How should Christians view the Ukraine/Russia situation?

[Nehemiah6]

You should move to Russia....if you don't already live there.

And you should move to the land of objective truth, not subjective hatred for Putin. Putin does what he does, and he does not support liberty and justice for all. But neither does Biden, since there is a Gulag right there in DC. And Zelenksky is just an opportunist who does not care about his country.

 

[SavedByBlood]

America is being lied to and kept in the dark about our own national interests. The world is more like than not being lied to about Russia/Ukraine.
Rev 12:9So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world;

 

[JohnDB]

Currently in the conflict Putin is having some issues with his moving forward....

His troops have thinned to the point of being surrounded. Ukrainian fighters have slipped through around the Kursk region and scooping up equipment and munitions are attacking from the rear....where the Russians were not expecting attacks.

 

[HeIsHere]

It is NATO which wants endless wars.

What is also happening here, if @JohnDB wants to go back and read history, when the Brits, during the Crimean War, had the idea to surround Russia so it did not have access to the Mediterranean and Black Sea thereby wrecking havoc on its economy and making it a third rate country.

This plan had resurgence in 1997 and Americans wanted to maintain their hegemony decided to expand NATO and push Ukraine to be a member of NATO.

This was Putin's fundamental red line!

This is not really about Ukraine and Russia, it is in reality about the USA lasts gasp to maintain and preserve its world empire status and their bad foreign policy which keeps killing a lot of people.

Why would Russia trust the NATO/USA when they want to bring Ukraine into NATO, do people remember it was the USA who first placed medium-range ballistic nuclear missiles at bases in Turkey in 1962.

And I will agree these are forever wars which are great for Raytheon and Black Rock.

People trying to understand this conflict through some nationalistic lens will never really see the full and entire picture.

 

[SavedByBlood]

What is also happening here, if @JohnDB wants to go back and read history, when the Brits, during the Crimean War, had the idea to surround Russia so it did not have access to the Mediterranean and Black Sea thereby wrecking havoc on its economy and making it a third rate country.

This plan had resurgence in 1997 and Americans wanted to maintain their hegemony decided to expand NATO and push Ukraine to be a member of NATO.

This was Putin's fundamental red line!

This is not really about Ukraine and Russia, it is in reality about the USA lasts gasp to maintain and preserve its world empire status and their bad foreign policy which keeps killing a lot of people.

Why would Russia trust the NATO/USA when they want to bring Ukraine into NATO, do people remember it was the USA who first placed medium-range ballistic nuclear missiles at bases in Turkey in 1962.

And I will agree these are forever wars which are great for Raytheon and Black Rock.

People trying to understand this conflict through some nationalistic lens will never really see the full and entire picture.

Here is a list of known wars the U.S. has been involved in since WW2:
1.Korea: 1950-1953
2.Vietnam: 1964-1975
3.Laotian: 1959-1975. I didn't even know about that one
4.Permesta: 1958-1961
5.Lebanon Crisis: 1961
6.Bay of Pigs Invasion: 1961
7.Dominican Civil War: 1965-1966
8.Korean DMZ Conflict: 1966-1969
9.Cambodian Civil War: 1967-1975
10.Multinational Intervention in Lebanon: 1982-1984
11.U.S. Invasion of Grenada: 1983
12.Bombing of Libya: 1986
13.Tanker War(Iran-Iraq War where U.S. supplied both sides with weapons: 1987-1988
14.Panama Invasion: 1989-1990
15.Gulf War(Desert Shield/Storm: 1990-1991
16.Iraq No Fly Zone Enforcement: 1991-2003
17.U.S. Intervention in Somalia (Blackhawk Down Incident) 12 American soldiers dead: 1992-1995
18.Bosnian/Croatia War: 1992-1995
19.Intervention in Haiti: 1994-1995
20.Kosova War: 1998-1999
21.Afghanistan/Iraq: 2003-will still have troops over there.

