Should Church attire be criticized?
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My pleasure
Fellowship is best, in my personal opinion, for it is not about people, rather God's true Love of 1 Cor 13:4-7 for me to see and trust God to impute in me also and remain humble in it, as I see that happening in you too, thank you
This is Paul to the Corinthians:
"For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win the more; 20 and to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law, that I might win those who are under the law; 21 to those who are without law, as without law (not being without law toward God, but under law toward Christ), that I might win those who are without law; 22 to the weak I became as weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. 23 Now this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I may be partaker of it with you."
How will the people receive you? If they will receive you more readily if you wear a suit jacket, wear a suit jacket. If jeans, wear jeans. Etc. Although we have freedom from the traditions of men we are sent to men as ambassadors. And, if as ambassadors, then we are free to take part in their traditions as long as their traditions are not sin.
"Should we wear this or that?" is a question from a child. To them, I say "Wear what your conscience tells you." Knowing to whom you are sent (only those with wisdom are sent) settles the matter before asking: wear what the people expect. The exception is "What the Lord shows you directly."
I knew two men who were sent by God to people in South Africa. Although apartheid was illegal then it was still fresh in the traditions of the people (You can set the people free but they can remain slaves in their thinking and, so, remain slaves in their mannerisms.) One man was black and the other was a white man, both from the United States.
Although the black man could carry his own luggage, he asked the white man to do so. Since they were friends and believers, both men knew the reason: in South Africa seeing a white man serve a black man did violence against the mindset of apartheid that held the black people in bondage. The men who were sent knew they represented the Kingdom of God and not any tradition of man. This simple act made the people all the more ready to hear the message from the men who were sent.
"For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win the more; 20 and to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law, that I might win those who are under the law; 21 to those who are without law, as without law (not being without law toward God, but under law toward Christ), that I might win those who are without law; 22 to the weak I became as weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. 23 Now this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I may be partaker of it with you."
How will the people receive you? If they will receive you more readily if you wear a suit jacket, wear a suit jacket. If jeans, wear jeans. Etc. Although we have freedom from the traditions of men we are sent to men as ambassadors. And, if as ambassadors, then we are free to take part in their traditions as long as their traditions are not sin.
"Should we wear this or that?" is a question from a child. To them, I say "Wear what your conscience tells you." Knowing to whom you are sent (only those with wisdom are sent) settles the matter before asking: wear what the people expect. The exception is "What the Lord shows you directly."
I knew two men who were sent by God to people in South Africa. Although apartheid was illegal then it was still fresh in the traditions of the people (You can set the people free but they can remain slaves in their thinking and, so, remain slaves in their mannerisms.) One man was black and the other was a white man, both from the United States.
Although the black man could carry his own luggage, he asked the white man to do so. Since they were friends and believers, both men knew the reason: in South Africa seeing a white man serve a black man did violence against the mindset of apartheid that held the black people in bondage. The men who were sent knew they represented the Kingdom of God and not any tradition of man. This simple act made the people all the more ready to hear the message from the men who were sent.
The bible makes mention of how God clothed the lilies of the field. Said that even Solomon was not dressed in such splendor. What one believes in most important to God is not necessarily the same as what God actually considers to be most important.
I haven't said that God doesn't care. Clearly, I have already said about 100 times that I do not believe (I do not believe, based on what the Bible says) that it is more important than what you have inside your heart. If you wanted to give me a wider perspective, we would not be arguing about things that clearly have not been stated in the Bible, at least not for this dispensation of Grace. As I told you, if that makes you feel better and if you feel that you are doing it for the glory of God, you have every right to do it. I have never said that I am against dressing well to go to church.
I have been in churches where people dress very elegantly and the lady who ministered praise on one occasion, after having ministered praise, sat down like everyone else to listen to the preaching and then a homeless man came in and sat next to her and the thing that she did was look at him with a face of contempt and disgust and changed seats.
It has also happened to me that while I was at an international conference, one of the pastor, dressed in a suit, while I was in the bathroom, came and stood next to me in the urinals and asked me if I would please let him see my tool. So that's why I say, only God can know what is truly in our hearts no matter what one appears to be on the outside.
Same.
I would love to have an account of Paul's 13+ years of training before being sent, with Barnabas, as an apostle. I imagine many of the lessons were difficult for Paul at first.
Amen to that friend in the risen Son Jesus
I once wore an Olympia beer shirt to a Bible study. I was told to wear it. I did and the outcome that seemed bad at first turned out to be for the good of God all in all
God is good all the time as good is God all the time
Thank you, now back to reading the rest of your post
that last part, thank you deeply. This reminded me of the book "the cross and the switch blade"
Yeap, it is so important to God how we dress to go to Church that he dedicates an entire chapter to it, in the book that no one knows about. In Isaiah 1 and Isaiah 58 it is clear what matters to God more than the traditions of men.
