Loss of salvation???

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Genez said:
What specific terms? What terms do you speak of?

Its not making sense the way you are saying it.
That is why I can not answer according to what you are assuming.

Are you saying that God judged Jewish Christians because they failed to stay under the Law that was to shortly end???
The Law ended on the Cross! So, if that is what you are asking about? Its a moot question.
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You mentioned the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD in conjunction with the unbelief of Jews. My question was why don't you see the destruction of Jerusalem as the fulfillment of the sanctions God promised if Israel did not live up to the terms of the old covenant.

While technically the new covenant was ratified when God accepted Jesus' sacrifice, there was an intercovenantal period where the church was established and revelation was given for its governance, purpose, and direction. And, the old covenant wasn't terminated until the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple was complete.
 
Cameron143 said:
You mentioned the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD in conjunction with the unbelief of Jews. My question was why don't you see the destruction of Jerusalem as the fulfillment of the sanctions God promised if Israel did not live up to the terms of the old covenant.
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The terms of the Old Covenant? In what way were they failing?
 
Pilgrimshope said:
Yeah it was written to Hebrews everything in it is still true doctrine for everyone is my point it doesn’t change the facts of what’s stated like

“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:26-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this speaks of how Moses law demanded a death sentence for sin without mercy , it’s saying then , how much greater of a punishment is one who defiles and tramples down Jesus blood and sacrifice by serving sin willingly once tbey have actually been set free from its dominion
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It was not about some principle of truth.
It was being specific!

“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth.

What was the knowledge of the truth they failed to honor?
 
Genez said:
The terms of the Old Covenant? In what way were they failing?
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Are you kidding? The whole history of the children of Israel is rebellion and idolatry. And in Jesus' day, they filled up the measure of their fathers who had killed prophets by killing Him.
 
Cameron143 said:
Are you kidding? The whole history of the children of Israel is rebellion and idolatry. And in Jesus' day, they filled up the measure of their fathers who had killed prophets by killing Him.
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That has nothing to do with why the Book of Hebrews was written. It was warning to Jewish Christians in Jerusalem who refused to live in the truth that Jesus and the Cross brought before them.

And, rebellion was not a monopoly of just the Jews.. That is why we have the OT for all, as a type that Gentiles can learn the principles involving habitual sin and the consequences to follow.
 
Genez said:
That has nothing to do with why the Book of Hebrews was written. It was warning to Jewish Christians in Jerusalem who refused to live in the truth that Jesus and the Cross brought before them.

And, rebellion was not a monopoly of just the Jews.. That is why we have the OT for all, as a type that Gentiles can learn the principles involving habitual sin and the consequences to follow.
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Weren't you the one who brought 70AD into the conversation?

I agree that the book of Hebrews is not dealing with the destruction of Jerusalem, but that was my point all along...thus, my original question.
 
Cameron143 said:
Are you kidding? The whole history of the children of Israel is rebellion and idolatry. .
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Today the same kind of thing could apply to quite a few found in Christianity.

​
For, as I have often told you before and now tell you again even with tears, ​
many live as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their destiny is destruction, ​
their god is their stomach [emotions], and their glory is in their shame. ​
Their mind is set on earthly things." Philippians 3:18-19​

That is why the examples found in the OT are applicable to serve as types to show gentiles what they need to be aware of.
 
Cameron143 said:
Weren't you the one who brought 70AD into the conversation?

I agree that the book of Hebrews is not dealing with the destruction of Jerusalem, but that was my point all along...thus, my original question.
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The book of Hebrews was written containing admonitions in warning against things that were happening and leading to the destruction in 70AD..
 
Genez said:
Today the same kind of thing could apply to quite a few found in Christianity.

​
For, as I have often told you before and now tell you again even with tears, ​
many live as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their destiny is destruction, ​
their god is their stomach [emotions], and their glory is in their shame. ​
Their mind is set on earthly things." Philippians 3:18-19​

That is why the examples found in the OT are applicable to serve as types to show gentiles what they need to be aware of.
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I agree that the OT is of use to us today. The portion of my post you quoted was merely to explain how the children of Israel broke the old covenant.
 
Genez said:
The book of Hebrews was written containing admonitions in warning against things that were leading to the destruction.
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No it wasn't. It was written to Jewish Christians who were undergoing severe persecution and considering returning to the Jewish faith.
Paul goes into great detail concerning the superiority of Christ and the ill consequences for them personally in doing so.
 