List of Wars Soviet Union has been involved in since WW2
1.Korean War: 1953-1955
2.Vietnam War: 1955-1975
3.East German Uprising: 1953
4.Hungarian Revolution: 1956
5.Vlora Incident: 1961
6.Invasion of Czechoslovakia: 1968
7.Sino-Soviet Border Conflict: 1969
8.War of Attrition: 1969-1970
9.Angolan Civil War: 1975-1991
10.Ethiopia-Somalian War: 1977-1978
11.Soviet-Afghan War: 1979-1989

 

[HeIsHere]

Here is a list of known wars the U.S. has been involved in since WW2:
1.Korea: 1950-1953
2.Vietnam: 1964-1975
3.Laotian: 1959-1975. I didn't even know about that one
4.Permesta: 1958-1961
5.Lebanon Crisis: 1961
6.Bay of Pigs Invasion: 1961
7.Dominican Civil War: 1965-1966
8.Korean DMZ Conflict: 1966-1969
9.Cambodian Civil War: 1967-1975
10.Multinational Intervention in Lebanon: 1982-1984
11.U.S. Invasion of Grenada: 1983
12.Bombing of Libya: 1986
13.Tanker War(Iran-Iraq War where U.S. supplied both sides with weapons: 1987-1988
14.Panama Invasion: 1989-1990
15.Gulf War(Desert Shield/Storm: 1990-1991
16.Iraq No Fly Zone Enforcement: 1991-2003
17.U.S. Intervention in Somalia (Blackhawk Down Incident) 12 American soldiers dead: 1992-1995
18.Bosnian/Croatia War: 1992-1995
19.Intervention in Haiti: 1994-1995
20.Kosova War: 1998-1999
21.Afghanistan/Iraq: 2003-will still have troops over there.

List of Wars Soviet Union has been involved in since WW2
1.Korean War: 1953-1955
2.Vietnam War: 1955-1975
3.East German Uprising: 1953
4.Hungarian Revolution: 1956
5.Vlora Incident: 1961
6.Invasion of Czechoslovakia: 1968
7.Sino-Soviet Border Conflict: 1969
8.War of Attrition: 1969-1970
9.Angolan Civil War: 1975-1991
10.Ethiopia-Somalian War: 1977-1978
11.Soviet-Afghan War: 1979-1989

Thank you, I have been meaning to search this out for so long!!
History has shown us dying empires are very dangerous, I believe only two empires have fallen apart without creating major chaos and wars.

The USA is acting very irrationally right now and they are looking to provoke major wars.

 

[SavedByBlood]

Thank you, I have been meaning to search this out for so long!!
History has shown us dying empires are very dangerous, I believe only two empires have fallen apart without creating major chaos and wars.

The USA is acting very irrationally right now and they are looking to provoke major wars.

Your welcome. I'm weary of endless wars, having served and then having children and family serve. President Eisenhower warned us in his farewell address about the Military Industrial Complex and the dangers it puts the American people in. Washington is full of people that seem to believe military action should always be the first action.

Here is a HD version of Eisenhower's farewell address to the nation:

 

[JohnDB]

If ONLY it was the USA's fault.

Europe has forced the USA into the "World Police" position. (Due to its wealth) .

NATO is not an offensive force but defensive pact requiring expenditures by each member country (by percentage of economy) to enforce their own military and be able to coordinate with other member nations on self defense.

Most of Europe has failed to spend anything on their own defense instead used the money to placate their own populations and whined to America to fix every conflict endangering borders stemming from their financial abuses of their neighbors.

This conflict is NOT one of those situations. But the results are still disastrous.

Sure, the politics of foreign policy has been on a downhill slope since 1960's with wild swings of one poor policy after another leaving everyone on the world stage clueless as to what the USA is going to want next. Clinton was the worst of the lot with having no policy at all.

Obama, Trump, and Biden have done nothing they should have when in office to stop this mess. Neither has the EU AND THEY SHOULD HAVE. But the recent opening ceremonies at the Olympics has shown what the EU have concerned themselves with the most lately.

Europe has a LOT to worry about.

