The hatred of Jews

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
5,798
2,258
113
Yes, I believe He will rule over the nations (with a rod of iron; Rev 2:26-28) from Jerusalem for just 1000 years to clean up the earth (i.e., "remove sin from the land in one day"; Zechariah 3) before giving the authority back to The Almighty (1 Cor 15:28) when Almighty finally comes (bringing heaven with Him; Rev 21). I don't think there will be a built temple though. If anything it will be a grand city built but without walls/partitions (Ezekiel 38:11).

Assuming of a moment that Israel hasn't returned to the land; that the people currently there are not the fulfillment of the promise, The Almighty promised to bring the faithful to the promised land.

In Acts 1:6 before He ascended, the apostles asked Messiah if it was time to restore the kingdom of Israel, but He said it was not for them to know the times and seasons. Of course, we know it was the season of spreading the gospel to the Gentiles.

In Zechariah 14:16-17 we read a prophecy of the aftermath of the nations attacking Jerusalem. We know this is some time after the Messiah returns because it mentions "The King" in the chapter.


Zechariah 14:16-17 (NIV)
16 Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, and to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. 17 If any of the peoples of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, they will have no rain.


So here we can glean a few points:

1) There's a distinction made between The Nations (or the people of Earth) and Jerusalem

2) The "King" is in Jerusalem, or at least on the side of Jerusalem, and the unrepentant nations will coexist with King-led Jerusalem for a time.

[

This supports the passage in Daniel 7:11-12, with "beasts" representing the empires/nations that were created before the "son of man" received authority, destroyed the terrible "beast" kingdom, and ruled over those that remained:

“Then I continued to watch because of the boastful words the horn was speaking. I kept looking until the beast was slain and its body destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire. The other beasts had been stripped of their authority, but were allowed to live for a period of time.

]

3) There will be a yearly requirement for people from the earth specifically to travel to Jerusalem to celebrate the feast and to worship the King, and if they don't comply they will be punished (i.e. rod of iron; Rev 2:26-28). Why is Jerusalem specifically mentioned as a destination for worship if the king isn't there?


So I believe true Israel (believer Jews and believer Gentiles) will be gathered to Him and He will settle them in the land. The kingdom of heaven is like a fisherman who casts a wide net that gathers many different fish (Matthew 13:47-48)...

- The "Net" is the dispersed of Israel. This is why their punishment (scattering) coincides with the "time of the Gentiles" (and the spreading of the gospel to them; Romans 11).

- The Gentiles who believe and are grafted into the Root, are the "fishes".

- When the full number of Gentiles come in, The fisherman draws in the net (i.e. regathering of remnant natural branches who believe in Messiah with grafted in Gentiles) for the full harvest, bringing in all who are His.

- He returns all to the land by creating multiple partings (like what happened at the Reed Sea), He joins both houses again ending their past feud, He takes care of Edom who will be in the land when He comes.


Isaiah 11:11-16
And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

13 The envy also of Ephraim shall depart, and the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off: Ephraim shall not envy Judah, and Judah shall not vex Ephraim.

14 But they shall fly upon the shoulders of the Philistines toward the west; they shall spoil them of the east together: they shall lay their hand upon Edom and Moab; and the children of Ammon shall obey them.

15 And the Lord shall utterly destroy the tongue of the Egyptian sea; and with his mighty wind shall he shake his hand over the river, and shall smite it in the seven streams, and make men go over dryshod.

16 And there shall be an highway for the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria; like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt.

----

Historicism is a method of interpretation in Christian eschatology that links biblical prophecies to historical events. Historicist interpretations of the Book of Revelation, also known as the continuous historical view, view the book as a continuous fulfillment of prophecy that begins with Daniel's time, continues through John of Patmos' writing of the book, and ends with the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. Historicists believe that the book's purpose was to encourage and counsel early Christians, while also extending its prophetic images beyond their time to a final victory.

Historicism was the original ecological position of the reformers before the emergence of Preterism and Futurism.

