What is the point in being a prophet?

[Genez]

No, you have to provide the text. Just name-calling will not help prove your point. Provide the book, chapter, and verse if you can.

Would I be wasting time with you?
There are people like yourself born every minute..
Would I be opening a door for you to further propagandize naïve believers?

Yes... there is a cosmic power that can over take certain souls.
You will tell them it's Biblical.



1 Corinthians 14:19-21

But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others ​

than ten thousand words in a tongue.​

​

Brothers and sisters, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be infants, ​

but in your thinking be adults. ​

​

In the Law (Torah) it is written:​

​

“With other tongues​

and through the lips of foreigners​

I will speak to this people, (to Jews)​

but even then they will not listen to me,​

says the Lord.”​

Tongues to be a sign to Jews who were rejecting Jesus Christ.
And, Paul said God knows it would not get that kind of unbeliever, saved!

I will speak to this people, (to Jews)​

but even then they will not listen to me,​

says the Lord.”​

Many Jews before 70AD kept rejecting Christ, even after witnessing to tongues. Then in 70 AD, Jerusalem and its Temple were destroyed by Rome.

No more need to do that to the unbelieving Jews!
God then moved onto the Gentiles.

 

[Genez]

Wait.... you believe in demonic enabling of false gifts, but not in the REAL ONES??
Just whose side are you on???

On the side of sound doctrine given to the Church to protect us from demonic influence.

Witches speak in tongues. Why? How?

Does the power have to come from God?

Paganism had tongues in its followers much earlier than what happened at Pentecost.


Virgil, writing about 17-19 BC, mentions a Sibyline priestess who would go into an ecstatic state where she was unified with the spirit of Apollo, and she would begin to speak in tongues, in ecstatic utterance. They claimed that it was known language. This is in pagan Greek worship of Apollo that she was probably possessed by a demon and spoke in a legitimate or a known language as well as in incoherent gibberish.

https://www.divineviewpoint.com/sane/dbm/setup/1Corinth/1Cor087.htm#:~:text=Going back to at least,the sign of super spirituality.


.

 

[Genez]

Your post prompted a question in me "What is greater: being a son of God or being a prophet?"

The answer is, of course, being a son of God. The gifts will cease but our place in Him is eternal and will never cease. When we are all in the presence of the Lord no one needs to tell us about the Lord.

And, for that matter, we will also no longer need pastor-teachers, evangelists , etc,

The last two were never said to cease. Were they?

 

[CS1]

Its in your corner,.

Give proof that the gifts you claim are for today? Are valid for today.

You can not prove that tongues are for today simply because some people enter into a trance.

You can not prove that what we see claimed for being tongues today serves the same function as tongues did in the early church.
They were to be a warning sign to those refusing to believe amongst Jews.

You have nothing to stand on, other some people today are vulnerable and hypnotizable...

Witches speak in tongues.
Tibetan monks have been known to speak in tongues.
Jim Jones of the Jones cult, spoke in tongues.

But, they were not the tongues of the Bible for the early church.

You must prove that tongues is for today in that case...
You can not do so.

There you have it...
Its in your court.

You are not serious. I do not have to prove to you the Gifts of the Holy Spirit are for today; I need to show you what the word of God states, and there is nothing in there that states they are not for today. You are disingenuous.

YOu take what people do with the gifts incorrectly and think because you have not seen the real operation of the gifts it must not Be so. That is foolishness. By that logic, I have not seen God, so it must not be so. Do you listen to yourself?


1 Corinthians chapter 12 through 14 Is the word of God.

12 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be ignorant: 2 You know that you were Gentiles, carried away to these dumb idols, however you were led. 3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.


4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:
8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit,
9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit,
10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.

11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.


I know you are unlearned, so I will try to help you again, as the word of God says, not me. There are some very important things in this text that you refuse to see.

• The Spirit of God is the one who enables one to know Lord Jesus as Lord. The Spirit has not stopped doing that.
• The diversities of gifts are by the same Spirit. They have not stopped
• Different ministries THe Same LORD; they have not stopped
• there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God they have not stopped

Same God, same Spirit, and same Lord working in gifts, ministries, and activities.
If you are not seeing it, that is your fault because God, who is Eternal, has not stopped doing any of those things; here is 1 Corinthians chapter 12:1-11

If you can show where it states, "The Spirit, the Lord, and God, who are eternal, are no longer involved in these three things here," that would be something.


