Marks Of A True Believer In First John.

[PaulThomson]

The false doctrine of progressive sanctification is certainly a hinderance. We would do better to put off the flesh instead ofthinking it gets better over time. And for the life of me, I do not see why people can't grasp the fact that the "new man" was "was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness" (Eph 4:24). How can the new man become more sanctified over time if he was created according to God in true righteousness and holiness?

It is true, however, that self-sanctification improves over time as we learn to walk in lock step with the Spirit. And the call to put off the old man and put on the new man is exactly that -- self sanctification. And it is essentially the same as walking in the Spirit. And only those who live in the Spirit can do it. And this is why it is said, "If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in [lock-step with] the Spirit." (Ga 5:25). This is self-sanctification.

Maybe progresssive sanctification is being transformed by the renewing of your mind, not improving the flesh. Surely, as the mind is renewed, shedding its untrue cultural programming and replacing those untrue beliefs with God's truth, the mind is progressively sanctified. Then the mind and spirit in agreement overrule the flesh so the the body expresses God's will. Perhaps the spirit was fully sanctified at regeneration; the mind is being sanctified as the mind is being renewed; and the body of flesh will be sanctified at the resurrection.

 

[HeIsHere]

Maybe progresssive sanctification is being transformed by the renewing of your mind, not improving the flesh. Surely, as the mind is renewed, shedding its untrue cultural programming and replacing those untrue beliefs with God's truth, the mind is progressively sanctified. Then the mind and spirit in agreement overrule the flesh so the the body expresses God's will. Perhaps the spirit was fully sanctified at regeneration; the mind is being sanctified as the mind is being renewed; and the body of flesh will be sanctified at the resurrection.

Funny, I made a similar statement in another thread.

Renewing of the mind being a reformation of thinking patterns and aligning itself with truth.
The mind being between flesh and spirit. Romans 8:6

Phil 4:8
Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

The flesh being the self centered/ruling force of human needs and desires.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Absolutely agree on the first paragraph!!

Not sure I would use the term self-sanctification, I like the language of consistently leaning into our new nature/the righteousness of the Spirit within.
We identify with certain terms so if it speaks to you as a way of encapsulating paragraph one, then that is what matters!

I find self-sanctification in 2 Timothy 2:21, 1 Peter 3:15, and Romans 6:11-13. It is God’s calling for us to consider and act according to the truth that God Himself has sanctified us. We should consider ourselves set apart, culled us out, cleansed of our sins by the blood of Jesus, made one with Him by new life in Christ, and called into full-time service to Him. And we should present ourselves to God as such every day.

Our acceptance of the fact that we have true righteousness and holiness in Christ (Ro 6:11), and our daily choice to present ourselves to God as people who are alive from the dead and as instruments to be used by Him for His glory (Ro 6:13) has nothing to do with progressively putting away our sins. It only has to do with us making an identical choice every day to separate ourselves to God and to walk with Him in the newness of life (Ro 6:4).

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Maybe progresssive sanctification is being transformed by the renewing of your mind, not improving the flesh. Surely, as the mind is renewed, shedding its untrue cultural programming and replacing those untrue beliefs with God's truth, the mind is progressively sanctified. Then the mind and spirit in agreement overrule the flesh so the the body expresses God's will. Perhaps the spirit was fully sanctified at regeneration; the mind is being sanctified as the mind is being renewed; and the body of flesh will be sanctified at the resurrection.

I see self-sanctification as an identical choice we must make every day. If we choose to walk with God every day in the newness of life, some things will change: Our trust in God will increase (2 Co 10:15). Our knowledge of God will grow (Col 1:10). Our discernment of good and evil will sharpen (Heb 5:14). Our spirits will grow stronger (Eph 3:16). Our love for one another will abound (1 Thess 3:12). The fruits of our righteousness will multiply (2 Co 9:10). Our brethren with whom we interact will be strengthened (Acts 18:23). And our numbers will increase (Acts 16:5).

I think we agree that these things are not evidence of God cleaning us up over time or of us becoming more and more like Jesus over time. I think they are the fruits of walking in the Spirit. Their existence proves that God has given us new lives in Christ Jesus, that we possess everything we need for life and godliness, and that fruitful Christian lives happen only when we trust God and walk with Him—as He leads us, guides us, and directs us from the depths of our own hearts (Ga 5:16–26).

Thankfully, the flesh will be done away with upon our physical deaths, and we will receive a spiritual body fit for eternity.

 

[HeIsHere]

I find self-sanctification in 2 Timothy 2:21, 1 Peter 3:15, and Romans 6:11-13. It is God’s calling for us to consider and act according to the truth that God Himself has sanctified us. We should consider ourselves set apart, culled us out, cleansed of our sins by the blood of Jesus, made one with Him by new life in Christ, and called into full-time service to Him. And we should present ourselves to God as such every day.

