What Changed?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,843
1,854
113
But Justice has already been served on behalf of all God's elect at the Cross of Christ, so God is free to have mercy and compassion on whom He wills (Rom 9:15).
Actually he died for the world.

And your right, he is free to have mercy and compassion on whoever he wills

what is his will?

Whoever sees and believes will never perish, but have eternal life.. These are jesus own words. Not mine.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,435
449
83
They can't belong to Christ without the indwelling of the Spirit...Romans 8. Simply because God didn't reveal this until the NT doesn't negate its truth.
I will grant that the indwelling was different compared to the Spirit being poured out since Pentecost, but we see evidence of the Spirit in the world as early as Genesis 1:2. And you might be surprised how often He is mentioned in the OT.
I get that. amazing to me God was merciful from day one in the fall of Adam and Eve. Clothed them both, put them out of the garden. As I see that it was to reveal thier need for God to lead and live in us the people, eventually through the Tree of life for us in the risen Christ, that got blocked from anyone eating from it, before the time called as in Genesis 3:15-16, which today is fulfilled in the risen Son for me at least
Jesus
Eternal
Savior
Unto
Salvation

Christ
Has
Risen
Insures
Salvation
Today

And forever ever daily in us those that will not doubt God, all in all, no matter what adversities one might be in presently, or has been in and might be in
Live daily, die to the first born me daily, to be alive in God's Spirit and Truth and not anyone else's ever again here on earth as have done, thank you to God, Psalm 100:4, 103:12, Ezekiel 36:26
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,843
1,854
113
He who believes is not condemned

he who does not believe is condemned already

thing that separates a child of God from a child of Satan is his faith

they either trust God to keep his word.

or they do not trust God and will live in sin. or try to save themselves
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
18,892
6,486
113
62
Well then, who makes that decision, God or man? I need to fathom this, don't we all?
God is still the only one good is God not? Man is mostly out for the self, from what I have seen that is truth over it all, that includes me. Who puts who in charge does God or man?
When God has no respect of persons, I do not see God putting anyone else in charge but Son, whom God raised from the dead, left for us the people to believe and stand in belief to this truth for us to be freed from under Law Laws of man. Do you see this too?
Gal. 3:19-26
What have you that you have not received?
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
18,892
6,486
113
62
Well thanks for your opinion. But I understand quite well.

Abraham was declared righteous when he had faith when he was imputed Gods righteousness, in which he was made righteous.


I was saved through my baptism of the Holy SPirit. I was justified by faith, and when the HS baptized me into christ, his blood cleansed me of all sin

Now reading your comments here. I do believe you may be comfused some

Your still dead in your sin until you are justified.

You can try to blow this fact off all you want. it will never make you right.
Thanks for sharing. When Abraham was declared righteous, had he already been made righteous?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,435
449
83
Well thanks for your opinion. But I understand quite well.

Abraham was declared righteous when he had faith when he was imputed Gods righteousness, in which he was made righteous.


I was saved through my baptism of the Holy SPirit. I was justified by faith, and when the HS baptized me into christ, his blood cleansed me of all sin

Now reading your comments here. I do believe you may be comfused some

Your still dead in your sin until you are justified.

You can try to blow this fact off all you want. it will never make you right.
I believe God raised Son from the dead for me and all others also. After God by Son, took away all sin, but Unbelief to God for us all. through Son's done work, now presently today to choose to believe God and be freed from all the other garbage out in this world today, that brings in confusion through causing whatever doubt it can by using passages out of context, having thought(s), maybe he did take away all sin or not, I better be good enough, so I work at the done work that is done and am not in by my thought, in guilt. Then when I do it, at least think I am doing it, pride enters me again. Paul calls that dung, Phil 3.
Hey, y'all, God did it, Thank You God, I accept this in Thanksgiving and praise. Since then God has sealed me and all others as well to know the truth completely that sets them free to just love all as called to do. Oh the same as Son did going to that cross without a fight over it at all
Nevertheless not my will Father, yours be done, Thank you a million times over and over and over again and again
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,435
449
83
What have you that you have not received?
I have received everything needed for Life everlasting by God loving me in spite of my ignorance and am learning new from them
2 Cor 12:7-10
It is all God and none of me. I do believe Jesus said this very same thing, Matt 19, why call me good, only my Father is good to that rich person that wanted to know how to enter Heaven
That ended with With man it is impossible, with God his Father all things are possible
Amazing grace the risen Son given us to love all, and not just those we choose to love anymore as is what first birth is, that is dead to God
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,843
1,854
113
Thanks for sharing. When Abraham was declared righteous, had he already been made righteous?
Gen 15: 6 And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.