Just because you have not seen it is not enough to change, take away, or add to the word of God because you are not seeing it. Moreover, the errors of immature Christians and abuses of the Gifts, activities, and ministries listed above that the Spirit, the Lord, and GOD are doing still don't mean they are not for today. If you have not seen the real, I suggest you ask and pray to the God of the Bible to help you.

Because the Gifts, Activities, and ministries have been going on for over 2000 years.

 

[CS1]

On the side of sound doctrine given to the Church to protect us from demonic influence.

Witches speak in tongues. Why? How?

Does the power have to come from God?

Paganism had tongues in its followers much earlier than what happened at Pentecost.


Virgil, writing about 17-19 BC, mentions a Sibyline priestess who would go into an ecstatic state where she was unified with the spirit of Apollo, and she would begin to speak in tongues, in ecstatic utterance. They claimed that it was known language. This is in pagan Greek worship of Apollo that she was probably possessed by a demon and spoke in a legitimate or a known language as well as in incoherent gibberish.

https://www.divineviewpoint.com/sane/dbm/setup/1Corinth/1Cor087.htm#:~:text=Going back to at least,the sign of super spirituality.


.

still do not see any Bible to refute 1cor chapters 12 through 14 .

 

[CS1]

On the side of sound doctrine given to the Church to protect us from demonic influence.

Witches speak in tongues. Why? How?

Does the power have to come from God?

Paganism had tongues in its followers much earlier than what happened at Pentecost.


Virgil, writing about 17-19 BC, mentions a Sibyline priestess who would go into an ecstatic state where she was unified with the spirit of Apollo, and she would begin to speak in tongues, in ecstatic utterance. They claimed that it was known language. This is in pagan Greek worship of Apollo that she was probably possessed by a demon and spoke in a legitimate or a known language as well as in incoherent gibberish.

https://www.divineviewpoint.com/sane/dbm/setup/1Corinth/1Cor087.htm#:~:text=Going back to at least,the sign of super spirituality.


.

Tongues in Paganism LOL, what a joke.Just as I did to John Mac.

You went out of the word of God to disprove the Gifts of the Holy Spirit taught in 1 Corinthians 12 through 14.


Lets deal with this lie:

In 1 Corinthians 13:8-13 we have the central passage that deals with the cessation of certain spiritual gifts.

That is not true. The word cessation is not there.

8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.
13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

What is not being said here is the explanation of "that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away. "
They (Cessationists) would have you believe that the perfect is the Canonization of the Bible so the Holy Spirit's gifts, ministries, and Activities are eliminated. The sad thing is that this is not proper exegesis because, as they should know, the context of 1 Corinthians 13 continues in chapter 14, and chapters 12, 13, and 14 are known as unit chapters. FYI, Paul did not write in chapter and verse. It was added later. Oops!!!! So the "Authorial intent and context doesn't end in chapter 13 with 6 verses. But they want you to think so.


What is interesting, theologically speaking, is that in the past thirty years there has been a tremendous amount of debate over this passage. At the beginning of the 20th century there were no Pentecostals or Charismatics but by the end of the century fully fifty per cent of professing Christians throughout the world identified themselves with in some way with the Pentecostal position. That is an astounding movement.

This is not entirely correct it is an attempt to by those who are cesscessionist to say because the Pentacostel Denomination started in the 1900's the term Pentacostel is Charismatic, yet the Moving of the Holy Spirit, and the gifts are well documented from the Book of ACTS through HISTORY TODAY. Hypocritical they are. Pentecostal is one who has experienced what is seen in the Book of Acts, just like the Baptist identify with what happen in the Bible. The term Charismatic comes from the Greek word kharisma ="charisma" in english.