Our acceptance of the fact that we have true righteousness and holiness in Christ (Ro 6:11), and our daily choice to present ourselves to God as people who are alive from the dead and as instruments to be used by Him for His glory (Ro 6:13) has nothing to do with progressively putting away our sins. It only has to do with us making an identical choice every day to separate ourselves to God and to walk with Him in the newness of life (Ro 6:4).

Ahh, yes I see how you are employing the term.

Thank you for the elaboration, so important to remember the meaning of sanctification as "being set apart" and not increasing piety as I was taught years ago!

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Ahh, yes I see how you are employing the term.

Thank you for the elaboration, so important to remember the meaning of sanctification as "being set apart" and not increasing piety as I was taught years ago!

You're right that the word is easily misunderstood. I researched it quite thoroughly a few years ago. This is what I concluded:

Furthermore, if we understood sanctification properly, we would know that it is not progressive at all. The word itself means “holiness, i.e., dedication to the Lord, and/or dedication to moral purity.”[1] In the New Testament, the meaning of sanctification is anchored by its use in the Old Testament. There, it is used most basically to describe objects, animals or people that have been culled out and often segregated from a larger group of similar items, physically cleaned up, sometimes ceremonially cleaned up (by the sprinkling of the blood of an animal sacrifice), and dedicated wholly for service to God.​

[1] Swanson, J. (1997). Dictionary of Biblical Languages with Semantic Domains : Greek (New Testament) (electronic ed.). Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems, Inc. ​

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I'm not telling people they are lost if they are not sinless. I am telling them that "the new man" was "created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness" (Eph 4:24). I am telling them that "he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him" (1 Co 6:17). I am telling them that "if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness" (Ro 8:10). What do these things mean to you?

What they tell me is that when Christ came to live in our hearts, we became one with Him in our innermost being. We still deal with the flesh, and it is still corrupt. But the corruption of the flesh does not bleed over into our innermost being, though we are grieved by our closeness to it. And to me it is foolish to think that the old man (the flesh) can be trained to be good or that the new man (the spirit) can be corrupted by the flesh. So, my message is to put off the old man and put on the new man.

yes again I wasn’t trying to revoke your message or argue …. it’s a good point Just my point “this is how that happens for us who believe “

“Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:39-40‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:45‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:27-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

……Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32, 51‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:49-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: …Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:22, 24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:27-30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭

“Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Later Paul’s referring to that same thing here

“if so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; and be renewed in the spirit of your mind; and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:21-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what I’m poorly and unskillful my trying to say here is it is leading people to Jesus the real One from the bibles gospel is what changes they for the better

all those sinners flock to jesus in the gospel because he loves them before they changed anything at all enough to suffer and die

i understand what your saying and agree I was just saying the bi me tells us how God accomplishes it all as we accept faith by the gospel

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

yes again I wasn’t trying to revoke your message or argue …. it’s a good point Just my point “this is how that happens for us who believe “

“Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:39-40‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:45‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:27-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

……Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32, 51‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:49-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: …Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:22, 24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:27-30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭

“Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Later Paul’s referring to that same thing here

“if so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; and be renewed in the spirit of your mind; and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:21-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what I’m poorly and unskillful my trying to say here is it is leading people to Jesus the real One from the bibles gospel is what changes they for the better

all those sinners flock to jesus in the gospel because he loves them before they changed anything at all enough to suffer and die

i understand what your saying and agree I was just saying the bi me tells us how God accomplishes it all as we accept faith by the gospel

OK, I understand. I think you are saying it well.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

OK, I understand. I think you are saying it well.

I thought you said what you were saying well also I’m sorry I didn’t make that clear just wanting to discuss the truth your talking about

 

[NilsForChrist]

How could the audience be only Jewish when John was writing after many Gentiles had come into the Church? And now we are the audience. We should not be misleading others. Some hyper-grace people claim that this letter was written to Gnostics or heretics and not to Christians. More nonsense.

Fully agreed. It was written ABOUT gnostics. 1 John 2:1 repeats this. Suppose hyper gracers can't read beyong the 1st chapter.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Fully agreed. It was written ABOUT gnostics. 1 John 2:1 repeats this. Suppose hyper gracers can't read beyong the 1st chapter.

What's a hyper gracer? Is it the opposite of a hyper workser?

 

[j55]

Can we know objectively that a person is a true believer? The Apostle John thought so.
A true believer.......
1. Walks in the light 1:7.
2. Keeps His commandments 2:3.
3. Has a Christlike walk 2:6.
4. Loves other Christians. 2:10, 3:14.
5. Practices righteousness. 2:29, 3:7.
6. Does not continue in sin. 3:6,9.
7. Overcomes the World. 5:4.

Should you think the standard is too high, this demonstrates how low we have fallen from the Scriptures.
The modern Gospel avoids talking about sin, repentance and the cost in following Jesus.
Is it no wonder that we have so many 'counterfeit' Christians.
Multitudes of so called 'Christians" are heading for a Christless Eternity.

It is time we returned to a Scriptural Gospel and the claims of Christ.

Agree.