Here is a graphic outline of my unique position as a Historicist (with passages). Best viewed on a computer.
Will review the spreadsheet and links... will try to keep and open mind, but fulfilled eschatology works so well it may be hard to be objective, I am sure I will have questions. :)
 

ThereRoseaLamb

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2023
4,726
2,023
113
Lol. Why is being anti-genocide seen as Leftist?
.

Come on Mo, don't put words in my mouth that I didn't say.

I go with the truth.
.
Well sometimes something seems like the truth and isn't. A lot of history has been rewritten and it's not truth but revisionist history.

When I expose Communists, that's for some reason seen as far right.
Umm I had a talk with someone on that subject, went in circles. Any day is a good day to be against Communism. It's not being taught in schools and people are falling for it again. Except for Latinos and others who have experience with it.


When I argue against genocide by the Rothschild state of Israel, it's seen as Leftist. Communism is a Jewish invention. The state of Israel might be portrayed as right wing, but so were the Nazis. Fascists are really just Communists in drag.
Communism is a Jewish invention? I've looked that up before. Got a half and half view on that. I don't believe we studied that in high school. You?
 

Moses_Young

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2019
9,948
5,514
113
Come on Mo, don't put words in my mouth that I didn't say.
Wasn't it implied, by deliberately choosing a Leftist "fact checker" to convince me because it was a Leftist one? Or the Leftist wasn't selected with me in mind?

Well sometimes something seems like the truth and isn't. A lot of history has been rewritten and it's not truth but revisionist history.
A lot of history is also written to put the winners in a more favourable light. For example, to make out that the Allies weren't also guilty of genocide in World War 2. Or the Commies, who supposedly saved us from the Germans, weren't also guilty of genociding people within their own countries. It seems like genocide was simply how everyone rolled in that day, but the Germans get all the blame for it. (Not that I support genocide, but I'm against all genocide, not just particular genocides).

Umm I had a talk with someone on that subject, went in circles. Any day is a good day to be against Communism. It's not being taught in schools and people are falling for it again. Except for Latinos and others who have experience with it.
There's a reason it's not taught in schools, and the reason is so people will fall for it again. ;-)

Communism is a Jewish invention? I've looked that up before. Got a half and half view on that. I don't believe we studied that in high school. You?
There is also a reason this is not taught in schools. The (so-called) Jews - really Zionists - want people to support them because of Nazi genocide (which they often try to blame on Christians), whilst they carry out their own genocides with impunity (e.g. Communism, which primarily targeted Christians, by Stalin and other leading Communists who were (so-called) Jews, and the current genocide in Gaza by the same types - so-called Zionists).
 

ThereRoseaLamb

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2023
4,726
2,023
113
Wasn't it implied, by deliberately choosing a Leftist "fact checker" to convince me because it was a Leftist one? Or the Leftist wasn't selected with me in mind?
The last one.

A lot of history is also written to put the winners in a more favourable light. For example, to make out that the Allies weren't also guilty of genocide in World War 2. Or the Commies, who supposedly saved us from the Germans, weren't also guilty of genociding people within their own countries. It seems like genocide was simply how everyone rolled in that day, but the Germans get all the blame for it. (Not that I support genocide, but I'm against all genocide, not just particular genocides).
There's a reason it's not taught in schools, and the reason is so people will fall for it again. ;-)
Well the Commies were certainly guilty of it and that hasn't been taught enough. I think if you ask the average teen today they wouldn't know what the word meant, let alone the players. Yep, people will fall for it again.



There is also a reason this is not taught in schools. The (so-called) Jews - really Zionists - want people to support them because of Nazi genocide (which they often try to blame on Christians),
I've never known Jews that wanted to be seen as victims. Many of them never spoke about the horrors they had been through and what they had seen. And yes, they have every right to blame the German Christians. The hatred of Jews flowed from Martin Luther, through many of the church fathers and continues even today.

whilst they carry out their own genocides with impunity (e.g. Communism, which primarily targeted Christians, by Stalin and other leading Communists who were (so-called) Jews, and the current genocide in Gaza by the same types - so-called Zionists).
I'll do a deeper dive on that. I don't believe Jews were either the inventor or spreader or Communism. Not saying no Jews were Communist, I just believe they can be blamed for it.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,572
9,091
113
Thank you Israel for terminating this Islamic dog, responsible for so many American deaths:
From the article.

