are saved DO persevere to the end.

Thats wrong.. We do nto persever.

second, God did give an iperitive to those who are reading his words (let the read understand) and actually giving them hope. if you persevere. You will be saved.

 

[CS1]

from what i've gleaned in these conversations over the years, they never mean they themselves can lose their salvation.
they're only talking about other people.

Amen. It's like the person who reads the word of God in their personal devotion, and when they see a verse that convicts them, they immediately think of others instead of being corrected. Everyone else will lose their salvation but them. LOL.

That is called Self-Righteousness.

 

[posthuman]

That is not relevant. In the book of James, he was addressing and teaching believers- Christians, as can be seen in the
subsequent verses. Therefore, the tribes he was addressing were of spiritual Israel, not tribes of the earthy nation of Israel.

in Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek, so an interesting question i have is which spiritual tribe do you claim to be?

but strictly speaking of the scripture, mention of 12 tribes is a very specifically Israelite terminology.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Amen. It's like the person who reads the word of God in their personal devotion, and when they see a verse that convicts them, they immediately think of others instead of being corrected. Everyone else will lose their salvation but them. LOL.

That is called Self-Righteousness.

Modern day phariseeism I call it. They think they are ok, the issue is with everyone else. they are the sinners.

 

[posthuman]

They don't lose it. They simply misplace it from time to time.

He will leave the 99 in the fold, and go find the 1