In impugning God's character as unjust, Job had aligned himself with workers of iniquity. Elihu is not attributing Job's calamities to some previous walk with wicked men. The intensity of the trial drove Job to accuse God in order to justify and defend himself. It seems to me that that is what Elihu is referring to.Job 34:7-8 What man is like Job, who drinketh up scorning like water? Which goeth in company with the workers of iniquity, and walketh with wicked men.
... harsh words from Elihu ...
Total Depravity
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All of them ... Eliphaz, Bildad, Zophar, and Elihu told Job over and over to confess his sin to God and Job would be restored. None of them pointed out a specific sin ... they all spoke in generalities ... because there was no specific sin to point out. They all claimed Job needed to repent without specifying what sin Job needed to repent of; all claimed that if Job repented, his distress would cease.
Again, in reading Job's replies to his friends, we need to consider that Job was responding to what he was hearing from those who were accusing him of sin he did not commit and that was why he was being judged by God.In impugning God's character as unjust, Job had aligned himself with workers of iniquity. Elihu is not attributing Job's calamities to some previous walk with wicked men. The intensity of the trial drove Job to accuse God in order to justify and defend himself. It seems to me that that is what Elihu is referring to.Job 34:7-8 What man is like Job, who drinketh up scorning like water? Which goeth in company with the workers of iniquity, and walketh with wicked men.
Job was not being judged by God. Job was being attacked by satan.
All five of these men (Job included) attributed the onslaught to God, which was ignorance on the part of all five of them ... none of them knew that Job was suffering at the whim of satan.
And I'm not saying Job was perfect in all of his statements ... nor am I saying that all of them were incorrect in all of their statements.
Ezekiel 14:13-14 Son of man, when the land sinneth against me by trespassing grievously, then will I stretch out mine hand upon it, and will break the staff of the bread thereof, and will send famine upon it, and will cut off man and beast from it: Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD.
Job was victorious over the attack of satan.
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It seems to me that Elihu spoke because he was frustrated, because he believed that none of the other three had spoken correctly. I don't see where the idea that He was upset that Job did not bow to what Elihu considered his friends' false advice.
Job. 32: Then Elihu, the son of Barachel the Buzite, of the family of Ram, burned with anger. He burned with anger at Job because he justified himself rather than God. 3. He burned with anger also at Job's three friends because they had found no answer, although they had declared Job to be in the wrong.
It sounds to me like Elihu did not think Job's friends had nailed the reason for Job's calamities, and that the reasons they had proffered were spurious. Elihu does not accuse Job of having done some evil before his calamities for which he was reaping the consequences. He does accuse Job of unwisely and unfairly impugning God during his complaints to God.
In Job 34:37 where Elihu stated he addeth rebellion unto his sin, Elihu said that in addition to the sin which resulted in this calamity in his life, Job was in rebellion in not heeding the counsel of Eliphaz, Bildad and Zophar that Job should repent.
When Elihu said Job clappeth his hands among us, Elihu said that Job was scornful of the advice of his friends.
When Elihu said Job multiplieth his words against God, Elihu said that in continuing to justify himself, Job was speaking against God because Job was being judged by God ... all four of Job's friends believed God was judging Job for some sin for which Job would not repent and, in denying he sinned, Job spoke multiple times against God.
Job continuously insisted that he had not sinned ... iow Elihu concluded that Job "justified himself". Elihu believed Job had sinned just as Eliphaz, Bildad and Zophar believed Job had sinned. So Elihu believed Job justified himself and this caused Elihu to "burn with anger".PaulThomson said:
If Elihu and the three others had believed Job had no sin and if they had known the calamity was an attack from satan, Elihu would not have been angry with Job and the others would have consoled Job rather than condemn him.