Shukr had been wanted by the US for orchestrating the bombing that killed 241 American servicemen at a US Marines barracks in Beirut in 1982, before Hezbollah was officially founded.

He went into hiding after he helped plan the 1985 hijacking of TWA Flight 847 from Athens to the United States.



Phone call lured Hezbollah's Shukr to his Beirut apartment minutes before strike - report | The Times of Israel
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,121
2,151
113
I have a question for those that think that Jerusalem is not the Jerusalem from above, as the best argument I've heard as cited (Isaiah 54:1) in Galatians 4:27 (concerning the proclamation that, "... you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of the promise (gal 4:28) and included in the context of that cited chapter is another citation in John 6:45 (Isaiah 54:13, which I have recently mentioned as having adopted as a favorite, "Then all your sons will be taught of the LORD, and great will be their prosperity." So, then, where is the Jerusalem from above?

to which God promises?

Isaiah 54
9“For to Me this is like the days of Noah,c (some manuscripts For this is like the water of Noah *my added thought; a likened representation of what now saves us)
when I swore that the waters of Noah
would never again cover the earth.
So I have sworn that I will not be angry with you
or rebuke you.


10Though the mountains may be removed
and the hills may be shaken,
My loving devotion will not depart from you,
and My covenant of peace will not be broken,”

says the LORD, who has compassion on you.

Now, lets look at the verses that follow v. 13

14In righteousness you will be established,
far from oppression,
for you will have no fear.
Terror will be far removed,
for it will not come near you.

15If anyone attacks you, it is not from Me;
whoever assails you will fall before you.


16Behold, I have created the craftsman
who fans the coals into flame
and forges a weapon fit for its task;
and I have created the destroyer
to wreak havoc.

17No weapon formed against you shall prosper,
and you will refute every tongue that accuses you.
This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD,
and their vindication is from Me,”

I've emphasized v. 14 to indicate the signature of this Jerusalem, how we will know that it is she, the woman of promise although she is not mentioned as Rebecca explicitly as Hagar's mention. Interesting considering the possible significance in that example woman having borne Jacob and Esau for Isaac, in regard to the fact that God Himself claiming that He is the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob.

I have my own conclusions about this question, even if they are not yet finalized, exactly as I'd like to be sure.
This nation is a champion so, what nation has never lost at war? The Vietnam Conflict comes to mind in frustrating this answer to be the US, however, this also occurred during a time in history that might have well qualified as the beginning of the great 'falling away,' and it is not actually clear that it can be counted as a 'loss' to "whoever assails you,' since it isn't that this actual 'city' was what was being defended.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,316
6,610
113
One question....

Why would Christ Jesus need to bring the faithful to the promised land at His return, does you position believe He is going to rule from a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem?
Because the covenant made with Abraham is made for all generations and is an everlasting covenant.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,771
113
So, then, where is the Jerusalem from above?
"From above" says it all.

1. So this Jerusalem is the HEAVENLY CITY New Jerusalem, "whose Builder and Maker is God". Abraham was given a vision of this city while on earth.

2. It is the same city which is fifteen cubic miles in dimension (L x w x H). That is almost the size of a large continent. But it is also a cube, with height. Imagine the amount of space within this city.

3. It is the same city which is PRESENTLY OCCUPIED by all the OT saints as well as all the NT saints . But that is not all. It is also presently occupied by God the Father, the Lord Jesus Christ, and all the holy angels (see Hebrews 12). It is within Heaven itself, and has the heavenly sanctuary. It also has the Paradise of God.

