Does anyone know of....

[Rufus]

Does quoting the following make me guilty of calling God a liar?

Luke 1:5-6
5 In the days of Herod, king of Judea, there was a priest named Zacharias, of the division of Abijah; and he had a wife from the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth. 6 They were both righteous in the sight of God, walking blamelessly in all the commandments and requirements of the Lord.

You still haven't answered my question. Why can't you answer? Now you bring another biblical actor into the mix before dealing with the Josiah-Jesus problem. So, tell me: What makes Zacharias different from Jesus, since you evidently still believe that this priest was not sinless as Jesus was, even though he was a righteous man, "walking blamelessly in all the commandments and requirements of the Lord"? In your universe what does it take for one to be sinless, as Jesus was?

 

[Lamar]

You still haven't answered my question. Why can't you answer? Now you bring another biblical actor into the mix before dealing with the Josiah-Jesus problem. So, tell me: What makes Zacharias different from Jesus, since you evidently still believe that this priest was not sinless as Jesus was, even though he was a righteous man, "walking blamelessly in all the commandments and requirements of the Lord"? In your universe what does it take for one to be sinless, as Jesus was?

There is no "Josiah-Jesus problem". This is a problem in your own head.

It is you who brought Jesus into this discussion. King Josiah was not sinless.

No one is saying that King Josiah was sinless. No one.

But the Bible does call Josiah, Zacharias and Elizabeth as righteous and walking blamelessly.

Your issue seems to be with the chosen verbiage of the Biblical authors and not me.

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

Does anyone know of people who are convinced of the validity of the tenets of Calvinism and are also assured that they are not part of those chosen few?

If we can be assured of our salvation because of predestination, can the opposite be true of our damnation?

BIG "IF" but logically follows. PERSONALLY, I couldn't care less about "ISMS" since they're nothing but "theology" - which is like noses. Everybody's got one.

Biblically, "SECURITY" comes when the Holy Spirit bears witness to MY spirit that I'm a child of God (Rom 8:16). "Theology" can't give anybody Security, but the witness of the Holy Spirit CAN, and DOES.

It's called "FAITH". YOU have to hold onto and defend your "theology beliefs". Biblical FAITH hold on to you.

 

[Magenta]

Bravo👏👏👏👏 Nice to hear a male voice in my head, lol🙏🙌

And what about those eyes? LOL. They were an "add-on" and I removed as much
mascara as I could heh. He reminds me of that aqua man guy, Jason Mamoa...

That is interesting that you read with a "voice" .. I had not really considered that
before. I design with women mostly because after designing one of my Acts panels
with a woman I felt a stronger sense of personal connection with/to the Scripture...

This one:

Acts 13:38-39

 

[Magenta]

"SECURITY" comes when the Holy Spirit bears witness to MY spirit that I'm a child of God (Rom 8:16).

Romans 8:15-16

 

[Rufus]

There is no "Josiah-Jesus problem". This is a problem in your own head.

It is you who brought Jesus into this discussion. King Josiah was not sinless.

No one is saying that King Josiah was sinless. No one.

But the Bible does call Josiah, Zacharias and Elizabeth as righteous and walking blamelessly.

Your issue seems to be with the chosen verbiage of the Biblical authors and not me.[/QUOTE]

No, my issue with Nehemiah's chosen verbiage, which you obviously don't want to deal with. He said king Josiah obeyed God's law PERFECTLY. What part of this don't you get? How can someone obey God's law perfectly and not be sinless? According to the bible sin is lawlessness! This is why I brought Jesus into the discussion because he was one who obeyed perfectly and was sinless, according to Heb 4:15. So, you need to explain to me what made Josiah and Jesus different. How come Jesus was sinless and yet Josiah wasn't even though he obeyed the Law as perfectly as Jesus?

And then because you can't give me an honest, straightforward answer to my above question and insist on taking up the defense of Neh66, you come along and double down on his insanity. You bring Zacharias into the conversation, even though this priest does nothing to help Neh66's case, nor does the Lukian text answer my questions that I've been asking you.

