Will There Be A Rapture?

DavyP · Sep 3, 2024

Well, if you're trying to use that reasoning to support man's pre-trib rapture theory, that really does not work.

Lord Jesus was emphatic about the timing and order of His future return to gather His Church being AFTER... the tribulation, even as Apostle Paul showed in 1 Thessalonians 4 with the asleep saints being resurrected on that day of Christ's future return.

I'm well aware that man's pre-trib rapture theory believes Christ's 2nd coming is actually a 3rd coming, with all His Church, when it is not a 3rd coming. So believing that Jesus ascended to Heaven more than once is likewise an adding to the Scripture.

There are only... two comings written of in God's Word for Lord Jesus Christ. His 1st coming was to be meek as a lamb to be crucified for the remission of sins of those who believe. And His 2nd coming will be His future return with His army from Heaven on the last day... of this world, which also is when Paul showed the rapture of the Church will occur.

DavyP · Sep 3, 2024

wolfwint said:

Yes, many will... see, with some in shame, when Jesus appears after the tribulation.

homwardbound · Sep 3, 2024

DavyP said:

there is a tremendous amount fro everyone to learn
He was risen, Mary saw him and tried to touch him. Jesus stopped her, said to her he had not yet ascended John 20
He then ascended, telling her to go to the others to tell them he has risen. He showed up there in the upper room to them. Jesus as risen , hung out with the disciples for forty days, before going. back to Heaven. As they saw him leave on that cloud
Amazing, therefore so yes it was he went back to Heaven to first place this does work of himself willingly on the Mercy seat, the true Church in Heaven not here on earth.
However you or others sees this is how others see it, Love you all is the call from God that is proven to me in risen Son
Hoping the best for us all

homwardbound · Sep 3, 2024

DavyP said:

However it turns out is how it will turn out. We the people want to figure it out, even as to this day, as religious leaders back then in the time of Jesus coming in did not believe him. Even searched out scriptures that prophesied of his coming. And so, he did not come as they thought he would. Just like we today, trying to figure out the end, through written scriptures, straining out gnats, swallowing camels.
Surprise, surprise, surprise
he is risen, we are forgiven (reconciled) for new life to begin inn us today and everyday after belief to this truth given us to just love all is the call.
It is easy to love those that love you back. Not so easy to love those that do not.
See Matthew 5, 6, 7 and ask God to reveal to you the truth in loving all as he did by Son on that cross, that he is risen from the dead, presently and forever to just trust and not create any problems
Love all by God for us in Son to us, is what I see, we the people need to see and be new in trust to, thank you

DavyP · Sep 3, 2024

homwardbound said:

there is a tremendous amount fro everyone to learn
He was risen, Mary saw him and tried to touch him. Jesus stopped her, said to her he had not yet ascended John 20
He then ascended, telling her to go to the others to tell them he has risen. He showed up there in the upper room to them. Jesus as risen , hung out with the disciples for forty days, before going. back to Heaven. As they saw him leave on that cloud
Amazing, therefore so yes it was he went back to Heaven to first place this does work of himself willingly on the Mercy seat, the true Church in Heaven not here on earth.
However you or others sees this is how others see it, Love you all is the call from God that is proven to me in risen Son
Hoping the best for us all

None of that involves man's pre-trib rapture theory though about a 3rd coming.

homwardbound · Sep 3, 2024

DavyP said:

you might want to read the entire post,
He was risen left to Heaven and then came back here to earth and then left again
however you see it you see it and thank you, I am just sharing too, thank you

DavyP · Sep 3, 2024

homwardbound said:

I'm sorry brother/sister, I cannot go with that kind of attitude, as I'd be doing Christ a disservice if I agreed with it.

When Christ gave us plain and simple Bible Scripture to know in what order of events to expect His future return, even how... that is to happen, He meant it, as written.