An example of popularity by the end of the 20th century it is supposed that almost all Christian religious television stations were controlled by Pentecostals or Charismatics, and the same thing is true about most Christian radio stations. In fact, Christian music is dominated by people who have a Pentecostal-Charismatic theology, and that theology, which is more than simply speaking in tongues (its most obvious external manifestation), has impacted the modern church in incredible ways. They have set the agenda for worship, for music; they dominate in the hymnals.

Completely untrue Bot Radio, Bernie G Macgee, Chuck Smith, Chuck Swindal, and many other like them ruled Christian radio.

When PTL and TBN came on the scene, There were just as many Baptist Preacher on as Full Gospel. FYI RC Sproll was on TBN, Billy Graham, Jerry Fellor, EV Hill, and many others.

There are just as many non pentacostel music group as are Pentacostels.


Deal with the error and foolishness, but don't try to lie and say it's not for today because you have only seen the foolish. That is not God's fault but yours.

You can't use the word of God to prove your point, so you try to use paganism to explain the Gifts of the Holy Spirit.


That is some really strange fire.

 

[CS1]

Its in your corner,.

Give proof that the gifts you claim are for today? Are valid for today.

You can not prove that tongues are for today simply because some people enter into a trance.

You can not prove that what we see claimed for being tongues today serves the same function as tongues did in the early church.
They were to be a warning sign to those refusing to believe amongst Jews.

You have nothing to stand on, other some people today are vulnerable and hypnotizable...

Witches speak in tongues.
Tibetan monks have been known to speak in tongues.
Jim Jones of the Jones cult, spoke in tongues.

But, they were not the tongues of the Bible for the early church.

You must prove that tongues is for today in that case...
You can not do so.

There you have it...
Its in your court.

read 1cor chapter 12 through 14 Bible 101, guy.

 

[CS1]

On the side of sound doctrine given to the Church to protect us from demonic influence.

Witches speak in tongues. Why? How?

Does the power have to come from God?

Paganism had tongues in its followers much earlier than what happened at Pentecost.


Virgil, writing about 17-19 BC, mentions a Sibyline priestess who would go into an ecstatic state where she was unified with the spirit of Apollo, and she would begin to speak in tongues, in ecstatic utterance. They claimed that it was known language. This is in pagan Greek worship of Apollo that she was probably possessed by a demon and spoke in a legitimate or a known language as well as in incoherent gibberish.

https://www.divineviewpoint.com/sane/dbm/setup/1Corinth/1Cor087.htm#:~:text=Going back to at least,the sign of super spirituality.


.

One last thing: this site you dropped here has no author, Publisher, or name of the person to provide a proper quote and citation. That was almost Plagiarism, LOL.

 

[Aaron56]

And, for that matter, we will also no longer need pastor-teachers, evangelists , etc,

The last two were never said to cease. Were they?

All endowments of power will cease as they are given in partial form. When the complete comes there will be no need of, or tolerance for, the partial.

 

[Aaron56]

And, for that matter, we will also no longer need pastor-teachers, evangelists , etc,

The last two were never said to cease. Were they?

Paul wrote to the Corinthians:


8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

Paul knew what “the perfect” was. He would later (maybe 10 years or so) write about the subject to the Ephesians:

“And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— 16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.”

The object of perfection is Christ Himself. The Body is being perfected (completed) in Him.

It makes perfect sense to see that, when all are complete in Him there, is no need for a partial endowment of any power: He will be in us and we will be in Him. This was the actual prayer of Jesus in John. Here He is praying for all believers:

Sanctify them (this is to perfect them, complete them) by Your truth. Your word is truth. 18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.
20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.
24 “Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.

Jesus was one man. He was raised as the Christ who is a many-membered, spiritual man. We, the Body of believers, are being made perfect in Him. Until this is done, perfected, some are given endowments of power to complete the work. All endowments are for the edifying and building of the body to the end that is “the perfect man”: Christ.

 

[Genez]

12 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be ignorant: 2 You know that you were Gentiles, carried away to these dumb idols, however you were led. 3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.

No one being carried along by the Spirit can say those things. True.

But, for a faker?
The one who memorizes Scripture, to be used in his defense?
He can choose to concentrate in his flesh and say "Jesus is Lord!"

Here is how Jesus said evil (unbelieving) men will do it.

