Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.
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Brother you for sure belong to Jesus and he’s going to save those who trust in him like you do don’t get me wrong
Im just trying to understand what your saying about all this and offer a biblical point of view
“I don't know why God looked upon me with such mercy and grace; I only know that He has. And I'm not going to make less of that love than God has who has said that He who has begun a good work in me will continue it until the day of Jesus Christ. Others can choose less, but only for themselves”
Choose less by believing what the word says about things ? I’m not sure I get that part.
“You are wise to consider scripture. But 😂 who are those who desire in their inward parts to obey God and keep His commandments? Are they not those who truly possess God's Spirit?”
i don’t know honestly why some people even try to quote scripture here in the Bible discussion forum lol it’s always ignored and swerved around . Like a chicken on the road haha
The people who will believe the gospel when they hear it brother will truly possess gods spirit like this
“While Peter yet spake these words, ( Peter is preaching the gospel to gentiles ) the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.”
Acts 10:44 KJV
There is no differing degrees or secret codes the holy ghost is a free gift when we hear the gospel and believe
It’s a free gift up front from God the moment a person believes the gospel
“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,”
Ephesians 1:13 KJV
the thing is that’s our birth its not the end of it it’s the start a new life in Christ but it’s not the end to receive the spirit
“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance;
seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.”
Hebrews 6:4-6
“This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.”
Titus 3:8 KJV
“You are wise to consider scripture. But” 😂
Yeah that’s my whole belief stay away from things people are saying that the Bible teaches differently about and stick with scripture. The reason I stick to Scripture for my ideas and beliefs about God and don’t stray is that those are the words of the spirit all along men spoke by Gods one spirit
“knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.”
2 Peter 1:20-21 KJV
and I want to know what the savior said about salvation so I know and believe the truth that saves
“and that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.”
2 Timothy 3:15-17 KJV
We talk about the holy spirit as if he didn’t preach the gospel or give tbe words of God to the prophets he authored the Bible for man to have and know.
The right heart towards god is meant to be what the cross and our response is about of our innocent lord dying in our place suffering so greatly for our sins os to change a condemned sinners heart
“This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters.
Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth. This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence:”
1 John 3:16, 18-19 NIV
these scriptures aren’t someone’s interpretation like that one…. it’s John stating by the Holy Ghost this is how we know …this is what we should do …dont love with words alone but with your deeds in truth , this is how we know ect
…it’s just information from God like a text book for any subject we need to believe or “ buy into the information “ we’re hearing or our minds arent going to shape around the information we’re learning and begin to understand if we reject the right information well
Never come to the right conclusion it seems
it’s all part of Gods promise and process to redeem us through Christ putting Jesus spirit in us
“Because you are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba, Father.””
Galatians 4:6 NIV
As we hear we can either reject what we hear or accept it and let that correct what we thought that wasn’t correct according to scripture then we’ll be in line with Gods “opinions and theories “ about salvstion and can just believe him and follow the spirit of Jesus
“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
…For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die:
but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”
Romans 8:1, 13 KJV
we can let it change our mind about God as we’re able to learn from Jesus because we’ve received his spirit and he’s in us from the start working in believers to change thier stubborn minds and hearts
the gospel will change our mind about God , ourselves , sin , righteousness , mercy and life and death but only if we’ll accept it and believe that Jesus knows about those things better then we could
“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
Romans 10:17 KJV
maybe we have a fundamental difference dear brother I really do believe we should build our faith from scripture and. Ot oart from tbier things but rather begin to apply them in our own lives and see if his promises of obedience are true
Im just trying to understand what your saying about all this and offer a biblical point of view
“I don't know why God looked upon me with such mercy and grace; I only know that He has. And I'm not going to make less of that love than God has who has said that He who has begun a good work in me will continue it until the day of Jesus Christ. Others can choose less, but only for themselves”
Choose less by believing what the word says about things ? I’m not sure I get that part.
“You are wise to consider scripture. But 😂 who are those who desire in their inward parts to obey God and keep His commandments? Are they not those who truly possess God's Spirit?”
i don’t know honestly why some people even try to quote scripture here in the Bible discussion forum lol it’s always ignored and swerved around . Like a chicken on the road haha
The people who will believe the gospel when they hear it brother will truly possess gods spirit like this
“While Peter yet spake these words, ( Peter is preaching the gospel to gentiles ) the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.”