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

homwardbound · Sep 3, 2024

DavyP said:

Okay, thanks I do believe in the coming back of Jesus for us. seeing in Revelations, his return for the new earth to begin and hand back the keys to Father then. Therefore daily presently I see to take care of today in trust to Father and Son as still won for me and everyone else also, whether another one believes this or not . I see to daily stand in trust and not be concerned too much about future stuff, why?
There is enough evil in today, God is out taking care of my tomorrow.
And everyone else's too. It is whenever "I" am trying to figure it out, I am somehow in doubt, beating me up and possibly others thinking, I got it and others do not. God forbid
At least for me, thanks

homwardbound · Sep 3, 2024

homwardbound said:

Okay, thanks I do believe in the coming back of Jesus for us. seeing in Revelations, his return for the new earth to begin and hand back the keys to Father then. Therefore daily presently I see to take care of today in trust to Father and Son as still won for me and everyone else also, whether another one believes this or not . I see to daily stand in trust and not be concerned too much about future stuff, why?
There is enough evil in today, God is out taking care of my tomorrow.
And everyone else's too. It is whenever "I" am trying to figure it out, I am somehow in doubt, beating me up and possibly others thinking, I got it and others do not. God forbid
At least for me, thanks

Oh, I am male, in. need of God to lead me in trust to wha tis done for me by Son to me

TheDivineWatermark · Sep 3, 2024

DavyP said:

Nor does it "work" to disregard 1Th3:13 (in the CONTEXT of 1Th4) simply because it doesn't happen to jive with "your [post-trib Rapture] take on things".

I'm going to say this in love and try to explain in such a way that you can grasp what I'm meaning...

... remember as a kid, doing one of those "Connect the Dots" pages, that once completed (connecting dots 1 through 100) it would form a complete picture?

What I see you doing is "connecting" dots 1, 10, and 100 (forming a sort of zig-zag set of jagged lines) because you think they "look similar" (1, 10, 100--they DO kinda "look similar"). But you are missing so many dots (in the proper sequence all the numbers of "1 to 100") that you are coming up short of seeing "the whole [correct] picture".

If you want to discuss the ideas of "THIRD" in relation to the word "COME" (re: Jesus), then see John 21:13-14 WHICH USES THOSE TWO WORDS (re: Him)... all [times] of which took place "after He was risen from the dead".

In Scripture, there is no text referencing "[His] SECOND coming/advent" (it is a LABEL used by us/ppl to help communicate what it is we are referring to, when discussing biblical Subjects... i.e. a man made designation--which CAN at times cause confusion).

BTW, Heb10:28's "a second time apart from sin shall appear" isn't saying "[His] Second ADVENT/COMING"(as though, in contrast to "His FIRST advent/coming");
The FIRST TIME "apart from sin" that He appeared [passive] was AFTER His resurrection.

So you do not believe that 1Cor15:20 (re: His resurrection) saying "FIRSTFRUIT" (in that verse), was a literal fulfillment of Leviticus 23:10-12 ON "FIRSTFRUIT" [ON THAT EXACT DATE] (please read that context)?

He fulfilled Ex12:3,5,6 (the selection of the lamb) ON THE VERY DAY prescribed (Nisan 10--what we call Palm Sunday) and was examined for those prescribed days (see Ex12:6);

He fulfilled Passover;

Why are you thinking He did not fulfill Lev23:10-12 (FIRSTFRUIT), when 1Cor15:20 SAYS this, and when Jesus Himself TOLD Mary Magdalene "I ASCEND [active]"... yet later that very evening (way late in the evening) He ENCOURAGED THEM to touch Him (whereas the REASON He had told MM NOT to touch Him was BECAUSE ["FOR"] He had "NOT YET ASCENDED"... AND He told her to "GO... and SAY UNTO" them this fact... which she did. Why tell MM to go say to them what He could say to them Himself later that very day at the evening meal IF He was referring to the "40-days LATER" event of Him traveling up to Heaven in Acts 1?)

