What is the point in being a prophet?

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Genez

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Oct 12, 2017
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1 Corinthians 14:21-22

In the Law it is written:

“With other tongues
and through the lips of foreigners
I will speak to this people,
but even then they will not listen to me,
says the Lord.”


Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers."



Note!

but even then they will not listen to me, says the Lord.”


You have no ability to explain that.

For it adds ....

Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers;

And? In what way for the unbeliever?

I will speak to this people,
but even then they will not listen to me


Tongues were not for those who will get saved.
they will not listen to me

Like God gave Pharaoh signs of the plagues, knowing full well Pharaoh would reject God's warnings,
such a sign was leaving Pharaoh simultaneously to be without any excuse for his rejection.

You do not understand tongues' intended purpose when they were given.
Of course the ones who were given the gift had its benefits, too.
But they were not given the gift solely for the effect they would cause on the gift holder.
Those who are affected by the power find it entertaining and exciting... up to a point.

Certain Hindus taken over by a trance and can experience the same kind of supernatural power.
Pagan religions can have the same type of experience with an invisible power.

https://www.babbel.com/en/magazine/...y common in,and Japan's God Light Association.

Go ahead and argue if you wish.

“With other tongues
and through the lips of foreigners
I will speak to this people,
but even then they will not listen to me,
says the Lord.”


Great gift? Eh?

.......
 
Mar 29, 2023
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Simple act of prophesying for anyone to do: Say, "Our Lord Jesus Christ is coming back." That is prophesying.

Simple act of healing for anyone to do: Say, "I love you." God knows we need the healing that comes with those words more than any other kind. That is healing.

Simple act of pastoring for anyone to do: Say, "I'm here for you, Brother/Sister."

Simple act of teaching for anyone to do: Break out a Bible and read a scripture.

Most people can run, but most cannot run in the Olympics. God has blessed us all in part, but some hone their gifts and calling and become better at them. God has given me the gift of prophesying and the more I do it, the more I fulfill the calling. While I can't really "get better at it", He continues to give me direction and inspiration. He continues to give me prophetic dreams. He continues to open the doors and give me the resources I need to fulfill what He has called me to do.

I have grown spiritually, and my theology has changed many times over the past 23ish years as a Christian. For those arguing on here, be kind and patient to our Brothers and Sisters in Christ - especially when you don't agree with them (love your enemies?). People typically argue about theology because they're passionate about it and usually that stems from a passion for our Lord Jesus Christ. Let us walk in the unity of the Spirit. One Body.

I would be willing to bet when we meet Him, He will not ever say to anyone, "Good job on winning that argument on the internet."
 

2ndTimeIsTheCharm

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2023
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Unimportant. The message is the same. If you have a prophetic utterance SPEAK IT, and have no concern about its effect.
He already posted his "prophecy" in Post #74:

This is the prophecy and the message the Lord revealed to me over 10 years ago and His Spirit has impressed upon me to share: In the Bible, in the book of Revelation, God talks about Mystery Babylon. America is Babylon. And God has raised up Russia to destroy Babylon (America) in divine judgment - COMPLETELY. After the destruction of America, the Great Tribulation Jesus warned about will begin.

As much as some people desire to have America be important enough to be mentioned in Bible prophecy specifically, as you know, America is NOT Babylon.

So his prophecy is a false prophecy and he is therefore a false prophet.

He says he needs money to go to Miami to do the Lord's work there, but I think he just wants a free vacation.... :rolleyes:


🐹
 

Aaron56

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The Greek indicates that the ending of this gifts will not be in the same way.
It can not be speaking of their end when we are taken to heaven.

For one will be instantaneous. One will fade out, and slowly die down.
All would end instantly if the theory the gifts will cease when we get into heaven.
The goal of all the gifts is a visible, mature son in the earth (as He is in heaven). The grace of the empowerments are to be disseminated to the whole body: the members edify (build up) the body in this way. Men often use their gifts to validate their own ministries. The Lord, however, uses His gifts to equip the whole congregation.

For example, a prophet who hears the Lord and knows what He is doing, may create ”a prophetic ministry”. That’s not what the Lord intended. Instead, he should impart the grace given to him to others, encouraging them to hear the Lord as the natural function of the Spirit in them. Consider, once all have received this grace, what need is there for the prophet? The importance of that gift, in that congregation, will diminish as all will be equipped to hear God.

