In your opinion do you believe world is about 6000 years old
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HI @daisyseesthesun
Do you believe the 6 days of creation were literal days based on the rotation of the earth upon its axis? Oh, and we do know that Adam was not in Eden when Seth was born to him.
Do you believe the 6 days of creation were literal days based on the rotation of the earth upon its axis? Oh, and we do know that Adam was not in Eden when Seth was born to him.
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Yes I believe it was 6- 24 hr days just as the bible say. But some pastors have said that adam could have been in the garden for a long time and that the age of Adam age could have started only after the fall of man. That would explain the age of the earth discrepancy between paleontologist and bible historian.
Hi @daisyseesthesun
Yes, I've heard that argument. But my question is why we would believe that the six days before Adam and Eve were set in the garden were normal earth spinning days, but then what? Suddenly the earth stopped spinning while they were in the garden? Doesn't make sense to me.
But as far as how long they were in the garden, we know that when Cain killed Abel they weren't in the garden. No, we don't know how long into the days of the earth that was, but we do know that after that, Adam had a son named Seth and Adam is then 130 years. So the time spent in the garden, understanding that the sun and the moon and the earth stayed their courses just as they seemed to have done once created during the creation week, couldn't have been over 130 years.
Personally, I believe that the time spent in the garden was fairly short lived. I say this based on Satan's desire to seduce Adam and Eve would likely have started shortly after they were created. But that is a guess. No, we don't know how long Adam and Eve were in the garden, but there's no reason to believe that the earth stopped spinning while they were in there and thus days would not have passed.
Further, God commanded Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply pretty much upon their creation. I just have a hard time believing that they didn't have sexual relations that would have sired children for any considerable length of time. But any children are not mentioned when they were put out of the garden. Personally, I rather doubt that they were in the garden for more than a couple of years at most. And yes, there would have been years if the sun existed and the earth's orbit was as it is now. Remember that the sun and moon and stars were created in order that they may know times and seasons.
Then God said, "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years;
So God's word seems to allow that there was an accounting of days and years from the very beginning. Why that would have suddenly been held in abeyance while they lived in the garden escapes me. I believe that the days and years passed just as they still do today and that Adam and Eve were not long for living in the garden. It would seem that it wasn't long enough for them to have any children that they were commanded to have.
God bless,
Ted
Yes, I've heard that argument. But my question is why we would believe that the six days before Adam and Eve were set in the garden were normal earth spinning days, but then what? Suddenly the earth stopped spinning while they were in the garden? Doesn't make sense to me.
But as far as how long they were in the garden, we know that when Cain killed Abel they weren't in the garden. No, we don't know how long into the days of the earth that was, but we do know that after that, Adam had a son named Seth and Adam is then 130 years. So the time spent in the garden, understanding that the sun and the moon and the earth stayed their courses just as they seemed to have done once created during the creation week, couldn't have been over 130 years.
Personally, I believe that the time spent in the garden was fairly short lived. I say this based on Satan's desire to seduce Adam and Eve would likely have started shortly after they were created. But that is a guess. No, we don't know how long Adam and Eve were in the garden, but there's no reason to believe that the earth stopped spinning while they were in there and thus days would not have passed.
Further, God commanded Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply pretty much upon their creation. I just have a hard time believing that they didn't have sexual relations that would have sired children for any considerable length of time. But any children are not mentioned when they were put out of the garden. Personally, I rather doubt that they were in the garden for more than a couple of years at most. And yes, there would have been years if the sun existed and the earth's orbit was as it is now. Remember that the sun and moon and stars were created in order that they may know times and seasons.
Then God said, "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years;
So God's word seems to allow that there was an accounting of days and years from the very beginning. Why that would have suddenly been held in abeyance while they lived in the garden escapes me. I believe that the days and years passed just as they still do today and that Adam and Eve were not long for living in the garden. It would seem that it wasn't long enough for them to have any children that they were commanded to have.