Yeah, He SAID to her "I ASCEND"... and HE DID! (ON [and FULFILLING] THE VERY DATE OF "FIRSTFRUIT" - Lev23:10-12 / 1Cor15:20!)

And yet, IN SCRIPTURE we see:

--"[...thou, Bethlehem Ephratah... out of thee] shall he COME forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel..." - Micah 5:2; and

--"...behold, thy King COMETH unto thee: ...riding upon an ass..." - Zechariah 9:9 [see Lk19:41-44];

So here we see two DISTINCT "comings" (of Him) that were THIRTY-SOME YEARS apart (iow, they were not IDENTICAL "comings" but distinct--though all falling under the umbrella of what *we* LABEL His First Advent)

"ON the last day... of this world" is NOT a BIBLICAL phrase.

One will not find that idea being conveyed in the passages using the phrase "the last day" you are drawing from.

DavyP said:

What you are missing here is:

--this passage CONNECTS BACK with Isaiah 27:9,12-13 (about a SPECIFIC THING)...

--so Isaiah 27:9 (of that context) CONNECTS with both Romans 11:27 (and context); as well as Daniel 9:24 [parts] and its context pertaining to "____ ARE DETERMINED UPON *thy* [Daniel's] people, AND UPON *thy* [Daniel's] holy city"--the PEOPLE WHO HAVE been "judicially SCATTERED"... TO THE "FOUR WINDS" (and WHO will be gathered FROM THENCE in this Matt24:29-31 passage);
Notice the "GREAT" trumpet sound which also CONNECTS these TWO passages;
Notice that THEY will be "gathered" (by ANGELS that HE "SHALL SEND" to do so) "ONE BY ONE" (not AS ONE, as *WE* [/the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY] will be!)

"The Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" is NOT who've been judicially scattered (see Eph1:20-23 WHEN [as to ITS existence]).

You are conflating DISTINCT things simply because they LOOK SIMILAR (numbers 1, 10, and 100), but consequently are missing the big picture (the correct SEQUENCE of "connecting ALL the dots," not merely the few you are "connecting" in a zig-zag [insufficient] kind of manner).

Do not "leave out" 1Th3:13... which CONNECTS with both "the BEMA of Christ" for REWARD/AWARD (which is designated solely for "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"), like when Paul said he will receive a "CROWN / stephanos" *IN THAT DAY* (and not to him only), which is not referring to the day he DIES... and CONNECTS ALSO with what we SEE being SHOWN in Rev4:4c (crowns / stephanous")!

And this is just for starters! lol (we're, like, on "dot number 4" at this point!

)

TheDivineWatermark · Sep 4, 2024

DavyP said:

What it seems you are doing here (I'm not sure), is suggesting that the "FROM" is where their starting-location is, and that the "TO" in this text is speaking of what their "destination-location" is (as though it is "TO the uttermost part of heaven"--THAT location--since the "entrance hall / vestibule of Heaven" is not quite "there," so to speak, they have to be taken "TO the UTTERMOST PART of heaven").

But this text is not conveying such an idea.

COMPARE the language, for example, in Nehemiah 1:8-9... and consider what it is conveying:

-- "Remember, I beseech thee, the word that thou commandedst thy servant Moses, saying, If ye transgress, I will scatter you abroad among the nations:

But if ye turn unto me, and keep my commandments, and do them; though there were of you cast out unto the uttermost part of the heaven, yet will I gather them from thence, and will bring them unto the place that I have chosen to set my name there."

[note that the words in red, the "scatter you" and the "[(those) OF you] cast out," are conveying comparable things--The latter of these two is not saying ppl will be "CAST OUT into [the third] Heaven" (UP THERE)... the passage simply is not conveying such an idea]

Same for passages like:

-- Jer 49:36 - And upon Elam will I bring the four winds from the four quarters of heaven, and will scatter them toward all those winds; and there shall be no nation whither the outcasts of Elam shall not come.