This is the framework for the Bride “making herself ready” to receive the Bridegroom. He’s coming back when the Spirit and the Bride both say “come”. This is why He will return, for the Bride who is ready. This is in stark contrast to the idea that we are so helpless that we need rescued.
 
Mar 29, 2023
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He already posted his "prophecy" in Post #74:

As much as some people desire to have America be important enough to be mentioned in Bible prophecy specifically, as you know, America is NOT Babylon.

So his prophecy is a false prophecy and he is therefore a false prophet.

He says he needs money to go to Miami to do the Lord's work there, but I think he just wants a free vacation.... :rolleyes:
You do realize that you're slandering me right? My feelings aside, you shouldn't do it because it's against the Word of God. If I'm a false prophet, let Him sort me out.

Besides, the Lord already sent me to Miami. He wants me to go to California next. And I believe He'll make a way for me to go as He has all the other places.

I happened to meet a street preacher when I was in Times Square. I liked him quite a bit and spent a few hours with him while I held my sign. I found His YouTube video of the day I was there. You can see me walk by him in the background in the first 30 seconds of the video. If that's your idea of a vacation, then you and I have different ideas of a vacation lol:

 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
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535
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Just jumping into the conversation here to make an observation:

Though one may have an opinion based on their understanding of church history (whether that view is accurate should be determined based on a thorough study of all church history sources) that the gifts of the Holy Spirit faded from the church and are no longer needed today, they cannot use 1 Corinthians 13 to support that opinion.

In Philippians, the same author Paul, wrote about not being perfect yet, but that he was reaching for it and would attain it when he obtained the resurrection from the dead. Therefore using the rule of hermeneutics of taking into consideration what else the author has said about "when that which is perfect is come" we understand that Pau'ls understanding of "when that which is perfect is come" is when he will be in his post resurrection state. It is not Jesus, or the second coming but rather what happens to us after that, The resurrection of our bodies that allows us to obtain "perfection" and only then will gifts of the Holy Spirit cease to be needed in the Church which is still in it's (pre resurrection state).

Even F.F. Bruce who was a ceasationist in his opinions about speaking in tongues, did nevertheless interpret "that which is perfect is come" as a reference to our post resurrection state.

Many intellectually honest scholars who are ceasationists have chided those who used 1 Cor 13 to support their views that the writing of Revelation marked the "that which is perfect is come" as not being intellectually honest in using this passage for that purpose. The majority ceasationist scholars agree that the post resurrection state is "that which is perfect is come."

Church of Christ teachers use 1 Cor 13 to support thier view that it is the writing of the scriptures that Paul meant and by doing so they lose their credibility as honest translators. They stand out as having become quite radical in taking such a stand and open themselves up to accusations of willfully handling the Word of God decietfully.
The word perfect could also speak in reference to something becoming fully mature.

Ever see a chef adding and tasting something he has on the stove,..... then suddenly stops adding things, and says..."perfect!"
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
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The goal of all the gifts is a visible, mature son in the earth (as He is in heaven). The grace of the empowerments are to be disseminated to the whole body: the members edify (build up) the body in this way. Men often use their gifts to validate their own ministries. The Lord, however, uses His gifts to equip the whole congregation.

For example, a prophet who hears the Lord and knows what He is doing, may create ”a prophetic ministry”. That’s not what the Lord intended. Instead, he should impart the grace given to him to others, encouraging them to hear the Lord as the natural function of the Spirit in them. Consider, once all have received this grace, what need is there for the prophet? The importance of that gift, in that congregation, will diminish as all will be equipped to hear God.

This is the framework for the Bride “making herself ready” to receive the Bridegroom. He’s coming back when the Spirit and the Bride both say “come”. This is why He will return, for the Bride who is ready. This is in stark contrast to the idea that we are so helpless that we need rescued.
If we had prophets today, like when the church began, you could stop reading your bibles and just depend upon what came from the mouth of prophets...

And, that is why they had prophets *before* the cannon of Scripture became complete!
 

2ndTimeIsTheCharm

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Feb 17, 2023
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You do realize that you're slandering me right? My feelings aside, you shouldn't do it because it's against the Word of God. If I'm a false prophet, let Him sort me out.