4. It is the same city where Christ said there are MANY MANSIONS for all the saints.

5. It is the same city which will come down from Heaven and give light to the earth AS A HEAVENLY BODY. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.(Rev 21:23,24) Those nations will be on earth, so how could they walk in the light of that city unless it was a replacement for the sun -- a heavenly body?

Will there still be redeemed and restored Jerusalem on earth, which will also receive light from the New Jerusalem? Of course. There are dozens of Scripture in the OT which reveal that.

So there will always be TWO JERUSALEMS. The first which descends from Heaven, and the second in which the Millennial Temple will be built. See the prophecy of Exekiel, chapters 40-47. This Jerusalem will be in greater Israel, which will be occupied by the redeemed and restored twelve tribes of Israel. See Ezekiel chapter 48.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,121
2,151
113
"From above" says it all.

1. So this Jerusalem is the HEAVENLY CITY New Jerusalem, "whose Builder and Maker is God". Abraham was given a vision of this city while on earth.

2. It is the same city which is fifteen cubic miles in dimension (L x w x H). That is almost the size of a large continent. But it is also a cube, with height. Imagine the amount of space within this city.

3. It is the same city which is PRESENTLY OCCUPIED by all the OT saints as well as all the NT saints . But that is not all. It is also presently occupied by God the Father, the Lord Jesus Christ, and all the holy angels (see Hebrews 12). It is within Heaven itself, and has the heavenly sanctuary.

4. It is the same city where Christ said there are MANY MANSIONS for all the saints.

5. It is the same city which will come down from Heaven and give light to the earth AS A HEAVENLY BODY. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.(Rev 21:23,24) Those nations will be on earth, so how could they walk in the light of that city unless it was a replacement for the sun -- a heavenly body?

Will there still be redeemed and restored Jerusalem on earth, which will also receive light from the New Jerusalem? Of course. There are dozens of Scripture in the OT which reveal that.

So there will always be TWO JERUSALEMS. The first which descends from Heaven, and the second in which the Millennial Temple will be built. See the prophecy of Exekiel, chapters 40-47. This Jerusalem will be in greater Israel, which will be occupied by the redeemed and restored twelve tribes of Israel. See Ezekiel chapter 48.
I understand that view of 'from above' as being a positional interpretation, physically speaking, i.e. a vertical juxtaposition sense of location. For my want of proper descriptive word of what I'm thinking other than that, I'm considering the view that is 'another level', higher, upright, moral, elevated, upper ranks. All of these do not rule out the 'from above' qualification of the 2nd city if these are characteristics of it. And this is possibly exactly why the "MAGA" campaign appeals to me, it contains the same idea.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,316
6,610
113
The temple served its purpose, Christ Jesus is the everlasting covenant.
That is a simplistic view of the covenant in the Old Testament. In Leviticus it explains about how God will deal with unbelief. In Ezekiel it gives us the time frame for the punishment to Israel for both Judah and the ten tribes. In Deuteronomy we also see how God would deal with this.

If you look at those three books it is clear the only time that God would bring back both Judah and the ten tribes to the land would be 1948. They were punished and when they didn't repent the punishment was multiplied 7 fold and the expiration for both Judah and Israel was 1948. Ezekiel explains this in the prophecy about the two sticks being one.
 

daisyseesthesun

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2024
607
332
63
You can express your views freely.
But you should love your god with all your heart.
Instead of loving Zionism with all your heart.
You can love them.But only if your heart is all with God.
but What is your reason for supporting them?
Slaughter all the pagans? Or preach the gospel to everyone?Which is the thing that God commands us?Don't you understand?
Should we call them heavenly Restore nationalism?
They are building hell instead of kingdom of heaven.
They want to embrace peace.But they went to a Muslim church and beat people up.
If they go to a Muslim church to preach the gospel, I will support them with my hands and feet.
If your so-called racismAren't they racist?



I support Israel because our heavenly father calls them his people, His beloved, and the apple of his eye. Then, there are many verses about woe unto those who oppose Israel.