-- Dan 11:4 - And when he shall stand up, his kingdom shall be broken, and shall be divided toward the four winds of heaven; and not to his posterity, nor according to his dominion which he ruled: for his kingdom shall be plucked up, even for others beside those.

-- Zec 2:6 - Ho, ho, come forth, and flee from the land of the north, saith the LORD: for I have spread you abroad as the four winds of the heaven, saith the LORD.

The phrase in Matt24 and Mk 13 is conveying, FROM the four winds (i.e. from the extremities--NO PLACE LEFT OUT from whence they'll be "gathered"... into ONE PLACE upon the earth--Isaiah 27:9,12-13 says "WHERE" that is... this is NOT a "Rapture [/SNATCH]" passage--They will be "gathered" [as it states] "ONE BY ONE" [not "SNATCHED" in one "snatch-action," like WE/the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY will be])

TheDivineWatermark · Sep 4, 2024

DavyP said:

The text in Revelation 19:14 uses the PLURAL form of this word ^ ("armIES [PLURAL]").

I've not seen anywhere in Scripture where the PLURAL FORM of this word is used when referring to angels (alone), though many folks like to suggest that angels (alone) is what is being referenced here in this text. Not sure if that's your idea also, or not.

[let the readers COMPARE what is stated in Rev1:5-6a with that which the (then) already-awarded (thus glorified) "24 elders" are saying in Rev5:9 - "and hast redeemed US to God by thy blood out-of EVERY..." (and further, what is said of them in v.10a [matching Rev1:5-6a] and then in v.10b, "[and they, or we] SHALL reign on the earth")]

Psalm1 · Sep 4, 2024

tedincarolina said:

Hi @DavyP

I believe that there will be days after the gathering of the saints. In the Revelation, we find that Jesus first gathers his and then God's angel comes and delivers those left behind into the winepress of God's wrath. Those days are then described for us as the bowl judgments that are poured out upon the earth. They will be dreadful days for those who are left to deal with His wrath.

I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one like a son of man with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand. Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, “Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” So he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested. Another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. Still another angel, who had charge of the fire, came from the altar and called in a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, “Take your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the earth’s vine, because its grapes are ripe.” The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath. They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horses’ bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia.

That's a lot of blood that will be flowing right here upon the earth, after Jesus removes those who he knows.

The ones left behind after the pretrib rapture face the Antichrist as is declared in mat 24 " half left" and mat 25 half taken.
Mat 24:38 Jesus frames the setting of removal as in "before tge flood".
No rapture postrib, as the mark in the head is taken by all earth's inhabitants...or they are martyred for refusing. Millions martyred.
No such thing as a postrib rapture.

homwardbound · Sep 4, 2024

TheDivineWatermark said:

Nor does it "work" to disregard 1Th3:13 (in the CONTEXT of 1Th4) simply because it doesn't happen to jive with "your [post-trib Rapture] take on things".

I'm going to say this in love and try to explain in such a way that you can grasp what I'm meaning...

... remember as a kid, doing one of those "Connect the Dots" pages, that once completed (connecting dots 1 through 100) it would form a complete picture?

What I see you doing is "connecting" dots 1, 10, and 100 (forming a sort of zig-zag set of jagged lines) because you think they "look similar" (1, 10, 100--they DO kinda "look similar"). But you are missing so many dots (in the proper sequence all the numbers of "1 to 100") that you are coming up short of seeing "the whole [correct] picture".

If you want to discuss the ideas of "THIRD" in relation to the word "COME" (re: Jesus), then see John 21:13-14 WHICH USES THOSE TWO WORDS (re: Him)... all [times] of which took place "after He was risen from the dead".

In Scripture, there is no text referencing "[His] SECOND coming/advent" (it is a LABEL used by us/ppl to help communicate what it is we are referring to, when discussing biblical Subjects... i.e. a man made designation--which CAN at times cause confusion).

