For the believer, when does God forgive sins?

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HeIsHere

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May 21, 2022
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#61
Sure. Everyone comes into the world dead in trespasses and sins.
Still waiting on this from scripture, that one is born with sin and guilt.

Romans 5:12

I think Dr. Michael Heiser nails it, death is spread to all men, not the transmission of guilt.

"We become guilty before god when we sin and every human being is going to sin
there is no avoidance of sinning every human being will sin the only exception of this was
Jesus because he was also God okay not no other human being can say that so all humans if they're allowed to live will live"
Original sin a theological invention.
Dr. Michael Heiser

His full teaching on this is coherent unlike Augustine and the early supposed church fathers.
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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#62
Still waiting on this from scripture, that one is born with sin and guilt.

Romans 5:12

I think Dr. Michael Heiser nails it, death is spread to all men, not the transmission of guilt.

"We become guilty before god when we sin and every human being is going to sin
there is no avoidance of sinning every human being will sin the only exception of this was
Jesus because he was also God okay not no other human being can say that so all humans if they're allowed to live will live"
Original sin a theological invention.
Dr. Michael Heiser

His full teaching on this is coherent unlike Augustine and the early supposed church fathers.
Ephesians 2:1-3.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#65

Ephesians 2:1-3 You were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you used to walk when you conformed to the ways of this world and of the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit who is now at work in the sons of disobedience. All of us also lived among them at one time, fulfilling the cravings of our flesh and indulging its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature children of wrath. :)
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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#66
That brings up a question in regard to belief. It doesn't seem to necessarily be always static. So, if someone can be an unbeliever and then believe, once someone believes, why isn't it possible that they cannot 'unbelieve'? Or is that the distinction of belief from faith?
They can, in and of themselves, depending on what you mean by belief. If by belief you mean give assent to the accuracy of something, many give intellectual assent to the truth of the gospel. Faith, however, isn't mere intellectual assent. In faith, one believes into the Lord Jesus Christ. There is a spiritual interaction that takes place that is not present in mere intellectual assent.

It is the Spirit who baptizes an individual into Christ. He moves where He wills. He doesn't respond to the will of man, but moves as He pleases...John 3:8.
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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#67
Jesus is the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world. It was always God's intention to send Jesus to pay for our sins. This means that God purposed our forgiveness long before we came to be.
The provision for our forgiveness was provided at the cross.
And based on the cross, we can go to God and receive forgiveness afresh each day.

We have been forgiven, will be forgiven, and are currently forgiven.
You

“We have been forgiven, will be forgiven, and are currently forgiven.”

An apostle of the lord

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭1:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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#68
1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
these are believers that will not deny God and are willing to learn from God, I bet like a Job y'all. I see this thanks
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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#69
And remember Simon the Sorcerer in Acts 8? He had just been baptized and when he committed a sin, Peter said he would “PERISH”. Unless he repented and prayed for forgiveness. Better safe than sorry.
Yes the gospel is about repentance and remission of sins people say tbey believe in Jesus but then they hear him speak and then they explain why what he said isn’t right

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭5:32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he’s trying to save us all

“and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:46-47‬ ‭

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

because of that we find in the epistles warnings like this

Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we all share, I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God’s holy people.

For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord at one time saved his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe.”
‭‭Jude‬ ‭1:3-5‬ ‭NIV‬‬

they lost “ salvation “

See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “Today,” so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness.

We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end. As has just been said: “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion.”

Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies perished in the wilderness?

And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed? So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭3:12-19‬ ‭NI

Many will not hear just as israel wouldnt hear and rebelled through thier disbelief of what God had actually told them

. In the prophets false ones started teaching the people “ god will never punish you like he said you are chosen without condition you are Abraham’s seed nothing bad can ever happen just be happy eat drink and be merry Gods taking care of it all “ it’s what’s happened to the chrich why they were warning about the grace distortion that excuses our ongoing sin and requires no repentance

“For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.”

in the end it’s going to be as the word says it will be we all have the same word in front of us that will be our judgement
 

HeIsHere

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May 21, 2022
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#70
They can, in and of themselves, depending on what you mean by belief. If by belief you mean give assent to the accuracy of something, many give intellectual assent to the truth of the gospel. Faith, however, isn't mere intellectual assent. In faith, one believes into the Lord Jesus Christ. There is a spiritual interaction that takes place that is not present in mere intellectual assent.

It is the Spirit who baptizes an individual into Christ. He moves where He wills. He doesn't respond to the will of man, but moves as He pleases...John 3:8.
So a person can seek but not find God? God withholds himself from some people even upon being taught the Gospel?

Oh that is right, no one seeks God, seems like we have a contradiction then.

When soteriology is correctly understood there are no contradictions.

Hebrews 11:6
And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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#72
This is my Confession
"I need God"
We all do but there’s one place to find him

“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:20-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Many false Christs have appeared we need the true God and the gospel is the understanding he gave us to know him
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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#73
You were found faultless being judged at the cross. That was before you were born.
How is this reconciled? Is it that God knew you would repent and they would not?
I have some time now.
In John 17:2 Jesus speaks of a people that was given Him by the Father. Who are these people, and when did the Father give them to Jesus? Depending on how you answer those questions, you will evaluate a whole host of other scriptures.