God bless,
Ted
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Irenaeus
2. Thus, then, in the day that they ate, in the same did they die, and became death's debtors, since it was one day of the creation. For it is said, There was made in the evening, and there was made in the morning, one day. Now in this same day that they ate, in that also did they die. But according to the cycle and progress of the days, after which one is termed first, another second, and another third, if anybody seeks diligently to learn upon what day out of the seven it was that Adam died, he will find it by examining the dispensation of the Lord. For by summing up in Himself the whole human race from the beginning to the end, He has also summed up its death. From this it is clear that the Lord suffered death, in obedience to His Father, upon that day on which Adam died while he disobeyed God. Now he died on the same day in which he ate. For God said, In that day on which you shall eat of it, you shall die by death. The Lord, therefore, recapitulating in Himself this day, underwent His sufferings upon the day preceding the Sabbath, that is, the sixth day of the creation, on which day man was created; thus granting him a second creation by means of His passion, which is that [creation] out of death. And there are some, again, who relegate the death of Adam to the thousandth year; for since a day of the Lord is as a thousand years, 2 Peter 3:8 he did not overstep the thousand years, but died within them, thus bearing out the sentence of his sin. Whether, therefore, with respect to disobedience, which is death; whether [we consider] that, on account of that, they were delivered over to death, and made debtors to it; whether with respect to [the fact that on] one and the same day on which they ate they also died (for it is one day of the creation); whether [we regard this point], that, with respect to this cycle of days, they died on the day in which they did also eat, that is, the day of the preparation, which is termed the pure supper, that is, the sixth day of the feast, which the Lord also exhibited when He suffered on that day; or whether [we reflect] that he (Adam) did not overstep the thousand years, but died within their limit — it follows that, in regard to all these significations, God is indeed true. For they died who tasted of the tree; and the serpent is proved a liar and a murderer, as the Lord said of him: For he is a murderer from the beginning, and the truth is not in him. John 8:44
When the Lord said it was good or very good he was saying it was exactly the way he planned creation. Another way of saying it t was a time without sin when he said it. Since it was one of the Lord's feasts it had to be the Feast of Unleaven Bread. A seven day feast.
And the sixth day was the original Passover, the day the Lord took animals and made clothing for Adam and Eve. it was the beginning of a blood sacrifice for sins!
2. Thus, then, in the day that they ate, in the same did they die, and became death's debtors, since it was one day of the creation. For it is said, There was made in the evening, and there was made in the morning, one day. Now in this same day that they ate, in that also did they die. But according to the cycle and progress of the days, after which one is termed first, another second, and another third, if anybody seeks diligently to learn upon what day out of the seven it was that Adam died, he will find it by examining the dispensation of the Lord. For by summing up in Himself the whole human race from the beginning to the end, He has also summed up its death. From this it is clear that the Lord suffered death, in obedience to His Father, upon that day on which Adam died while he disobeyed God. Now he died on the same day in which he ate. For God said, In that day on which you shall eat of it, you shall die by death. The Lord, therefore, recapitulating in Himself this day, underwent His sufferings upon the day preceding the Sabbath, that is, the sixth day of the creation, on which day man was created; thus granting him a second creation by means of His passion, which is that [creation] out of death. And there are some, again, who relegate the death of Adam to the thousandth year; for since a day of the Lord is as a thousand years, 2 Peter 3:8 he did not overstep the thousand years, but died within them, thus bearing out the sentence of his sin. Whether, therefore, with respect to disobedience, which is death; whether [we consider] that, on account of that, they were delivered over to death, and made debtors to it; whether with respect to [the fact that on] one and the same day on which they ate they also died (for it is one day of the creation); whether [we regard this point], that, with respect to this cycle of days, they died on the day in which they did also eat, that is, the day of the preparation, which is termed the pure supper, that is, the sixth day of the feast, which the Lord also exhibited when He suffered on that day; or whether [we reflect] that he (Adam) did not overstep the thousand years, but died within their limit — it follows that, in regard to all these significations, God is indeed true. For they died who tasted of the tree; and the serpent is proved a liar and a murderer, as the Lord said of him: For he is a murderer from the beginning, and the truth is not in him. John 8:44
When the Lord said it was good or very good he was saying it was exactly the way he planned creation. Another way of saying it t was a time without sin when he said it. Since it was one of the Lord's feasts it had to be the Feast of Unleaven Bread. A seven day feast.
And the sixth day was the original Passover, the day the Lord took animals and made clothing for Adam and Eve. it was the beginning of a blood sacrifice for sins!
Actually.....this condition and location predates the fall.
Eze 28:13
Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
Eze 28:15
Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Eze 28:13
Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
Eze 28:15
Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
You should have included verse 16: By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. It is also called "the holy mountain of God"
This idea was already refuted in the thread about the Gap Theory. The "mountain of God" was in Heaven, and Lucifer was cast out of there. The Garden of Eden on earth was patterned after the Eden in Heaven. Lucifer was cast out and cast down to the first heaven (the atmospheric heaven". There he is called "the prince of the power of the air". In future he and his evil angels will be cast down to earth by Michael and his holy angels (Rev 12). So there goes your theory.