BTW, Heb10:28's "a second time apart from sin shall appear" isn't saying "[His] Second ADVENT/COMING"(as though, in contrast to "His FIRST advent/coming");
The FIRST TIME "apart from sin" that He appeared [passive] was AFTER His resurrection.

So you do not believe that 1Cor15:20 (re: His resurrection) saying "FIRSTFRUIT" (in that verse), was a literal fulfillment of Leviticus 23:10-12 ON "FIRSTFRUIT" [ON THAT EXACT DATE] (please read that context)?

He fulfilled Ex12:3,5,6 (the selection of the lamb) ON THE VERY DAY prescribed (Nisan 10--what we call Palm Sunday) and was examined for those prescribed days (see Ex12:6);

He fulfilled Passover;

Why are you thinking He did not fulfill Lev23:10-12 (FIRSTFRUIT), when 1Cor15:20 SAYS this, and when Jesus Himself TOLD Mary Magdalene "I ASCEND [active]"... yet later that very evening (way late in the evening) He ENCOURAGED THEM to touch Him (whereas the REASON He had told MM NOT to touch Him was BECAUSE ["FOR"] He had "NOT YET ASCENDED"... AND He told her to "GO... and SAY UNTO" them this fact... which she did. Why tell MM to go say to them what He could say to them Himself later that very day at the evening meal IF He was referring to the "40-days LATER" event of Him traveling up to Heaven in Acts 1?)

Yeah, He SAID to her "I ASCEND"... and HE DID! (ON [and FULFILLING] THE VERY DATE OF "FIRSTFRUIT" - Lev23:10-12 / 1Cor15:20!)

And yet, IN SCRIPTURE we see:

--"[...thou, Bethlehem Ephratah... out of thee] shall he COME forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel..." - Micah 5:2; and

--"...behold, thy King COMETH unto thee: ...riding upon an ass..." - Zechariah 9:9 [see Lk19:41-44];

So here we see two DISTINCT "comings" (of Him) that were THIRTY-SOME YEARS apart (iow, they were not IDENTICAL "comings" but distinct--though all falling under the umbrella of what *we* LABEL His First Advent)

"ON the last day... of this world" is NOT a BIBLICAL phrase.

One will not find that idea being conveyed in the passages using the phrase "the last day" you are drawing from.

What you are missing here is:

--this passage CONNECTS BACK with Isaiah 27:9,12-13 (about a SPECIFIC THING)...

--so Isaiah 27:9 (of that context) CONNECTS with both Romans 11:27 (and context); as well as Daniel 9:24 [parts] and its context pertaining to "____ ARE DETERMINED UPON *thy* [Daniel's] people, AND UPON *thy* [Daniel's] holy city"--the PEOPLE WHO HAVE been "judicially SCATTERED"... TO THE "FOUR WINDS" (and WHO will be gathered FROM THENCE in this Matt24:29-31 passage);
Notice the "GREAT" trumpet sound which also CONNECTS these TWO passages;
Notice that THEY will be "gathered" (by ANGELS that HE "SHALL SEND" to do so) "ONE BY ONE" (not AS ONE, as *WE* [/the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY] will be!)

"The Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" is NOT who've been judicially scattered (see Eph1:20-23 WHEN [as to ITS existence]).

You are conflating DISTINCT things simply because they LOOK SIMILAR (numbers 1, 10, and 100), but consequently are missing the big picture (the correct SEQUENCE of "connecting ALL the dots," not merely the few you are "connecting" in a zig-zag [insufficient] kind of manner).

Do not "leave out" 1Th3:13... which CONNECTS with both "the BEMA of Christ" for REWARD/AWARD (which is designated solely for "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"), like when Paul said he will receive a "CROWN / stephanos" *IN THAT DAY* (and not to him only), which is not referring to the day he DIES... and CONNECTS ALSO with what we SEE being SHOWN in Rev4:4c (crowns / stephanous")!

And this is just for starters! lol (we're, like, on "dot number 4" at this point!