Matthew 7:21-23

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, ​

but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day ​

many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast ​

out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ ​

And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers ​

of lawlessness.’ Matthew 7:21-23​

See what Matthew 7:21-23 says?

It says someone faking, being a teacher from God... One who studies, and knows what the Scriptures say?
He can easily will himself to call Jesus, Lord.

And, to also know enough to say the name of Jesus when setting us up for demons faking an exorcism, to make the
fake teacher look good. Demons partake in the deception...

Jesus does not want His believers to be dumb and deceived.
He wants us to become informed and able to rightly divide the Word of God.

And... to actually leave those who deceive, to be used to weed out from His church, those who refuse to walk in Spirit and in Truth.

........

 

[Genez]

All endowments of power will cease as they are given in partial form. When the complete comes there will be no need of, or tolerance for, the partial.

I got that. But why were those gifts not mentioned?

Why not simply say, all gifts will cease, if your understanding were the case?

 

[Genez]

One last thing: this site you dropped here has no author, Publisher, or name of the person to provide a proper quote and citation. That was almost Plagiarism, LOL.

It can hardly be called plagiarism when the author's name of what was quoted was cited.
It would be plagiarism if the one posting that page claimed he was the one citing Virgil's words, and not mention Virgil.

Look!

Virgil, writing about 17-19 BC, mentions a Sibyline priestess who would go into an ecstatic state where she was unified with the spirit of Apollo, and she would begin to speak in tongues, in ecstatic utterance. They claimed that it was known language. This is in pagan Greek worship of Apollo that she was probably possessed by a demon and spoke in a legitimate or a known language as well as in incoherent gibberish.
https://www.divineviewpoint.com/san...ck to at least,the sign of super spirituality.

Was Virgil making stuff up?

.....

 

[Genez]

Paul wrote to the Corinthians:

8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

The Greek indicates that the ending of this gifts will not be in the same way.
It can not be speaking of their end when we are taken to heaven.

For one will be instantaneous. One will fade out, and slowly die down.
All would end instantly if the theory the gifts will cease when we get into heaven.

 

[CS1]

No one being carried along by the Spirit can say those things. True.

But, for a faker?
The one who memorizes Scripture, to be used in his defense?
He can choose to concentrate in his flesh and say "Jesus is Lord!"

Here is how Jesus said evil (unbelieving) men will do it.

Matthew 7:21-23

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, ​

but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day ​

many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast ​

out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ ​

And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers ​

of lawlessness.’ Matthew 7:21-23​

See what Matthew 7:21-23 says?

It says someone faking, being a teacher from God... One who studies, and knows what the Scriptures say?
He can easily will himself to call Jesus, Lord.

And, to also know enough to say the name of Jesus when setting us up for demons faking an exorcism, to make the
fake teacher look good. Demons partake in the deception...

Jesus does not want His believers to be dumb and deceived.
He wants us to become informed and able to rightly divide the Word of God.

And... to actually leave those who deceive, to be used to weed out from His church, those who refuse to walk in Spirit and in Truth.

........

if you have and issue with the fake please do. as for as fake you don't know the context of 1cor 12 :3

3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.

The context here is of those who were once drawn away by dumb idols. Also demon are not more powerful than God or the gospel.

Matthew 7:21-23 amen you are very much correct
but so will those who cause one to stumble or fall, and false teachers, and drunkers, liars and adulterers.

all of those thing as bad as they are do not equate to the gifts nor being for today which you have not provided biblically.

 

[CS1]

It can hardly be called plagiarism when the author's name of what was quoted was cited.
It would be plagiarism if the one posting that page claimed he was the one citing Virgil's words, and not mention Virgil.

Look!

Virgil, writing about 17-19 BC, mentions a Sibyline priestess who would go into an ecstatic state where she was unified with the spirit of Apollo, and she would begin to speak in tongues, in ecstatic utterance. They claimed that it was known language. This is in pagan Greek worship of Apollo that she was probably possessed by a demon and spoke in a legitimate or a known language as well as in incoherent gibberish.
https://www.divineviewpoint.com/san...ck to at least,the sign of super spirituality.

Was Virgil making stuff up?