As usual, few people think about the sinner.
In a sinner's mind when they see someone dressed rich, the first thing that crosses their minds is rich snob.
When a sinner walks into a rich church with people dressed to kill, they will one of three things:
1. Feel totally out of place with all eyes on them & they leave & never come back.
2. Knowing it's a rich church, they will take advantage of as many acts of charity as they can.
3. Join up & kiss-up to them so they can join one of their secret societies, knowing they will get special financial attention from them.
All of which are due to the wrong message the rich church portrays to the public.
Not every church does this, of course.
Family-oriented churches(not the family run type) can do a better job making friends & leading them to Christ.
WWJD? We actually know what He did.He wore a simple white robe(not rich royal purple) & had a loving attitude that could meet any sinner on his own level.
It didn't bother Jesus that Gadara's maniac was demon possessed & naked .
Jesus didn't care that the Samaritan woman had a whorish reputation; He gave her living water.
Jesus never acted above anyone even though He was.
What good then, is a successful-looking over-the-top church when its members can't come down off their high horse to meet the needs of the poor like the Bible talks about?
In a sinner's mind when they see someone dressed rich, the first thing that crosses their minds is rich snob.
When a sinner walks into a rich church with people dressed to kill, they will one of three things:
1. Feel totally out of place with all eyes on them & they leave & never come back.
2. Knowing it's a rich church, they will take advantage of as many acts of charity as they can.
3. Join up & kiss-up to them so they can join one of their secret societies, knowing they will get special financial attention from them.
All of which are due to the wrong message the rich church portrays to the public.
Not every church does this, of course.
Family-oriented churches(not the family run type) can do a better job making friends & leading them to Christ.
WWJD? We actually know what He did.He wore a simple white robe(not rich royal purple) & had a loving attitude that could meet any sinner on his own level.
It didn't bother Jesus that Gadara's maniac was demon possessed & naked .
Jesus didn't care that the Samaritan woman had a whorish reputation; He gave her living water.
Jesus never acted above anyone even though He was.
What good then, is a successful-looking over-the-top church when its members can't come down off their high horse to meet the needs of the poor like the Bible talks about?
And as I said, what you wear is a matter of the heart if you are truly seeking God's glory...whatsoever you do, do to the glory of God.
See post #53 that @Magenta wrote regarding clothing, from the book of Matthew and Isaiah. I'm reasonably certain that you know of these books. The father of the prodigal son, when he finally came back to him, told his servants to put the best robe on him.
That verse refers to the worries that man has every day and Jesus tells them that they should not worry about what they are going to eat or wear, that if God gives the birds of the sky their daily sustenance and that if the flowers of the field that today they grow and tomorrow they are cut off, they dress better than Solomon the more God would give us clothes to be able to clothe ourselves. Like the Israelis, they were certain that their clothing and sandals were not damaged in 40 years because God wanted it that way and they were not exactly luxury clothing or sandals. That verse has nothing to do with how we should dress to go somewhere, it only says that God will not leave you without clothes to wear.
Job 1:21 - 22
He said, “Naked I came from my mother’s womb,
And naked I shall return there.
The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away.
Blessed be the name of the LORD.”
Through all this Job did not sin nor did he blame God.
Job 1:21b; 13:15a
He said, “Naked I came from my mother’s womb,
And naked I shall return there.
The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away.
Blessed be the name of the LORD.”
Through all this Job did not sin nor did he blame God.
Job 1:21b; 13:15a
And like I have said: So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, (OR DRESS CODES),..
If you want to dress elegantly to go to church and you are one of those who will judge those who do not want or cannot dress elegantly, then do it too. I have already said it about 101 times, that you have every right to do so, not to judge those who do not want to dress like you, but to dress as you want to. With a tuxedo if you want or in Crocs too, if you want as well.
I agree about the not to worry reference.
Your original point was along the lines of choosing God rather than choosing what clothes to wear, as if clothing was not an important matter in the eyes of God.
Our heavenly father knows that we need certain things to survive and even thrive, such as clothing, food, shelter, etc. My contention is that these seemingly small things are indeed most important in the eyes of God.
The prodigal son reference is that it is indeed appropriate, at given times, to dress accordingly.
I haven't judged you, but neither have you received what I shared.
Grace and peace.
The trendy mega church pastors have led their churches to try to dress in the fashions that you really don't see much of in my town unless you look for it. One common style I've seen is the button up shirts on men with it pulled out and long length hanging out over worn out blue jeans.
I don't really care what they want to wear because I'm not a member or listening to their sermons. It's just an observation.
BTW, you really got blessed with nice jackets that the Lord wanted to give you. Those are gifts!