)

I see , in the risen Jesus we in beleif to his being our Lord unto his Lord, Father we are complete in this love and mercy given us to do the same, at least for me
Christ is risen, we are forgiven and new life is given and to be given as called to happen for each personas born new in god's Spirit and truth of Love and mercy, thank you to Father inn Psalm 100:4, 103:12

DavyP · Sep 4, 2024

homwardbound said:

Well, there will be a "thousand years" reign by Lord Jesus and His elect first once Jesus returns in our near future (Revelation 20). God's Word in Zechariah 14 even shows that after Christ's future return, the leftovers who will have come up against Jerusalem (i.e., battle of Armageddon), will be made to come up to Jerusalem and worship Christ in that future time, and keep the feast of tabernacles. This is what Apostle Paul was speaking of in the 1 Corinthians 15:24-28 Scripture that Jesus must reign until He puts all His enemies under His feet.

The idea of Amillennialism, which is a man-made doctrine that crept into the Church in the 2nd century A.D., instead tries to omit that future "thousand years" reign by Christ and His elect. They teach instead that when Jesus returns, the 'new heavens and a new earth' time begins, with all the wicked destroyed. That is not what God's Word teaches.

homwardbound · Sep 4, 2024

DavyP said:

There is much to discern as truth over the many errors in this world we are in and not a part of anymore. Thanks to Father and Son as Won for us to stand in thanksgiving and praise with all sin taken away as far as the east is from the west.
However it all turns out, man to this day does not really know truth, not completely. Therefore I see what Paul talks of, in us (me) being carnal and need meat. The meat is not for me to discern and see and tell others I got it and you don't. It is to eat solid food in the risen Son for me at least and all others as well. If they will be willing for God to lead them daily, as I am learning this truth daily in this love and mercy given me, no matter how I might think I get it or know it. Truth is God knows and I am safe win God's love and mercy of Son given me as all others are also.
I can rest in God Quill over Ny-quill, if you get that. Yes I am so old, I must have been a servant at the last supper

DavyP · Sep 4, 2024

TheDivineWatermark said:

1 Thess 3:13
13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.
KJV

That 1 Thess.3:13 verse does not establish a Pre-trib Rapture theory which is from men.

And per Zechariah 14:4-5, Jesus does bring all... His Church to the Mount of Olives there on earth when He returns on the last day of this world. Apostle Paul agrees with this also, since Paul showed in 1 Thess.4:13-16 that the saints that sleep in Jesus must be 'resurrected' first, and that Jesus will bring those with Him when He descends to earth. Then, at that same time, Paul shows the saints still alive on earth are then "caught up" to Jesus, which Zech.14 shows will be on Jesus' way to the Mount of Olives. The written Scripture is actually very simple, if followed...

Zech 14:3-5
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when He fought in the day of battle.

4 And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with Thee.
KJV

The rest of your post I'm not going to bother with, since you haven't first recognized per the written Bible Scripture that our Lord Jesus' future coming is on the last day of this world when the RESURRECTION of the dead saints happens, as per Apostle Paul in 1 Thess.4:13-16 and per Jesus in John 6:40

DavyP · Sep 4, 2024

homwardbound said:

Yes, as those in Christ do not all have the same calling in His service. Some of us He called as teachers, which He has given proof of for me, though I still recognize that I don't know everything, and that there are other brethren way ahead of me in their knowledge of God's Word. For some called in that office, He gives them a Holy Spirit 'urge' to study all of His Word and into the "strong meat".

The problem that I see today in the majority of Churches is lack of line upon line, chapter by chapter Bible teaching. Some Churches that can afford a Bible scholar are blessed in that, but per my experience that's very few Churches today. But most Churches preach the "milk" of God's Word, and some don't even fulfill that, and instead just preach that most all Bible prophecy has already been fulfilled, except for Lord Jesus Christ's future return.