Acts 10:44 KJV
There is no differing degrees or secret codes the holy ghost is a free gift when we hear the gospel and believe
It’s a free gift up front from God the moment a person believes the gospel
“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,”
Ephesians 1:13 KJV
the thing is that’s our birth its not the end of it it’s the start a new life in Christ but it’s not the end to receive the spirit
“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance;
seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.”
Hebrews 6:4-6
“This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.”
Titus 3:8 KJV
“You are wise to consider scripture. But” 😂
Yeah that’s my whole belief stay away from things people are saying that the Bible teaches differently about and stick with scripture. The reason I stick to Scripture for my ideas and beliefs about God and don’t stray is that those are the words of the spirit all along men spoke by Gods one spirit
“knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.”
2 Peter 1:20-21 KJV
and I want to know what the savior said about salvation so I know and believe the truth that saves
“and that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.”
2 Timothy 3:15-17 KJV
We talk about the holy spirit as if he didn’t preach the gospel or give tbe words of God to the prophets he authored the Bible for man to have and know.
The right heart towards god is meant to be what the cross and our response is about of our innocent lord dying in our place suffering so greatly for our sins os to change a condemned sinners heart
“This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters.
Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth. This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence:”
1 John 3:16, 18-19 NIV
these scriptures aren’t someone’s interpretation like that one…. it’s John stating by the Holy Ghost this is how we know …this is what we should do …dont love with words alone but with your deeds in truth , this is how we know ect
…it’s just information from God like a text book for any subject we need to believe or “ buy into the information “ we’re hearing or our minds arent going to shape around the information we’re learning and begin to understand if we reject the right information well
Never come to the right conclusion it seems
it’s all part of Gods promise and process to redeem us through Christ putting Jesus spirit in us
“Because you are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba, Father.””
Galatians 4:6 NIV
As we hear we can either reject what we hear or accept it and let that correct what we thought that wasn’t correct according to scripture then we’ll be in line with Gods “opinions and theories “ about salvstion and can just believe him and follow the spirit of Jesus
“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
…For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die:
but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”
Romans 8:1, 13 KJV
we can let it change our mind about God as we’re able to learn from Jesus because we’ve received his spirit and he’s in us from the start working in believers to change thier stubborn minds and hearts
the gospel will change our mind about God , ourselves , sin , righteousness , mercy and life and death but only if we’ll accept it and believe that Jesus knows about those things better then we could
“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
Romans 10:17 KJV
maybe we have a fundamental difference dear brother I really do believe we should build our faith from scripture and. Ot oart from tbier things but rather begin to apply them in our own lives and see if his promises of obedience are true
“If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.”
1 John 1:8-10 NIV
must be that darned English again lol
1 John 1:8-10 NIV
must be that darned English again lol
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Why would Satan steal, kill,& destroy if there was nothing to steal & kill of the christian in the first place?
Jesus is LORD & we must obey Him as LORD if we're going anywhere with Him.
Apparently we forget that even Jesus while on this earth was tempted & tried to turn away from God & serve Satan.
Are we saying it could have happened to Jesus but never to us?
Jesus is LORD & we must obey Him as LORD if we're going anywhere with Him.
Apparently we forget that even Jesus while on this earth was tempted & tried to turn away from God & serve Satan.
Are we saying it could have happened to Jesus but never to us?
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Sure. So if He who has begun a good work in you will continue it until the day of Jesus Christ, how can one be separated from being in Christ?
Some here suggest that one can be unborn from above,separated from the love of God in Christ, and new creations can be de-created. Where is this found in scripture? How is eternal life eternal if it can be lost?
Some here suggest that one can be unborn from above,separated from the love of God in Christ, and new creations can be de-created. Where is this found in scripture? How is eternal life eternal if it can be lost?
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Jesus was always more powerful than Satan, right?
So why was Satan fighting to win? Because he knew he could talk Jesus out of it.
Satan would have never showed up to tempt Jesus knowing full well he didn't stand a chance. It was Jesus' choice that sealed the victory.
So it is still our choice if we want to stay or not.
Have you ever noticed what those who choose the Devil are given in this world? Take a long look at Howie Mandel.
He was given his own show Deal or no deal. How ironic.
We hear all the time of christians making deals with the Devil, & think nothing of it. We accept it as true & ask no questions.
So why was Satan fighting to win? Because he knew he could talk Jesus out of it.
Satan would have never showed up to tempt Jesus knowing full well he didn't stand a chance. It was Jesus' choice that sealed the victory.