The Steppes and mining resources are what's at stake. Nobody is attacking Russia but they do seem to be attacking and colonizing every neighbor they can. Is Alaska in their sights?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Biblically speaking, how should we view this situation? It is multifaceted and this problem certainly didn't start in 2022 as the media says, but way before it.

Multiple things to consider:

- Russia had no real legitimate reason to attack in 2022 (I dont believe their justifications about nazis and mistreatment is good enough for this type of war to be started)
- Ukraine is led by a globalist LGBT promoting EU puppet
- Russia is for the more 'traditional values' which is good
- Russia complains about how their people were treated poorly in east Ukrainebut my question is; if they dont like it, leave? Russia is across the border.
- Ukraine has a right to defend its land and its people
- Both nations have low fertility rates and old populations, this war will further destroy their demographics with young men dying, a ton of young men a ton of young women fleeing as well to party in other countries instead.

What are we to think of this mess? Are we to not pick a side at all, pray for both sides and remain neutral? Are we to support Ukraine in defending its territories? Are we to support Russia cause its more of a conservative nation?

What do you believe, why do you believe it, what do you believe the scriptures teach on this topic?

My view is similar to how I always view these things: Both sides are wicked, the whole world lies in wickedness and the kingdom of God is not of this world, we should pray for both sides and pray for peace. Thats my view.

“When you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭13:7‬ ‭NIV‬‬


“You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of birth pains.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:6-8‬ ‭NIV‬‬

“When you hear of wars and uprisings, do not be frightened. These things must happen first, but the end will not come right away.””
‭‭Luke‬ ‭21:9‬ ‭NIV‬‬

I think war is just part of our fallen world it seems war has persisted always each generation

 

[SavedByBlood]

Thank you, I have been meaning to search this out for so long!!
History has shown us dying empires are very dangerous, I believe only two empires have fallen apart without creating major chaos and wars.

The USA is acting very irrationally right now and they are looking to provoke major wars.

The following link may also shed some light on why there is conflict presently with Ukraine/Russia.
https://direct.mit.edu/isec/article/40/4/7/12126/Deal-or-No-Deal-The-End-of-the-Cold-War-and-the-U

 

[Aaron56]

Google "Putin's holy war" to find out more about the religious spin put on the invasion of Ukraine.

Let me help: Helpful Link

NATO is not innocent. It is likely, with good evidence, that Western leaders formally agreed to NOT expand NATO territories eastward to wards Russia. Second Helpful Link

Using this map: Third Times a Charm any expansion after 1990 could/would have been seen as a violation of the spirit of the talks in the late 1980's and 1990.

To my point: THE PEOPLE are the ones caught in these political games and wars. And it is THE PEOPLE who are dying: both in Ukraine and Russia. Most of them (in Ukraine and Russia) only know what they are told.

 

[SavedByBlood]

Yes people are dying. That is why I’m against participation in foreign wars and proxy wars. Without U. S. Dollars this war would have been done and over. The pro war uniparty are the ones making this an extended war.
I am not without compassion for the fallen soldiers in this conflict.
This is the work of Satan.

 

[Aaron56]

Yes people are dying. That is why I’m against participation in foreign wars and proxy wars. Without U. S. Dollars this war would have been done and over. The pro war uniparty are the ones making this an extended war.
I am not without compassion for the fallen soldiers in this conflict.
This is the work of Satan.

I'm sure we agree on many points.

So many other believers have, as their core belief, a mix of Americanism and Christianity. It makes them unable to understand the times for failure to discern the Spirit.

We should, as people of God, always seek to understand a matter from the perspective of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[studier]

We should, as people of God, always seek to understand a matter from the perspective of our Lord Jesus Christ.

That's quite a task. Wouldn't it be something if we all were better at this...

 

[Eli1]

I had no idea that @Angela53510 was Ukrainian, so this makes her the authority here on anything Ukrainian.

Angela i have only one question for you.
Linguistically, how different are the dialects in your country? Is it pretty obvious? Less obvious? Or more or less the same everywhere you go.
Thank you.