Let's look at the example of a Church that does not teach Bible prophecy, and preaches the idea that most all The Bible is already fulfilled, except for Christ's future return. That idea in the seminaries is called Preterism, based on the word 'preter', which means 'what is past'. That's the kind of Christian Church organization I was raised in, but I do not follow that doctrine, which is a man-made doctrine and not Biblical. What it does for that particular Church organization is it gives them control above & beyond God's written Word, so they believe they can teach whatever they want instead.

One of the most important Bible doctrines for our times near the end of this world, are Christ's SIGNS of the end He commanded us to be watching which lead up to His future return, per His Olivet discourse, which are the same SIGNS He gave us through Apostle John in the Book of Revelation. Very few Churches today are covering those SIGNS. And many who try to fail simply because they haven't yet studied enough of God's Word of both Old and New Testament Books. Did you know that starting in Isaiah 24 there are many Revelation parallels? Some Bible scholars call certain Chapters of the Book of Isaiah as "The Apocalypse of Isaiah."

So yes, there is definitely much to learn with study of God's Word, and no one completely will know it all during this world. Yet that's no excuse to not get busy in line upon line, chapter by chapter Bible study.

I highly recommend at minimum the KJV study Bible called The Companion Bible put together by 19th century Christian Bible scholar E.W. Bullinger. It's a KJV Bible with scholar notes in a side margin. The majority of those side margin notes are not opinion, but scholarly facts, historical events, etc. The 192 Appendixes of Bible information contained in the back is alone worth having a copy.

Along with that, a good Strong's Exhaustive Concordance (pre 1990's edition preferred); The Treasury of Scripture Knowledge, and The Englishman's Concordance, as simple study tools. These other Bible study tools, along with many other Bible versions, can be found in the FREE Bible software by BibleSoft called OneTouch, a free download from their website. Then you can buy add-on Bible sources from their website. BibleSoft is used by many Christian pastors.

homwardbound · Sep 4, 2024

DavyP said:

You study deeply, yet it seems you are studying man's interpretations of the word of God. That is great
Now for me I need God Father and risen Son for me to see clearly in humility and see God take away all sin in me as has by that cross, without me taking any credit for it.
I see the entire Bible as a gigantic love letter from God to me. I respond in thanksgiving and praise, knowing, not how it will all come to be in future or past. How it is now presently, me trusting God taking one day at a time, seeing. Today is today, future not here yet, so I can rest in the done work of son for me and all others too, whether another one believes God or not, God knows, so I can remain rested
It is the Love and mercy from God that won and wins by Son for me at least. That is where I stand and yes do see man's segregation of men/women as prejudice
God, never killed Adam the first or anyone after that, as is thought God has. God has continuously warned mankind, to be careful and watch out as God said to Cane
"Sin crouches at your door"

Genesis 4:6-9

Authorized (King James) Version

6 And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? 7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him. 8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him. 9 And the Lord said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother’s keeper?

For me to do it right is to trust God to lead not me or anyone else either, as I see Father and Son as One (Won) for me and all others at that cross for us to be given new life once anyone is sincere in asking for it, without any other motive in mind but to be one will Father and Son trusting to get through it all, whether have a job or not, have a home or not, that is what I get, even as Paul said he learned to be content in all things, whether poor or rich on earth, mattered not he saw himself as rich in the risen Son, no matter what troubles happened to him. He even said okay, I am in Jail, then said the jail help came to belief also, after seeing him not complain over being held captive. Amazing to me to see this contentment, I am learning this also, in thanksgiving and praise even if I die today physically. Every day now is a good day to die to me and this world I am in
Glad you are learning your gift from God in life everlasting given you to have and trust Father in risen Son Jesus 24/7 Amen

DavyP · Sep 4, 2024

homwardbound said:

I actually don't know why you say the above, but I can only assume it's because of you are hearing coverage in God's Word at a level that you may not yet be used to, i.e., the "strong meat" of Hebrews 5.

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