But it even gets worse for you as Neh66's wanna-be "public defender"! Why quote the Lukian passage when everyone here knows that Zacharias doesn't fit Neh66's "perfect law-keeping" mode any more than Josiah did!? You conveniently left out the larger context of Luke 1 that tells us that God temporally punished Zacharias because he did not believe God's appointed messenger (Lk 1:20). So, evidently, while Zacharias is characterized as "righteous" and "observing all the Lord's commandments and regulations blamelessly", all these accolades do not equate to Neh66's perfect law-keeping claim, since the priest was punished for not believing God's messenger. So, it looks like Jesus and only Jesus has the bragging rights and the mortal lock on perfect faith, perfect faithfulness and perfect obedience. And I'm guessing that these facts probably have something to do with why only Jesus is characterized in scripture as being sinless. So, why did you bring this non sequitar Zacharias into the discussion knowing he was still a sinner!? How did Zacharias help Neh66's case?

I already addressed Josiah since he is being compared to another imperfect being -- his father king David; therefore, logically speaking Josiah also cannot be characterized as one who "obeyed God's commandments perfectly".

It is guys like you and Neh66 -- purveyors of a false gospel -- who will go out of your way to make fools of yourselves if that's what it takes to prop up your heresies. You should be ashamed of yourselves but it appears your hearts have been hardened against believing the true gospel. Certainly not a good place to be spiritually!

 

[Rufus]

BIG "IF" but logically follows. PERSONALLY, I couldn't care less about "ISMS" since they're nothing but "theology" - which is like noses. Everybody's got one.

Biblically, "SECURITY" comes when the Holy Spirit bears witness to MY spirit that I'm a child of God (Rom 8:16). "Theology" can't give anybody Security, but the witness of the Holy Spirit CAN, and DOES.

It's called "FAITH". YOU have to hold onto and defend your "theology beliefs". Biblical FAITH hold on to you.

Soo...theology is a big nothing burger?

Hate to break this news to you but one is born again by the Spirit and the Word of God (which just so happens to contain quite a bit of theology that you seem to disdain so much. The Holy Spirit gives us the personal, experiential, subjective assurances we need while the living Word of God gives of the authoritative, infallible, inspired objective truth claims that we are to meditate on, study, hide in our hearts, etc. so what we can objectively know the will of God and grow in his grace and knowledge. Both the Holy Spirit and the Word are indispensable components to the Christian Faith and Life -- to Orthodoxy and Orthopraxy.

 

[Lamar]

This is what a poster wrote very recently about king Josiah:

That was not the point. the point was the capability of obeying the Law. And here is just one example where Josiah obeyed the Law perfectly:

So...if Josiah did obey the law perfectly (like Jesus did), wouldn't that make him sinless?

The poster's gross misunderstanding of 2 Ki 32 and 33 re Josiah certainly present serious contradictions in scripture, since scripture says that all men are sinners. So...I asked the poster to address this problem, which of course he did not. I know there are no contradictions in scripture, and that the Law of Noncontradiction is one of the major acid tests for testing anyone's interpretation of any given passage.

Is this your issue? That Nehemiah6 used the word "perfectly" to describe his not turning from the "left or the right" in the context of 2nd Kings 22:2?

Be honest, is this really your issue?

Do you think that Nehemiah6 is implying that not "turning to the left or right" equals living a sinless life?

 

[Rufus]

Is this your issue? That Nehemiah6 used the word "perfectly" to describe his not turning from the "left or the right" in the context of 2nd Kings 22:2?

Be honest, is this really your issue?

Do you think that Nehemiah6 is implying that not "turning to the left or right" equals living a sinless life?

Well, Neh66 explicitly said Josiah OBEYED GOD'S LAW PERFECTLY. His words! So...apparently Neh66 interprets "not turning to the left or right" as being equal with perfect obedience. So, tell me how can one be perfectly obedient to God's law and not be as sinless as Jesus who also obeyed his Father perfectly?

 

[Lamar]

Well, Neh66 explicitly said Josiah OBEYED GOD'S LAW PERFECTLY. His words! So...apparently Neh66 interprets "not turning to the left or right" as being equal with perfect obedience. So, tell me how can one be perfectly obedient to God's law and not be as sinless as Jesus who also obeyed his Father perfectly?