Rom 4:
3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was [b]accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted [c]as grace but as debt.
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”

16 Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be [d]sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,435
449
83
Thanks for sharing. When Abraham was declared righteous, had he already been made righteous?
declared righteous by God, because Abraham believed God. On the way to sacrifice Son, Abraham thought in belief, God could raise Son form the dead. What an allegory of Son raised, before it happened in Jesus for us to be raised now in belief, our reaction too this truth reveals the fruit. Our arguing does not reveal real fruit to me, and I have done that too, argue, now I see not to in willing beleif I do not, unless get put under Law again and have been.
I saw a forest of trees, all lusciously looking delicious. I went there and ate. It did not taste great, yet a lot of others were eating from them too. So I developed a taste, eventually I saw this. I was eating waxed fruit and was not satisfied needing the real fruit to eat. Still had a hole I'm my heart.
I then saw a tree all by itself, with one piece of fruit hanging from it. I went over to it to see it and eat it. But stopped not wanting to be selfish in, if another person needed it. Yet I heard eat it, so I did, and wow as I watched this tree immediately grow another fruit on it waiting for the next person to eat from it too, and be born again too.
that was the Tree of Life I got to eat from and it touched my lips and I was cleansed.
Isaiah 6:1-7
Next for the next person ready, for the next person, time to eat as God permits, knowing who is sincere and who is not, then God will permit or not Hebrews 6:3, knowing best, when it be time for the next person to eat and see this too
Thanking Father and Son as Won (One) for us to eat and be freed also. So go on and try please as in Galatians 6:7-9
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
18,892
6,486
113
62
Gen 15: 6 And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.

Rom 4:
3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was [b]accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted [c]as grace but as debt.
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”

16 Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be [d]sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all
2 views:
From Abraham's perspective...exercised faith and accounted righteous. God makes known to Him what is true of him...God will provide Himself a Lamb.
From God's perspective...Jesus is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Righteousness will be declared (revealed) through faith. Faith will come by My words.

Why does God tell us that Jesus was slain before the foundation of the world? What does it mean?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,435
449
83
2 views:
From Abraham's perspective...exercised faith and accounted righteous. God makes known to Him what is true of him...God will provide Himself a Lamb.
From God's perspective...Jesus is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Righteousness will be declared (revealed) through faith. Faith will come by My words.

Why does God tell us that Jesus was slain before the foundation of the world? What does it mean?
God saw on the seventh day all is good and rested, time for us to do the same, (Hebrews 4) you think? God did it, I believe it and accept it as done in thanksgiving and praise to God not self or anyone else but Son the two as Won (One), The below is what God saw from Genesis, that no one else understood until after getting born again new from God through risen Son, thanks. yet that willing one time death had to take away sin first, before any new life could ever be given to anyone. That be why Jesus went to Spirit prison first for those three days, to tell those there that were waiting for him to come and save them. Then they rose with him, amazing grace

Genesis 3:15 NIV - And I will put enmity between you and

Bible Gateway
https://www.biblegateway.com › passage › search=Gene...



15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.”.
King James Version (KJV) · ‎Genesis 3:15 · ‎New King James Version (NKJV) · ‎ESV

1 Peter 3:19
by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

Oh, and wait a sec, there had to be a second witness to Jesus as the Messiah, wondering who that might have been? Judas maybe, I bet yet no biblical proof, yet I hear how merciful God is
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
18,892
6,486
113
62
declared righteous by God, because Abraham believed God. On the way to sacrifice Son, Abraham thought in belief, God could raise Son form the dead. What an allegory of Son raised, before it happened in Jesus for us to be raised now in belief, our reaction too this truth reveals the fruit. Our arguing does not reveal real fruit to me, and I have done that too, argue, now I see not to in willing beleif I do not, unless get put under Law again and have been.
I saw a forest of trees, all lusciously looking delicious. I went there and ate. It did not taste great, yet a lot of others were eating from them too. So I developed a taste, eventually I saw this. I was eating waxed fruit and was not satisfied needing the real fruit to eat. Still had a hole I'm my heart.
I then saw a tree all by itself, with one piece of fruit hanging from it. I went over to it to see it and eat it. But stopped not wanting to be selfish in, if another person needed it. Yet I heard eat it, so I did, and wow as I watched this tree immediately grow another fruit on it waiting for the next person to eat from it too, and be born again too.
that was the Tree of Life I got to eat from and it touched my lips and I was cleansed.
Isaiah 6:1-7
Next for the next person ready, for the next person, time to eat as God permits, knowing who is sincere and who is not, then God will permit or not Hebrews 6:3, knowing best, when it be time for the next person to eat and see this too
Thanking Father and Son as Won (One) for us to eat and be freed also. So go on and try please as in Galatians 6:7-9
I don't really know what you are saying here. My question is: when someone is declared a thing, they already have to be that thing for the declaration to be true?
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
18,892
6,486
113
62
God saw on the seventh day all is good and rested, time for us to do the same, (Hebrews 4) you think? God did it, I believe it and accept it as done in thanksgiving and praise to God not self or anyone else but Son the two as Won (One), The below is what God saw from Genesis, that no one else understood until after getting born again new from God through risen Son, thanks. yet that willing one time death had to take away sin first, before any new life could ever be given to anyone. That be why Jesus went to Spirit prison first for those three days, to tell those there that were waiting for him to come and save them. Then they rose with him, amazing grace

Genesis 3:15 NIV - And I will put enmity between you and

Bible Gateway
https://www.biblegateway.com › passage › search=Gene...