Who?
A case can certainly be made for the disciples in Jesus' time on earth. But it also seems to include all those who would believe.

When?
We are told that Jesus is the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world? We are also told of the Lamb's book of life where names were written before the foundation of the world. This leads me to believe that even before creation God the Father covenanted with God the Son to redeem and reconcile a people to Himself.

While all this, of necessity, needed to occur in space and time, the mere intention of God to do this guaranteed its accomplishment.

Another consideration is what it actually means to be in Christ and when is someone actually in Christ? We are told all die in Adam. When were we placed in Adam? Eve was in Adam when Adam was created. Was all mankind? I think so. When were those who believe placed in Christ? I believe sometime before the foundation of the world.

Given all this, I believe God purposed my forgiveness in eternity past, accomplished my forgiveness on the cross, and made known to me what He had purposed and accomplished when He drew me to Himself and saved me.
 

studentoftheword

Well-known member
Nov 12, 2021
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#74
Thread Topic -----

For the believer, when does God forgive sins?

Until one accepts Christ as their Lord and Saviour through the right Faith --One remains a sinner -----only after Receiving Jesus through Saving Faith is their sins forgiven ----as Jesus shed His Blood for all people for all time but you have to receive the One who Paid your sinful Debt to have your Sins forgiven so immediately after you Receive Jesus as your Lord and Saviour your Sins are forgiven and the Holy Spirit comes to indwells you----

If you want to receive God's salvation package ---the Scripture tells you what you have to do ----do as the Scripture tells you to do and you are saved -----



Romans 10:9-10

Amplified Bible

9 because if you acknowledge and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord [recognizing His power, authority, and majesty as God], and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

10 For with the heart a person believes [in Christ as Savior] resulting in his justification [that is, being made righteous—being freed of the guilt of sin and made acceptable to God];

and with the mouth he acknowledges and confesses [his faith openly], resulting in and confirming [his] salvation.

There is a stipulation here ---it says ------IF YOU -----do this ---you will be saved ---Salvation is Conditional ---
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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#75
So a person can seek but not find God? God withholds himself from some people even upon being taught the Gospel?

Oh that is right, no one seeks God, seems like we have a contradiction then.

When soteriology is correctly understood there are no contradictions.

Hebrews 11:6
And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.
Hebrew 11:6 is the issue . If we first learn a distortion that God isn’t a rewarder of those who diligently seek him , then when we hear tbat he is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him ….it seems untrue and everything doesn’t make sense

I’m already saved he doesn’t reward us for what we do that’s not grace ect ect

this grace is getting to people

“For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.”
‭‭Jude‬ ‭1:4‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Notice how many people will openly reject Jesus teachings about everything and claim it doesn’t matter what they do they are saved ? It’s because there is a false grace gospel getting to thier hesrt first . Then when they hear the gospel they say it’s a false works gospel ….and explain they’re just saved regardless because of “grace “

it isn’t this though because the gospel which is gods true grace teaches people willing to believe to repent and obey God while we wait for Jesus to return

“For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. ( preach the gospel whoever believes shall be saved )

It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭2:11-14‬ ‭NIV‬‬

That’s not the same grace as saying “ I don’t need to do anything it’s not about repentance or obedience like Jesus taught it’s all grace ….well grace teaches sinners to repent if they believe him

“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:12, 16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

saved by grace through faith

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s sad really

“But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. ( they bring it on themselves they would be saved but they won’t accept the true doctrine of God )

And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭2:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s sad but it’s obviously occurring at a massive scale maybe that’s why the earths people will be in such mourning when he returns
 

HeIsHere

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May 21, 2022
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#77
And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:12, 16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

saved by grace through faith

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s sad really
It is indeed horribly sad, denying the power of the Gospel.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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#78
So a person can seek but not find God? God withholds himself from some people even upon being taught the Gospel?

Oh that is right, no one seeks God, seems like we have a contradiction then.

When soteriology is correctly understood there are no contradictions.

Hebrews 11:6
And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.
There is no contradiction. I'm amazed that the same people who tell me to just accept what the scripture says then turn and refuse to accept the testimony of scripture. Does the Bible teach that none seek after God?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#79
So a person can seek but not find God? God withholds himself from some people even upon being taught the Gospel?

Oh that is right, no one seeks God, seems like we have a contradiction then.

When soteriology is correctly understood there are no contradictions.

Hebrews 11:6
And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.
Everyone knows God exists. That does not mean they believe in Him.
There is no contradiction. I realize you have trouble with some concepts...


There is no contradiction. I'm amazed that the same people who tell me to just accept what the scripture says
then turn and refuse to accept the testimony of scripture. Does the Bible teach that none seek after God?
Absolutely. The natural man is God's enemy and does not seek Him.
However, man does seek truth, and Jesus Christ is the embodiment of Truth.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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#80
You

“We have been forgiven, will be forgiven, and are currently forgiven.”

An apostle of the lord

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭1:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬
Have your sins been cast into the sea of forgetfulness? Removed from God as far as the east is from the west? Remembered no more?

God says all this is true of Christians.