So it is still our choice if we want to stay or not.
Have you ever noticed what those who choose the Devil are given in this world? Take a long look at Howie Mandel.
He was given his own show Deal or no deal. How ironic.
We hear all the time of christians making deals with the Devil, & think nothing of it. We accept it as true & ask no questions.
In John 10:27-28, we read - My sheep hear My voice, (not some of them hear His voice and some of them don't hear His voice) and I know them, (not some of them He knows and some of them He doesn't know) and they follow Me. (not some of them follow Him and some of them don't follow Him) And I give them eternal life, (not some of them He gives eternal life and some of them He doesn't give eternal life) and they shall never perish; (not some of them will never perish and some of them will perish) neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. (not some of them will never be snatched out of His hand and some of them will be snatched out of His hand)
In CONTRAST with those do not believe and are not His sheep. (John 10:25-26)
I will never understand these folks who seem to be suffering from a severe case of anti-OSAS derangement syndrome.
In CONTRAST with those do not believe and are not His sheep. (John 10:25-26)
I will never understand these folks who seem to be suffering from a severe case of anti-OSAS derangement syndrome.
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When Jesus was led by the spirit to be tempted by the devil, it was to show us that Jesus could not fall into temptation. Adam failed and as our representative I think we would agree we would all fail in his position. Jesus being tempted is directed by God to highlight His perfection in contrast to the first Adam failings.
Apparently 40 days is about he max a human can go without food before he dies, so Jesus was at His weakest humanly speaking, then the devil tempted Him, interesting that Jesus was led by God to be tempted by Satan, Satan therefore seems to be subject to God and whatever God allows.
If God is sovereign and has said no one can be tested beyond what he can bear, then be at peace our salvation is assured and secured by God Himself not because we would not fail, but because our Lord Jesus will not fail.
Apparently 40 days is about he max a human can go without food before he dies, so Jesus was at His weakest humanly speaking, then the devil tempted Him, interesting that Jesus was led by God to be tempted by Satan, Satan therefore seems to be subject to God and whatever God allows.
If God is sovereign and has said no one can be tested beyond what he can bear, then be at peace our salvation is assured and secured by God Himself not because we would not fail, but because our Lord Jesus will not fail.
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Is there a difference? Doesn't the corruptions of the world in a life nullify eternal salvation when one allow those corruptions to creep into their lives?
Some people here seem to think so.
So, have you ever lost your eternal salvation from Hell, or do you believe there is no Hell?
I'm asking because the plethora of beliefs across the span of so many people varies considerably.
MM
Some people here seem to think so.
So, have you ever lost your eternal salvation from Hell, or do you believe there is no Hell?
I'm asking because the plethora of beliefs across the span of so many people varies considerably.
MM
If you're honest then you have to see that you have nothing that says "partaking of the Holy Spirit does mean in dwelling of the Holy Spirit.”
That same arrow can be picked up and shot right back at you. You don't get to declare what this means or not. The FACT is this doesn't clearly state that someone was for sure saved and then had it snatched away, yet there are a few scripture that CLEARLY state it can not be taken away.
Look man I understand why you think this says we can lose salvation, I used to think the same thing, but no matter how bad you want it to mean that, it doesn't MAKE it mean that. When you take a step back and really think about it you have to see you are arguing for Gods weakness and inability to keep His sheep. You are saying that when we are saved that God is putting the burden of salvation on our shoulders and it's our behavior that determines if we are saved or not. Works based salvation 1,000%. Why do you want God to have weak power or a grace and salvation we can just throw away? That's not my view of what His power did in my life AT ALL. I always have to wonder how anyone who has been transformed by the power of God in truth, can have such a low view of that power that they say we can walk away from it or have it snatched back away when His word clearly tells us it cannot be. Do we have a weak God that saves people for no reason?
That same arrow can be picked up and shot right back at you. You don't get to declare what this means or not. The FACT is this doesn't clearly state that someone was for sure saved and then had it snatched away, yet there are a few scripture that CLEARLY state it can not be taken away.
Look man I understand why you think this says we can lose salvation, I used to think the same thing, but no matter how bad you want it to mean that, it doesn't MAKE it mean that. When you take a step back and really think about it you have to see you are arguing for Gods weakness and inability to keep His sheep. You are saying that when we are saved that God is putting the burden of salvation on our shoulders and it's our behavior that determines if we are saved or not. Works based salvation 1,000%. Why do you want God to have weak power or a grace and salvation we can just throw away? That's not my view of what His power did in my life AT ALL. I always have to wonder how anyone who has been transformed by the power of God in truth, can have such a low view of that power that they say we can walk away from it or have it snatched back away when His word clearly tells us it cannot be. Do we have a weak God that saves people for no reason?