Your reasoning is absurd.

The term "not turning to the left or right" means simply to obey God's commands without exception. The context of 2nd Kings 22:2 is limited to King Josiah's obedience to God's commands concerning his duties as king.

The Bible states that King Josiah followed these commands perfectly. This does not mean that King Josiah led a sinless life.

This is all in your head.

 

[HeIsHere]

BIG "IF" but logically follows. PERSONALLY, I couldn't care less about "ISMS" since they're nothing but "theology" - which is like noses. Everybody's got one.

Biblically, "SECURITY" comes when the Holy Spirit bears witness to MY spirit that I'm a child of God (Rom 8:16). "Theology" can't give anybody Security, but the witness of the Holy Spirit CAN, and DOES.

It's called "FAITH". YOU have to hold onto and defend your "theology beliefs". Biblical FAITH hold on to you.

Security is also based on God's promises in His written word.

 

[Rufus]

Your reasoning is absurd.

The term "not turning to the left or right" means simply to obey God's commands without exception. The context of 2nd Kings 22:2 is limited to King Josiah's obedience to God's commands concerning his duties as king.

The Bible states that King Josiah followed these commands perfectly. This does not mean that King Josiah led a sinless life.

This is all in your head.

Where does the bible state that Josiah "followed these commands perfectly." Chapter and verse, please.

And while you're at it, give me chapter and verse on the limitations of Josiah's obedience. 2Ki 22:2 reads:

2 Kings 22:2
2 He did what was right in the eyes of the LORD and walked in all the ways of his father David, not turning aside to the right or to the left.
NIV

There's nothing explicitly or implicitly in this text that would exclude the king's private or personal life. "This is all in your head" to borrow your own words.

So, then the bible is in serious error when it says that Jesus was without sin (Heb 4:15), since Jesus obeyed his Father perfectly too. How can two people obey Gods law perfectly but only one of them is "without sin", i.e. sinless. You keep dodging this question, and now pile on even more to Neh6's insanity by claiming 2 Ki 22:2 says something that it doesn't. The text doesn't say that Josiah walked in all the ways that his father David walked in his public life or royal duties. You''re adding to God's Word, which is strictly forbidden in scripture! In fact, sir, the larger context contradicts your absurd claim! Read v. 13 whereby after the reading of the Book of the Law, Josiah acknowledged the wickedness of Israel's fathers because of their disobedience to the Law which caused them to not act in accordance with all that was written in the in Law concerning US (i.e. all God's covenant people, including their kings like Josiah). For your info the Book of the Law contained ostensibly all 613 commandments in the Law -- not just the ones pertaining to official duties of the kings. In short, Josiah recognized and acknowledged that all in the Book of the Law applied equally to himself and to all the other people.

 

[Lamar]

Where does the bible state that Josiah "followed these commands perfectly." Chapter and verse, please.

And while you're at it, give me chapter and verse on the limitations of Josiah's obedience. 2Ki 22:2 reads:

2 Kings 22:2
2 He did what was right in the eyes of the LORD and walked in all the ways of his father David, not turning aside to the right or to the left.
NIV

There's nothing explicitly or implicitly in this text that would exclude the king's private or personal life. "This is all in your head" to borrow your own words.

So, then the bible is in serious error when it says that Jesus was without sin (Heb 4:15), since Jesus obeyed his Father perfectly too. How can two people obey Gods law perfectly but only one of them is "without sin", i.e. sinless. You keep dodging this question, and now pile on even more to Neh6's insanity by claiming 2 Ki 22:2 says something that it doesn't. The text doesn't say that Josiah walked in all the ways that his father David walked in his public life or royal duties. You''re adding to God's Word, which is strictly forbidden in scripture! In fact, sir, the larger context contradicts your absurd claim! Read v. 13 whereby after the reading of the Book of the Law, Josiah acknowledged the wickedness of Israel's fathers because of their disobedience to the Law which caused them to not act in accordance with all that was written in the in Law concerning US (i.e. all God's covenant people, including their kings like Josiah). For your info the Book of the Law contained ostensibly all 613 commandments in the Law -- not just the ones pertaining to official duties of the kings. In short, Josiah recognized and acknowledged that all in the Book of the Law applied equally to himself and to all the other people.