15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.”.
King James Version (KJV) · ‎Genesis 3:15 · ‎New King James Version (NKJV) · ‎ESV

1 Peter 3:19
by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

Oh, and wait a sec, there had to be a second witness to Jesus as the Messiah, wondering who that might have been? Judas maybe, I bet yet no biblical proof, yet I hear how merciful God is
I'm not following this either. Can you state your point more succinctly?
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
2,276
245
63
Actually he died for the world.

And your right, he is free to have mercy and compassion on whoever he wills

what is his will?

Whoever sees and believes will never perish, but have eternal life.. These are jesus own words. Not mine.
So what precedes what: His mercy and compassion precedes faith and redemption or does faith precede mercy and faith? If the latter, then how can it be that God has mercy and compassion based on his choice, since the sinner [sovereignly] chose God first, then this would make God indebted to the sinner.

Hint: When God "came down" to rescue and redeem the Israelites from Egypt, was it because the Israelites were a people of faith, and so God subsequently decided to make good on his promises to Abraham, or did he sovereignly choose to rescue them in spite of their overall faithless condition, and then subsequently, after the parting of the Red Sea, [many] Israelites came to believe in God and in his Servant Moses?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,435
449
83
I don't really know what you are saying here. My question is: when someone is declared a thing, they already have to be that thing for the declaration to be true?
Oh boy, God just loves you and me and everyone else too
Freedom is found in knowing that God loves and accepts you. When you know beyond all doubt that you are your Daddy’s delight, you will be free from the need to please others. The pressure to perform will lift and the unholy expectations of men will seem ridiculous. My Father is pleased with me. I…
do yhuo see this too, I assuredly hope so, thank you
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,435
449
83
I'm not following this either. Can you state your point more succinctly?
Ask God directly for God's love for you, and trust God to reveal the truth to you, thank you
I cannot be any clearer and am sorry you do not get it. Love you
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
18,892
6,486
113
62
Oh boy, God just loves you and me and everyone else too
Freedom is found in knowing that God loves and accepts you. When you know beyond all doubt that you are your Daddy’s delight, you will be free from the need to please others. The pressure to perform will lift and the unholy expectations of men will seem ridiculous. My Father is pleased with me. I…
do yhuo see this too, I assuredly hope so, thank you
I enjoy your spontaneous praise, but it sometimes leaves me wondering of its connection to my posts.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
18,892
6,486
113
62
Ask God directly for God's love for you, and trust God to reveal the truth to you, thank you
I cannot be any clearer and am sorry you do not get it. Love you
I'm already assured of God's love for me.

I would be interested to know what led you to believe I don't.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,843
1,854
113
2 views:
From Abraham's perspective...exercised faith and accounted righteous. God makes known to Him what is true of him...God will provide Himself a Lamb.
From God's perspective...Jesus is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Righteousness will be declared (revealed) through faith. Faith will come by My words.

Why does God tell us that Jesus was slain before the foundation of the world? What does it mean?
If one is not made alive UNTIL they have faith.

none of the rest matters.

All this means is That Gods plan was put in place before the foundation of the world. He carried it out. and is in the process of completing it today (as we still have people who need to trust him)
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,843
1,854
113
So what precedes what: His mercy and compassion precedes faith and redemption or does faith precede mercy and faith?
We are saved By Grace (Gods mercy and compassion paid for by the blood of his sin) THROUGH FAITH

You can;t remove faith from the equation

If the latter, then how can it be that God has mercy and compassion based on his choice, since the sinner [sovereignly] chose God first, then this would make God indebted to the sinner.
But the sinner did not chose God. You need to set aside your calvinistic viewpoint and everything you have been taught

the tax collector did not chose God. He called out for Gods mercy and begged for his forgiveness.

Hint: When God "came down" to rescue and redeem the Israelites from Egypt, was it because the Israelites were a people of faith, and so God subsequently decided to make good on his promises to Abraham, or did he sovereignly choose to rescue them in spite of their overall faithless condition, and then subsequently, after the parting of the Red Sea, [many] Israelites came to believe in God and in his Servant Moses?
Actually from what I remember, Only a few of them came to faith. They rest of them died in the wilderness because of their unbelief

Its no different here.

Jesus died for everyone, Just like the lamb was slaughtered and through it freedom was purchased.

But only those who chose to have faith in God entered the promised land. (Moses is a seperate story)

Again, in john 3. Moses lifted the serpent, that serpent was Gods mercy and compassion offered to everyone that was there. His salvation was free to all who were there. But only those who trusted in God and actually looked to the serpent lived. the rest died in unbelief.

again, Throw away your calvinist playbook. and look to the actual word of God