There was NO pre-Adamite earth which is what Gap theorists teach, Lucifer was NOT cast down to earth, after which it was supposedly ruined. Davy claims the pre-Adamite earth was not taught but it was in fact taught. I have Clarence Larkin's book which includes this.
This idea was already refuted in the thread about the Gap Theory. The "mountain of God" was in Heaven, and Lucifer was cast out of there. The Garden of Eden on earth was patterned after the Eden in Heaven. Lucifer was cast out and cast down to the first heaven (the atmospheric heaven". There he is called "the prince of the power of the air". In future he and his evil angels will be cast down to earth by Michael and his holy angels (Rev 12). So there goes your theory.
There was NO pre-Adamite earth which is what Gap theorists teach, Lucifer was NOT cast down to earth, after which it was supposedly ruined. Davy claims the pre-Adamite earth was not taught but it was in fact taught. I have Clarence Larkin's book which includes this.
Wherever Lucifer was he had a throne and he had to ascend to reach God above the heights of the clouds.
Isaiah 14:
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Isaiah 14:
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
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Wherever Lucifer was he had a throne and he had to ascend to reach God above the heights of the clouds.
Isaiah 14:
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Isaiah 14:
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
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But that was NOT on earth. That was in Heaven, and when he was cast out of heaven, there was no more throne. So why are people ignoring these very basic facts? Lucifer was NOT cast down to the earth, as falsely taught by the Gap theorists. After the Fall he is now free to roam the earth, but before the Fall he was in the earth's atmosphere -- "the air".
Hi @Omegatime
So, you believe that Eve sinned and enticed Adam on day one, huh?
I mean, the Lord didn't kill an animal to clothe them until after the sin. Prior to their knowing sin, they didn't wear any clothes... according to the Scriptures. They ate of the fruit and it opened their eyes and they saw their nakedness.
I'm not necessarily in agreement that the sixth day was the day that God made clothing for Adam and Eve and thus, wouldn't really have that tie to the day of Passover. But yes, the killing of the animals to cover their nakedness was the first sin death.
So, you believe that Eve sinned and enticed Adam on day one, huh?
I mean, the Lord didn't kill an animal to clothe them until after the sin. Prior to their knowing sin, they didn't wear any clothes... according to the Scriptures. They ate of the fruit and it opened their eyes and they saw their nakedness.
I'm not necessarily in agreement that the sixth day was the day that God made clothing for Adam and Eve and thus, wouldn't really have that tie to the day of Passover. But yes, the killing of the animals to cover their nakedness was the first sin death.
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There were only six literal 24-hour days for creation, and that verse is a part of this truth. Then we have this in the Ten Commandments (Exod 20:11):,For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
That one verse effectively kills the Gap Theory. We can either believe God , or be deceived by the teachings and speculations of men..
That one verse effectively kills the Gap Theory. We can either believe God , or be deceived by the teachings and speculations of men..
Wherever Lucifer was he had a throne and he had to ascend to reach God above the heights of the clouds.
Isaiah 14:
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Isaiah 14:
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
But......there is not doubt that it was a VAST spectacle. Huge, with massive numbers of angelic witnesses, and God Himself in the midst.
Satan had already rebelled, so no doubt his fallen host was there as well. All of it negotiated and arranged, like a court hearing.
So IMO, heaven seems to be the best bet.
Job 2:1
Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
The gap theory (so called) is my position until I am convinced otherwise.
God only creates things "good". Verse 2 "darkness" always refers to judgement or separation from God, so I would assume that this had something to do with the fall.
Gen 1:1
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
And then of course there is this.....
Gen 1:28
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Gen 9:1
And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.
Exact same phrase......
H4390 - mālā' - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (kjv) (blueletterbible.org)
God only creates things "good". Verse 2 "darkness" always refers to judgement or separation from God, so I would assume that this had something to do with the fall.
Gen 1:1
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
And then of course there is this.....
Gen 1:28
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Gen 9:1
And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.
Exact same phrase......
H4390 - mālā' - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (kjv) (blueletterbible.org)
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Replenish means to fill again, signifying that the earth was once populated. Is this another mistake by the KJV translators? Btw, it's the same command given to Noah and his sons after the flood.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Btw, it's the same command given to Noah and his sons after the flood.27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
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The wording does not give itself to be in heaven. Lucifer specifically states that he wants to ascend to heaven and exalt his throne above the stars of God. He wants to be like God. Wherever Lucifer was, he had to go up, "ascend" into heaven. Wherever Lucifer was, he had a throne, but it wasn't good enough to match his pride.