Big deal about the video. Just you holding up a sign in the background means nothing. What lengths some con artists go to...smh.

Regardless, I tested your spirit and found it wanting. What you say doesn't hold up to what the Bible says. So I'm warning other Christians just like the NT writers have (are they slanderers too?). So warning others as the NT writers have is not against the Word of God.

And I don't have to worry. God WILL sort you out if you don't repent.


🐹
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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You like to fight....

You like set up another to enter into the kind of fight you have a natural gift for./

Truth is? You can not prove anything you claimed.
Not really prove it.

So? You maneuver another to waste time in a fight, so your inability to prove your point will not be noticed. .
Look in the mirror, guy . still waiting for those verses that say the gifts of the Holy Spirit have stopped.
 

CS1

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It can hardly be called plagiarism when the author's name of what was quoted was cited.
It would be plagiarism if the one posting that page claimed he was the one citing Virgil's words, and not mention Virgil.

Look!

Virgil, writing about 17-19 BC, mentions a Sibyline priestess who would go into an ecstatic state where she was unified with the spirit of Apollo, and she would begin to speak in tongues, in ecstatic utterance. They claimed that it was known language. This is in pagan Greek worship of Apollo that she was probably possessed by a demon and spoke in a legitimate or a known language as well as in incoherent gibberish.
https://www.divineviewpoint.com/san...ck to at least,the sign of super spirituality.

Was Virgil making stuff up?

.....
Was Virgil making stuff up?


Hmmm, still waiting to see the gospel of Virgil and his word about the gifts of the Holy Spirit have ceased.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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I will speak to this people,
but even then they will not listen to me

Tongues were not for those who will get saved.
they will not listen to me
Like God gave Pharaoh signs of the plagues, knowing full well Pharaoh would reject God's warnings,
such a sign was leaving Pharaoh simultaneously to be without any excuse for his rejection.
You do not understand tongues' intended purpose when they were given.
Of course the ones who were given the gift had its benefits, too.
But they were not given the gift solely for the effect they would cause on the gift holder.
Those who are affected by the power find it entertaining and exciting... up to a point.

Certain Hindus taken over by a trance and can experience the same kind of supernatural power.
Pagan religions can have the same type of experience with an invisible power.

Go ahead and argue if you wish.

“With other tongues
and through the lips of foreigners
I will speak to this people,
but even then they will not listen to me,
says the Lord.”


Great gift? Eh?
.......
cherry-pick from chapter 14 all you want but the context is not shown by you. You circle your wagon( one horse wagon at that) round your bias.

14 chapter
1 Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. 2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries. 3 But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men. 4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5 I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.

6 But now, brethren, if I come to you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you unless I speak to you either by revelation, by knowledge, by prophesying, or by teaching? 7 Even things without life, whether flute or harp, when they make a sound, unless they make a distinction in the sounds, how will it be known what is piped or played? 8 For if the trumpet makes an uncertain sound, who will prepare himself for battle? 9 So likewise you, unless you utter by the tongue words easy to understand, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the air. 10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of languages in the world, and none of them is without significance. 11 Therefore, if I do not know the meaning of the language, I shall be a foreigner to him who speaks, and he who speaks will be a foreigner to me. 12 Even so you, since you are zealous for spiritual gifts, let it be for the edification of the church that you seek to excel.

13 Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret.
14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful.
15 What is the conclusion then?
I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding.
I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding.
16 Otherwise, if you bless with the spirit, how will he who occupies the place of the uninformed say "Amen" at your giving of thanks, since he does not understand what you say?
17 For you indeed give thanks well, but the other is not edified.
18 I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all; 19 yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue.
20 Brethren, do not be children in understanding; however, in malice be babes, but in understanding be mature.
21 In the law it is written: "With men of other tongues and other lips I will speak to this people; And yet, for all that, they will not hear Me," says the Lord.
22 Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophesying is not for unbelievers but for those who believe.

23 Therefore if the whole church comes together in one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those who are uninformed or unbelievers, will they not say that you are out of your mind? 24 But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an uninformed person comes in, he is convinced by all, he is convicted by all.

25 And thus the secrets of his heart are revealed; and so, falling down on his face, he will worship God and report that God is truly among you.

26 How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation.

Let all things be done for edification.