Israel has always had many warring people in it and around it. The Bible identifies these people as descendants of Ishmael Esau and Lot's children, who became the Moabites, Ammonites, and Edomites mixed with the Egyptians, Hittites, and Philistines.


In Genesis 16:12, "He shall be a wild man; His hand shall be against every man, And every man's hand against him. And he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren." This verse tells us the temperament of the Arabs. But anything is possible with God, and millions convert from Islam to Christianity each year.

"And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation." The Arabs have 7 Sheikhs, 2 kings, 2 emirs, and 1 sultan. There are now 1.8 billion Muslims worldwide and 15.7 million Jews.

Thus, God's promise is fulfilled. Genesis 22:17 "That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;"


The LORD is righteous in all his ways, And holy in all his works God's promise is fulfilled."

God put the Israelites and the children on Ishmael there. If they don't get along it's because God doesn't want them to get along. After all, is he not the God that sees the past and future and the ending before the beginning?
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,316
6,610
113
That is a simplistic view of the covenant in the Old Testament. In Leviticus it explains about how God will deal with unbelief. In Ezekiel it gives us the time frame for the punishment to Israel for both Judah and the ten tribes. In Deuteronomy we also see how God would deal with this.

If you look at those three books it is clear the only time that God would bring back both Judah and the ten tribes to the land would be 1948. They were punished and when they didn't repent the punishment was multiplied 7 fold and the expiration for both Judah and Israel was 1948. Ezekiel explains this in the prophecy about the two sticks being one.
Thank you, I consider a red X from Moses Young on this post to be the equivalent to a Good Housekeeping seal of approval from God.
 

Moses_Young

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2019
9,948
5,514
113
Thank you, I consider a red X from Moses Young on this post to be the equivalent to a Good Housekeeping seal of approval from God.
This. You calling Jesus Christ being God's everlasting covenant a simplistic view of scripture. Dangerous words, in my view.

The temple served its purpose, Christ Jesus is the everlasting covenant.
That is a simplistic view of the covenant in the Old Testament.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,316
6,610
113
This. You calling Jesus Christ being God's everlasting covenant a simplistic view of scripture. Dangerous words, in my view.
I didn't say it was wrong, I said it was simplistic.

Our covenant with God by the blood of Jesus Christ is an eternal covenant. But so is the covenant that Abraham made.

Jacob had two wives, that means two marriage covenants.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
5,798
2,258
113
This. You calling Jesus Christ being God's everlasting covenant a simplistic view of scripture. Dangerous words, in my view.
It is also dangerous to add to scripture, I ran an entire Bible search for "year 1948" and the response was "No Results"
 

NilsForChrist

Active member
Jan 31, 2023
180
86
28
Thank you Israel for terminating this Islamic dog, responsible for so many American deaths:
From the article.

Shukr had been wanted by the US for orchestrating the bombing that killed 241 American servicemen at a US Marines barracks in Beirut in 1982, before Hezbollah was officially founded.

He went into hiding after he helped plan the 1985 hijacking of TWA Flight 847 from Athens to the United States.



Phone call lured Hezbollah's Shukr to his Beirut apartment minutes before strike - report | The Times of Israel
Should we not grieve that he never repented? God has no respect of person.

Your comment is outright to wicked. I am a staunch conservative but I don't allow myself to be restriced to American politics.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,572
9,091
113
Should we not grieve that he never repented? God has no respect of person.

Your comment is outright to wicked. I am a staunch conservative but I don't allow myself to be restriced to American politics.
No. We should not grieve the unsaved dead.

Where is that in Scripture?

Ill save my grief for the loved ones still alive that he murdered. He could have repented, and accepted the Lord, and maybe when he was alive, we could hope for such a thing.
It is appointed for men to die once, and then the judgement. Why would you grieve for an individual that trampled on the Blood of Christ while living, and will be out of eternity with Him and us, lost forever?

Jesus told his followers to "Let the dead (unsaved) bury their dead (unsaved)".


BTW, we see the result of letting these barbarous satan followers into your country en masse.