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Be careful with this kind of belief. There are some who will throw scriptures at you blown up in large letters, and claim they are applying the Bible with consistent and proper hermeneutics, and thus, in their minds, winning the argument because they use larger lettering of verses ripped from their context, and not rightly divided. The apostles taught the Kingdom Gospel, which was set aside for the sake of the Gospel of Grace, but some continuously try to harmonize it all, and thus exude disharmonies in their belief systems.
MM
MM
Always remember to look at the CONTEXT!
1Paul and Timothy, bond-servants of Christ Jesus,
To all the [a]saints in Christ Jesus who are in Philippi, including the overseers and deacons: 2Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
3I thank my God in all my remembrance of you, 4always offering prayer with joy in my every prayer for you all, 5in view of your [c]participation in the gospel from the first day until now. 6For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work [d]among you will complete it [e]by the day of Christ Jesus. 7[f]For it is only right for me to feel this way about you all, because I have you in my heart, since both in my [g]imprisonment and in the defense and confirmation of the gospel, you all are [h]partakers of grace with me. 8For God is my witness, how I long for you all with the affection of Christ Jesus. 9And this I pray, that your love may overflow still more and more in real knowledge and all discernment, 10so that you may [j]discover the things that are excellent, that you may be sincere and blameless for the day of Christ; 11having been filled with the fruit of righteousness which comes through Jesus Christ, for the glory and praise of God.
This scripture wasn't to any old person. It was for those who were properly following the Lord.
What makes scripture look to be against itself is people don't look at the context.
1Paul and Timothy, bond-servants of Christ Jesus,
To all the [a]saints in Christ Jesus who are in Philippi, including the overseers and deacons: 2Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
3I thank my God in all my remembrance of you, 4always offering prayer with joy in my every prayer for you all, 5in view of your [c]participation in the gospel from the first day until now. 6For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work [d]among you will complete it [e]by the day of Christ Jesus. 7[f]For it is only right for me to feel this way about you all, because I have you in my heart, since both in my [g]imprisonment and in the defense and confirmation of the gospel, you all are [h]partakers of grace with me. 8For God is my witness, how I long for you all with the affection of Christ Jesus. 9And this I pray, that your love may overflow still more and more in real knowledge and all discernment, 10so that you may [j]discover the things that are excellent, that you may be sincere and blameless for the day of Christ; 11having been filled with the fruit of righteousness which comes through Jesus Christ, for the glory and praise of God.
This scripture wasn't to any old person. It was for those who were properly following the Lord.
What makes scripture look to be against itself is people don't look at the context.
In John 10:27-28, we read - My sheep hear My voice, (not some of them hear His voice and some of them don't hear His voice) and I know them, (not some of them He knows and some of them He doesn't know) and they follow Me. (not some of them follow Him and some of them don't follow Him) And I give them eternal life, (not some of them He gives eternal life and some of them He doesn't give eternal life) and they shall never perish; (not some of them will never perish and some of them will perish) neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. (not some of them will never be snatched out of His hand and some of them will be snatched out of His hand)
In CONTRAST with those do not believe and are not His sheep. (John 10:25-26)
I will never understand these folks who seem to be suffering from a severe case of anti-OSAS derangement syndrome.
In CONTRAST with those do not believe and are not His sheep. (John 10:25-26)
I will never understand these folks who seem to be suffering from a severe case of anti-OSAS derangement syndrome.
Isn't it wonderful that Jesus spoke of a mystery here that the apostles didn't even understand, but today we can look back and see that this spoke of a mystery that not even Satan understood until it was too late. Heck, the apostles didn't even understand Jesus when He told them He was about the killed. They were clueless, and even more clueless that the day was coming whereby the Gentiles would be brought into His body and joined together with Jews, and there being no distinctions amongst them, each one eternally saved without having to worry about the goofy phenomenon of losing one's eternal salvation, saved again, and losing their salvation, time after time after time, becoming unborn again, and being born again and again and again. This is the kind of crud that arises when there is a failure to rightly divide the word of truth...which is truth from truth, not truth from falsehoods.
It's inevitable that someone will claim the sheep of another fold were the Samaritans...
MM