The verbiage "Josiah walked in all the ways that his father David walked" is a positive not a negative term. King Josiah is being praised for walking in the ways of King David. Are you aware of this?

Okay, so tell me what is the meaning and context of 2nd Kings 22:2?

 

[Rufus]

The verbiage "Josiah walked in all the ways that his father David walked" is a positive not a negative term. King Josiah is being praised for walking in the ways of King David. Are you aware of this?

Okay, so tell me what is the meaning and context of 2nd Kings 22:2?

Well...the text does say that Josiah walked in ALL the ways that his father David walked". What would compel you to think that this isn't talking about all David's life instead of just his public, official or royal life? Why would you exclude David's private/personal life?

Also, you are aware that David sinned greatly in his royal capacity as Israel's king, right? So, how do you get perfect obedience to God's law out of a man who sinned in his private life and public one? Here's a wild and crazy speculation for you: Maybe this is why the bible does not teach that Josiah obeyed God's laws perfectly.

So... where is the biblical text that says that Josiah kept the law of God perfectly, which is what you claimed in your last post?

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

Security is also based on God's promises in His written word.

However FAITH (without which there's no "Security") comes by HEARING God's Word TO YOU (Rom 10:17).The written Word is all well and Good, but the Holy Spirit SPEAKING THAT WORD to you (the hearing of FAITH) is when it's time to do business. Conviction of SIN is generally where it starts, and then your repentance and calling on God IN FAITH.

 

[PaulThomson]

1 Corinthians 2:12 + 14
Do you and your faithful peanut gallery have none of your usual attempts
to subvert the truth of Scripture in answer to this request of yours?

I can't make head nor tail of your response.

 

[HeIsHere]

However FAITH (without which there's no "Security") comes by HEARING God's Word TO YOU (Rom 10:17).The written Word is all well and Good, but the Holy Spirit SPEAKING THAT WORD to you (the hearing of FAITH) is when it's time to do business. Conviction of SIN is generally where it starts, and then your repentance and calling on God IN FAITH.

I understand your point, however, the first objective assurance of salvation comes from the work of Christ Jesus and the His promises documented in scripture.

As Christians, our assurance of eternal life is, first and foremost, based on the salvific work of Jesus on the cross (Acts 4:12; Rom 5:8; 1 Cor 15:3-4), and the revelation of Scripture that we, who have trusted in Christ as our Savior (Acts 4:12, 16:31), “may know that [we] have eternal life” (1 John 5:13).
This assurance is objective and constant, because God’s Word is sure and does not change.
Dr. Steven R. Cook

 

[Komentaja]

Guys: Does it matter in our day to day life whether we have libertarian free will or whether all is predestinated? Does it affect our Christian walk at all? I would say no it does not, and that is why the biblical authors never explain the tension between predestination and free will, between God's sovereignity and man's responsibility.

 

[Magenta]

I can't make head nor tail of your response.

It was another way of saying I wonder that you and your loyal naysayers have not tried to deny what that
Scripture plainly states... this time, as you have before. I should not be surprised you do not understand.

 

[Cameron143]

Guys: Does it matter in our day to day life whether we have libertarian free will or whether all is predestinated? Does it affect our Christian walk at all? I would say no it does not, and that is why the biblical authors never explain the tension between predestination and free will, between God's sovereignity and man's responsibility.

It can make a difference. God isn't always working everywhere. Jesus did only what He saw the Father doing. We should do the same as it does no good to evangelize indiscriminately. If God is not working, the effort is in vain.
Many people believe Christianity is about doing...it is not. It is about becoming...being conformed to the image of Christ. As God performs this in us we are to work it out. Out of this intimate relationship, God will lead us into opportunities to minister and evangelize.
I don't want to underestimate the effect of casting a wide net. Pentecost itself was an incredible outreach. And God will often use such operations of the Spirit to bring many to faith at once. More often, however, within the common boundaries of life...work, shopping, eating out, etc., God opens doors. We should look to where God is at work and join Him in it.