In other words, you finally agree that no Apples are good; only the Orange alone is good?
What Changed?
- Thread starter BillyBob
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In other words, you finally agree that no Apples are good; only the Orange alone is good?
For someone who who was at first reluctant to respond to this thread, I see that you have once again hijacked a topic to further promote you bruised apple theology. Great move on your part!
For someone who who was at first reluctant to respond to this thread, I see that you have once again hijacked a topic to further promote you bruised apple theology. Great move on your part!
He's also a great person to have at a party.
When the party is quiet then Call Paul!
But why do people fear death? Don't you know that the fear of death itself is a moral-spiritual problem? Have you never read that perfect love drives away all fear (1Jn 4:18)? And moreover, the reason people fear death is because they know they are GUILTY of sin! Your answer does not solve man's spiritual problem. In fact, it makes it worse; for no one comes into this world loving God. And whoever doesn't love Him doesn't know Him (1Jn 4:8). And how can anyone truly trust anyone he doesn't know? Man is inherently wicked -- from the crown of his head to the bottom of the soles of his feet. There is no spiritual soundness in man.
God is good. God made us in His image, and declared us very good. For you to argue that we cannot compare our goodness to God's goodness because there is no overlap between deity and humanity is stupid. Jesus is an obvious overlap between deity and humanity. Man being created in God's image and very good, obviously implies an overlap between deity and mankind in degrees of goodness.
You are using the fallacy of "special pleading" to escape accepting these biblical truths, because they do damage to the idol of your theological systematic.
Job was rebuked by God for darkening counsel without knowledge. You cannot reasonably assume that every word from Job's mouth was Holy Spirit inspired truth.
You have a cynical theology that despises mankind who is made in God's image. You seem to refuse to see anything of that divine image and goodness in anyone but yourself and your self-appointed unconditionally elected clique. God made man in His image and very good. Man did not become, and is not totally depraved. The Bible is written in human language for humans to understand. In common parlance "Not one is good" does not mean "Not one contains any good". It is only in the ivory Calvinist tower you are ensconced in that "Not one is good" means "Not one contains any good."
Normal people don't ascribe to words and phrases the same meanings as your theology does.
Are you going to make some attempt at explaining why my "no good apples but one" analogy does not adequately account for the meaning of Jesus words in a way that does not entail total depravity? Or are you settling for merely throwing in the logical fallacies of appeal to the stone and loaded labelling ?For someone who who was at first reluctant to respond to this thread, I see that you have once again hijacked a topic to further promote you bruised apple theology. Great move on your part!
You are obviously not paying attention. Man comes into the world as a good apple. He gets initially bruised when impacted by the world and the devil.
If man's nature is good then explain to us why is it that man cannot not sin, and how did the world (filled with good apples) become evil (implied by your statement above)?
I don't despise mankind. But God despises sinners (a subject for another time). Mankind became so broken after the Fall that God had to condescend to become one of us in order to fix us, and it cost him an exceedingly high price.
The human heart is desperately sick and deceitful above all things -- so much so that no one can truly understand it (Jer 17:9). But you have such a high view of yourself and your fellow man -- you have it all figured out, don't you? If we're such good apples, explain to me how the thoughts and intentions of the hearts of man became evil continually (Gen 6:5) -- to the point where God exterminated virtually all men.
Oh but I can whenever a word that he spoke harmonizes with the rest of God's Word. Show me how Job 14, etc. contradict other portions of scripture.
I have explained it many times. Jesus clearly said that no human being on the planet is good. And this immediately implies that all human beings are evil. In the bible there is no middle ground between Good and Evil or Good and Bad or Good and Wicked. (The operative phrase here is "in the bible".) And to prove this, all we have to do is turn to all the texts in the gospels wherein Jesus referred to his contemporaries as being "this evil generation". He never called his fellow Jews "good"