.....

ok, you play your GAME you like that you posted. The context is not truth of your posting which I have already stated

 

[CS1]

ok, you play your GAME you like that you posted. The context is not truth of your posting which I have already stated

who was it that put that page together? Where are the sources of those that were used? Virgil, writing about 17-19 BC, did you write that page and add that comment where is your supporting document? What a joke. Cut and paste better next time.

 

[Genez]

You like to fight....

You like set up another to enter into the kind of fight you have a natural gift for./

Truth is? You can not prove anything you claimed.
Not really prove it.

So? You maneuver another to waste time in a fight, so your inability to prove your point will not be noticed. .

 

[Scribe]

The Greek indicates that the ending of this gifts will not be in the same way.
It can not be speaking of their end when we are taken to heaven.

For one will be instantaneous. One will fade out, and slowly die down.
All would end instantly if the theory the gifts will cease when we get into heaven.

Just jumping into the conversation here to make an observation:

Though one may have an opinion based on their understanding of church history (whether that view is accurate should be determined based on a thorough study of all church history sources) that the gifts of the Holy Spirit faded from the church and are no longer needed today, they cannot use 1 Corinthians 13 to support that opinion.

In Philippians, the same author Paul, wrote about not being perfect yet, but that he was reaching for it and would attain it when he obtained the resurrection from the dead. Therefore using the rule of hermeneutics of taking into consideration what else the author has said about "when that which is perfect is come" we understand that Pau'ls understanding of "when that which is perfect is come" is when he will be in his post resurrection state. It is not Jesus, or the second coming but rather what happens to us after that, The resurrection of our bodies that allows us to obtain "perfection" and only then will gifts of the Holy Spirit cease to be needed in the Church which is still in it's (pre resurrection state).

Even F.F. Bruce who was a ceasationist in his opinions about speaking in tongues, did nevertheless interpret "that which is perfect is come" as a reference to our post resurrection state.

Many intellectually honest scholars who are ceasationists have chided those who used 1 Cor 13 to support their views that the writing of Revelation marked the "that which is perfect is come" as not being intellectually honest in using this passage for that purpose. The majority ceasationist scholars agree that the post resurrection state is "that which is perfect is come."

Church of Christ teachers use 1 Cor 13 to support thier view that it is the writing of the scriptures that Paul meant and by doing so they lose their credibility as honest translators. They stand out as having become quite radical in taking such a stand and open themselves up to accusations of willfully handling the Word of God decietfully.

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

I know this is my first thread, but I came to this site to ask people's opinions.

God has called me to be a prophet,

WHO CARES WHAT PEOPLE'S OPINIONS ARE???? IF you're a Prophet, then SPEAK YOUR PROPHESY!!! That's what Prophets do.

THEN as instructed in 1 Cor 14 what you say will be judged/confirmed, or judged/rejected by others on the basis of God's WORD as HE has chosen to manifest it.

I don't understand the point of it.

Are you a "Prophet" or not??? Prophets SPEAK GOD'S WORD. That in and of itself is "THE POINT". You're apparently saying that God's WORD is worthless, and ineffective based on whether or not your "Feelings get hurt".

What good is it to know what is going to happen? What good is it to tell people what's going to happen?

ARE YOU A "PROPHET OR NOT???? A "Prophet wouldn't CARE about the result of their prophesy, unless they have NO TRUST IN GOD to carry out His Will, and convict people of their SIN.

When I do tell people what is going to happen, they don't believe me and they come up with any explanation they can to say that what God has shown me will happen won't happen.

SO WHAT???? A "Prophet is OBEDIENT to their calling, and speak forth God's WORD when they're burdened to!!!!

Even the most devout Christians on this forum will not be able to accept what I have to say. God is going to do a thing so great and terrible that you cannot even fathom it, let alone accept it.

ARE YOU A "PROPHET" OR NOT???? If your are, then SPEAK YOUR PROPHETIC MESSAGE!!!! All you've done so far is wail and cry about how you'll be perceived, and how spiritually stupid all of us are!!!

ARE YOU A "PROPHET OR NOT???? If you have a message, then SPEAK IT!!!