Elihu was angry that the arguments of Eliphaz, Bildad and Zophar were not effective in bringing Job to repentance.PaulThomson said:
Here is what Elihu said:
Job 32:12 Yea, I attended unto you, and, behold, there was none of you that convinced Job, or that answered his words
Yes, he did ... I showed you ... you do not want to see that Elihu believed the same as Eliphaz, Bildad, Zophar.PaulThomson said:
The words of Elihu:
Job 36:16-21 Even so would he have removed thee out of the strait into a broad place, where there is no straitness; and that which should be set on thy table should be full of fatness. But thou hast fulfilled the judgment of the wicked: judgment and justice take hold on thee. Because there is wrath, beware lest he take thee away with his stroke: then a great ransom cannot deliver thee. Will he esteem thy riches? no, not gold, nor all the forces of strength. Desire not the night, when people are cut off in their place. Take heed, regard not iniquity: for this hast thou chosen rather than affliction.
In Elihu's estimation, God gives blessings to the obedient and repentant and because Job was not receiving the blessing of God, Job was not obedient and repentant. Instead, Job was going through the judgment due the wicked ... and this absolutely was not true.
The suffering of Job was due to one thing and one thing only ... satan:
Job 2:7 So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.
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Isaiah 42:16 ~ I will lead the blind by a way they did not know; I will guide them on unfamiliar paths. I will turn darkness into light before them and rough places into level ground. These things I will do for them, and I will not forsake them.
Anyone who has had babies should know that babies are born with self-centeredness, which is the essence of sin. They have to be taught that they aren't the center of their world but that God in Christ is. Romans 1 through 3:20 shows that all people are guilty before God, and Ephesians 2:1-3 shows that we are all born sinners who are dead to God and must be given the new birth as our second birth (verses 4-9) through faith by grace. Then, once he saves us, he calls us to do good works in the power of Jesus' resurrection, which gives us the new birth (Colossians 1:1 [Jesus' resurrection] and the rest of the chapter: Paul's commands to make spiritual progress).
Having a sense of self is not sinful. Jesus has a sense of self. The Father has a sense of self.
No baby thinks, "i am the most important thing in the universe."
Any child who eventually comes to that conclusion, learned to think like that from observing others, probably their parents.
Babies have no awareness of the needs of others. They do have awareness of their own needs and desires. No baby ever thought...sorry Mom, I know it's 4 am and you have awakened and fed me twice already, but could you please feed me again? And if it's not too much trouble, could you burp and change me too?
Being aware of only your own needs as a baby is sinful ?!!
I haven't reached a conclusion on the matter. I just thought your handling of what another poster wrote was a bit myopic. It certainly could be evidence of the falleness of man.
Wrong again N6....Foreknowledge in the bible is of people, not events. God ordains whatsoever comes to pass.
I am not even going to show you Scripture that refutes your foolish comment. Where does the Bible even say such a silly thing when God's foreknowledge encompasses everything?
Ephesians 2:1-3 was my latest panel, designed yesterday:
Ephesians 2:1-3 You were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you used to walk when you conformed to the ways of this world and of the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit who is now at work in the sons of disobedience. All of us also lived among them at one time, fulfilling the cravings of our flesh and indulging its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature children of wrath.
Whereas this is from 4.5 years ago:
Ephesians 2:4-7 ~ Because of His great love for us, God, Who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved! And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages He might display the surpassing riches of His grace, demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus.
Ephesians 2:4-7 ~ Because of His great love for us, God, Who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved! And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages He might display the surpassing riches of His grace, demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus.
Evidently you do not know the difference between God's omniscience, and his foreknowledge of the elect.
You miss the point: self-centeredness is not the same thing as a sense of self.
You take your misrepresentations to ridiculous lengths.
Most likely because you idolize your vain imagination.
And father's can give good gifts, but they don't do so to glorify God, but themselves.
Suppose I was poor growing up and got meager presents for my birthday. Now suppose I have children of my own, and on their birthdays I make sure they get a plethora of gifts. Who did I do that for? I did it for myself and how it makes me feel. The gifts themselves are good, but the motivation behind them is not. Thus, the giving doesn't reflect anything good in me.