 

[Eli1]

I’m surprised no one has mentioned the support from Kirill of the Russian Orthodox Church. Putin has been selling this war as a “holy war” to the Russian people since 2018 (-ish). With the support of Kirill (he’s like the Russian Orthodox Pope) Putin’s propaganda was given validity among the Russian people.

This is another layer of evil: murder in the name of God and Christ.

I mentioned this when the war started. The rest of the Orthodox Church community wrote letters to him to change this view but he didn't care.
He's a politician basically.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I had no idea that @Angela53510 was Ukrainian, so this makes her the authority here on anything Ukrainian.

Not necessarily. If a personal bias enters into the matter of objective truth, then everything gets skewed. The fact is that Ukraine was an integral part of the Soviet Union for about 70 years. All the past history therefore means nothing.

And since Ukraine failed to set up a defense alliance immediately after Crimea, they left the door open for Putin when everyone knew his ambitions. No one talks about Ukraine's responsibility to protect itself. And there is no question that this war is a proxy war in which Ukraine was not allowed to negotiate a deal (which is still true).

As to the Russian Orthodox position, it would appear that Patriarch Kirill regards Vladimir Putin as a Russian Orthodox adherent, and even awarded him with the Russian Church’s Order of St Alexander Nevsky. 'The Patriarch said that Putin was Russia’s “first truly Orthodox president not hiding his affiliation with the Orthodox Church”, who received communion and lived “a church life”.'
Putin honoured by Patriarch Kirill during service (churchtimes.co.uk)

 

[Eli1]

Not necessarily. If a personal bias enters into the matter of objective truth, then everything gets skewed. The fact is that Ukraine was an integral part of the Soviet Union for about 70 years. All the past history therefore means nothing.

And since Ukraine failed to set up a defense alliance immediately after Crimea, they left the door open for Putin when everyone knew his ambitions. No one talks about Ukraine's responsibility to protect itself. And there is no question that this war is a proxy war in which Ukraine was not allowed to negotiate a deal (which is still true).

As to the Russian Orthodox position, it would appear that Patriarch Kirill regards Vladimir Putin as a Russian Orthodox adherent, and even awarded him with the Russian Church’s Order of St Alexander Nevsky. 'The Patriarch said that Putin was Russia’s “first truly Orthodox president not hiding his affiliation with the Orthodox Church”, who received communion and lived “a church life”.'
Putin honoured by Patriarch Kirill during service (churchtimes.co.uk)

We all have a bit of a bias, but with good discussion we can understand each other.
I've seen many good points in this topic and many other topics here in the forum (or real life) where people talk over each other but if they didn't get so worked up, they'd see that they agree on a lot of things and they wouldn't argue endlessly.
I have been seeing on many salvation topics that people agree with each other but because they use confusing concepts or language, they keep arguing endlessly.
Anyway, the point is that since Angela is from Ukraine her bias is less compared to us who are not from Ukraine.
I can also tell you a lot of bias from the Kosovo area but i am self-aware of the bias.
So let's take things one step at a time.
I am first interested to know how many language dialects are in Ukraine. This is important because it's tied to many other aspects of the society.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The USA is acting very irrationally right now and they are looking to provoke major wars.

Exactly. The proper and sane thing to have done is for President Trump to have been in the White House (which was his right), who then invited President Putin for a sit-down meeting in a neutral location. The MSM would not have been allowed to watch what they said.

The purpose would have been to come to a mutual agreement to (1) end all hostilities between the two countries (including cyber warfare), (2) end all the useless sanctions against Russia, and (3) get Russia to sign an agreement to stop encroaching on the territory of any other country, particularly the former satellites of the Soviet Union [(or joining other countries in waging warfare (e.g. Syria)]. Also that (4) Russia would not involve China to conduct any warfare. Russia is more interested in building its economy, not going to war with the USA. And as long as Trump was president, Russia stayed away from Ukraine.

 

[Eli1]

For example we can start with this question to Angela.
Angela can you confirm if this map from Wikipedia is somewhat accurate? And what region are you from?



https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ethnolingusitic_map_of_ukraine.png