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Cameron143 said:
I agree that the OT is of use to us today. The portion of my post you quoted was merely to explain how the children of Israel broke the old covenant.
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But the problem found in Hebrews concerning believers was not being caused by Jews breaking the Old Covenant.
And, that was what you said was sounding to me.
 
Cameron143 said:
No it wasn't. It was written to Jewish Christians who were undergoing severe persecution and considering returning to the Jewish faith.
Paul goes into great detail concerning the superiority of Christ and the ill consequences for them personally in doing so.
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What ever... Some day I hope to know as much as you do.
 
Genez said:
But the problem found in Hebrews concerning believers was not being caused by Jews breaking the Old Covenant.
And, that was what you said was sounding to me.
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Again agree. My apologies for not being more clear.
 
Genez said:
Today the same kind of thing could apply to quite a few found in Christianity.

​
For, as I have often told you before and now tell you again even with tears, ​
many live as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their destiny is destruction, ​
their god is their stomach [emotions], and their glory is in their shame. ​
Their mind is set on earthly things." Philippians 3:18-19​

That is why the examples found in the OT are applicable to serve as types to show gentiles what they need to be aware of.
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Hello Genez.

I was reading your post and I noticed the statement below.

"their god is their stomach [emotions]"

A much better translation of "stomach" would be the desires of the flesh.

Rather than the 'stomach' is the seat of emotions.
 
Inquisitor said:
Hello Genez.

I was reading your post and I noticed the statement below.

"their god is their stomach [emotions]"

A much better translation of "stomach" would be the desires of the flesh.

Rather than the 'stomach' is the seat of emotions.
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Body parts were used by the ancients for words we have invented for our times.
There was no dedicated word "emotions" until later on.

Here is an example of how body parts were used to express what we today would simply say 'emotions.'

What does bowels mean in Philippians 2:1?
compassion/affection/kindness
The Greek word translated as compassion/affection/kindness is quite literally the word for 'bowels' in Greek. The KJV is literally correct.

So? It's not stomach, as far as the meaning intended.

Here is another....

For God is my record, how greatly I long after you all in the bowels of Jesus Christ.


Philippians 1:8
Authorized (King James) Version
 
You can lose your salvation for sure. Just read the Hebrew letter and the warnings contained therein to the recently converted Hebrews. It also says that it is impossible to renew such a backsliding person to repentance again.

Hebrews 6:4-6

4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
 
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DJT_47 said:
You can lose your salvation for sure. Just read the Hebrew letter and the warnings contained therein to the recently converted Hebrews. It also says that it is impossible to renew such a backsliding person to repentance again.

Hebrews 6:4-6

4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
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See post #116 from the link below:

Dogs Returning To Their Vomit - Christian Chat Rooms & Forums
 
gratefuloneson said:
Can a once truly saved believer backslide too much and lose the gift of salvation? If so do they need to repent and ask for forgiveness through Christ again? Thoughts are welcome and scripture too!
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Once anyone e has received God's done forgiveness by Son on that cross, one changes as new from God between God and them in thanksgiving and praise all sin taken away as far as the east is from the west
gratefuloneson said:
Can a once truly saved believer backslide too much and lose the gift of salvation? If so do they need to repent and ask for forgiveness through Christ again? Thoughts are welcome and scripture too!
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Ask God, believe God in risen Son for you.
God gives to all that are sincere.
Seals us, as in Ephesians 1:13. accepts us as in Eph 1:6, has forgiven us as in Eph 1:7
The willing death of Jesus the Son reconciled us all 2 Cor. 5:17-20. No more seen today in the flesh (2 Cor 5:16)
If anyone gives up in belief to God did take away all sin on that cross for us all. As is now done, then and there. Then one does not see what God gives freely to them, being, getting too caught up in being a do-gooder and religious over others acting as if better than others as said about in Luke 18:9-14. Also those that condemn others and say they are forgiven, do not understand either when not forgiving others also.
See Matthew 18:24-35 about being getting forgiven and what one might do if get this truth too. and then not condemn anyone else again. That be me now, and it has been a long journey here on earth to learn this and continue in it as God has done for me in standing to me as has forgiven me, I know, in thanksgiving and praise. I am not asking God for anymore forgiveness, that is done for us all by Son ( 1 John 2), trusting God this prophesy is done in Psalm 103:12 by Son and asked for the new heart in Ezekiel 36:26. Now entering his courts with thanksgiving and praise Psalm 100:4
 
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