27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret.
28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God.
29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge. 30 But if anything is revealed to another who sits by, let the first keep silent. 31 For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged. 32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

34 Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. 35 And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.

36 Or did the word of God come originally from you? Or was it you only that it reached? 37 If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord. 38 But if anyone is ignorant, let him be ignorant.

39 Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues. 40 Let all things be done decently and in order.

I don't see anything here in 14 that says do not speak in tongues or they are not for today. Maybe you hindu text trumps the word of God.
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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as I have said before and proven true yet again. Those who are Cessationists not all but many of them and one here on this thread

Use outside sources of the Bible from paganism to disprove the word of God. Hinduism speaks of witches and equate the things Christians see in the word of God and where they got their understanding from as being demons. Ladies and Gentlemen and Christians, some would have you believe that if you read the word of God as God for the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues, a Hindu devil will overpower God and possess you. Those who hold to that can't shown from the Word of God one very simple truth.

Where does it say in the word of God they gifts of the Holy Spirit are not for today or have stopped. This very simple two-question.

Nope we have hinduism, and Pagan historians like Vigil and videos of the occult to support their position but NO BIBLE.

That is a false teacher, would you not agree? If am I am wrong and I have been wrong and many here who are Cessationists would never say that. Just show in the word of God please. I am suppose to trust their experience's or lack thereof. That is foolishness.
 
Mar 29, 2023
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Big deal about the video. Just you holding up a sign in the background means nothing. What lengths some con artists go to...smh.

Regardless, I tested your spirit and found it wanting. What you say doesn't hold up to what the Bible says. So I'm warning other Christians just like the NT writers have (are they slanderers too?). So warning others as the NT writers have is not against the Word of God.

And I don't have to worry. God WILL sort you out if you don't repent.


🐹

Well, I don't hate you. I love you for your passion for Jesus. May God bless you in all that you do for Him and His kingdom. I have asked for nothing. The Holy Spirit told me I'm not to ask for money, but anything that people bring to me, I am to take. All that I have, people came to me and said, "God wanted me to give this to you." And I took it and used it for God's Kingdom and purpose: to spread the message He gave me and to preach the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

My spirit is only in want of continuing His mission for my life and clarity in what that is. I have a part time job. I own my own house and car and take care of my teenage daughter. I have need for nothing He doesn't provide me. But if God wants me to travel and preach His message, He knows my needs. I'm a willing servant, not a rich one lol. He literally sends people to me with just enough money to get me to the place He wants me to go and back. All that I do, I do by faith and His provision.

I'm not saying all these things to defend myself. I say them so people know who I am and what I do. I'm just a regular guy who obeys our Lord Jesus Christ. I'm nothing special - and yet so special Jesus died for me. I would encourage you to pray to Jesus and say, "Bless my Brother Jon in his ministry serving you and let not evil come into his life. May Jon do all that You ask and desire of him for Your glory and not his." And thank you in advance for praying for me.
 

Aaron56

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And, that is why they had prophets *before* the cannon of Scripture became complete!
Scripture actually says prophets and other gifts are given for the edification of the Body until the Body comes to the full measure of maturity.

“And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ…”

There is nothing in here about completing the canon of scripture.
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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Scripture actually says prophets and other gifts are given for the edification of the Body until the Body comes to the full measure of maturity.

“And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ…”

There is nothing in here about completing the canon of scripture.
he think that the bible will speak by it's self, so there is no need for those two offices.
 

Magenta

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Jul 3, 2015
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Romans 12:6-8 We have different gifts according to the grace given us. If one’s gift is prophecy, let him use it in proportion to his faith; if it is serving, let him serve; if it is teaching, let him teach; 8if it is encouraging, let him encourage; if it is giving, let him give generously; if it is leading, let him lead with diligence; if it is showing mercy, let him do it cheerfully.
:)
 

cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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but I don't understand the point of it.
1) to glorify and sanctify Christ Jesus by proving His love for man
2) to illustrate the manifold dimensions and aspects of His person
3) as a Divine Watermark to confirm that the Word of God is genuine and authentic
4) as a Divine warning to the unbelieving
5) as a Divine comfort to the believing
6) as a guidebook for our daily walk with the Lord
7) as a guidebook for coming generations regarding what will shortly come to pass (think the time of the tribulation)

And an infinite number of other reasons.
 
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