It says, "although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful" (Ro 1:21). It doesn't say, "although they knew about God...". So, you may want to bring in concepts that relate to our intimate personal relationship with the Lord who lives in our brought-to-life new hearts to distinguish between the saved and the lost, but that does not address the issue at hand.
That's what I said. But I added that when we fail to walk in the Spirit, and as a result end up gratifying the flesh, we are not doing anything that is materially different than those who knew God but refused to worship Him as God as described in Romans 1. You don't think every Christian always walks in the Spirit do you? And you don't think failing to walk in the Spirit makes a saved person lost, do you? "If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit." (Ga 5:25)
"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance." (2 Pe 3:9)
Reformed theology creates a false paradigm concerning repentance. It argues against the plain language of Scripture that God wants everyone to come to repentance. He does not squish sinners like bugs but allows them to keep on sinning in order that some may repent and be saved by Him. And it is clear that no one can repent and go to Jesus unless God the Father draws him. So to declare that God wants no one to perish and wants everyone to come to repentance, but that He does not draw them all to Jesus or that He makes it impossible for some people to accept His offer (thereby condemning them to eternal death) is horrible theology.
My experience is that Reformed people cannot be convinced they are wrong on this issue because it is the issue that defines them. Without God reaching down and flipping a switch in people to allow (and irresistably cause) them to believe there would be no Reformed theology. But given that this is such a crucial point of doctrine, it would seem that they would have some (substantial) Scriptural backing for this crucial point. So maybe you can show us where the Bible says a person cannot respond positively to God without God first changing them into a believing person.
This is so tiresome, reading individuals on these threads, basing their Theology on this one verse:
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some count slackness; but is longsuffering to you-ward, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Who are the "ALL" in this verse? It is NOT everyone in the world.
First of all, Peter is writing to believers and not the world at large.
Secondly, Peter is explaining, to believers, why it might seem the Lord is "slack" in His return.
Thirdly, the primary reason given is, that time is being given to ensure that all of the elected ones come into the arc of safety before His return.
It is just that simple. Explained within the context.
Perhaps this might be of help.
John Gill on this verse:
but is longsuffering to us-ward: not to all the individuals of human nature, for the persons intended by us are manifestly distinguished from "some men" in the text, and from scoffers, mocking at the promise of Christ's coming, in the context, 2Pe_3:3; and are expressly called beloved, 2Pe_3:1; and God's longsuffering towards them is their salvation, 2Pe_3:15, nor is it true of all men, that God is not willing that any of them should perish, and that everyone of them should come to repentance, since many of them do perish in their sins, and do not come to repentance, which would not be the case, if his determining will was otherwise; besides, a society or company of men are designed, to which the apostle himself belonged, and of which he was a part; and who are described, in his epistles, as the elect of God, called out of darkness, into marvellous light, and having obtained like precious faith with the apostles; and must be understood either of God's elect among the Jews, for Peter was a Jew, and they were Jews he wrote to; and then the sense is, that the delay of Christ's coming is not owing to any slackness in him, but to his longsuffering to his elect among the Jews, being unwilling that any of that number among them should perish, but that all of them repent of their sins, and believe in him; and therefore he waits till their conversion is over, when a nation shall be born at once, and they that have pierced him look on him and mourn, and so all Israel shall be saved; or rather of the elect in general, whether among Jews or Gentiles, upon whom the Lord waits to be gracious, and whose longsuffering issues in their conversion and salvation. And upon account of these the Lord stays his coming till their number is complete in the effectual calling; and for their sakes he is longsuffering to others, and bears with a wicked world, with the idolatry, superstition, heresy, profaneness, and impiety, with which it abounds; but when the last man that belongs to that number is called, he will quickly descend in flames of fire, and burn the world, and the wicked in it, and take his chosen ones to himself. The Alexandrian copy reads, "for you", or your sakes; and so the Vulgate Latin, Syriac, and Ethiopic versions. A passage somewhat like to this is met with in a book of the Jews (f), esteemed by them very ancient.
"God prolongs or defers his anger with men; and one day, which is a thousand years, is fixed, besides the seventy years he delivered to David the king.--And he does not judge man by his evil works which he continually does, for if so, the world would not stand; but the holy blessed God defers his anger with the righteous, and the wicked, that they may return, by perfect repentance, and be established in this world, and in the world to come.''
And it is an observation of theirs (g), that when God is said to be "longsuffering", it is not written ארך אף, but ארך אפים, intimating, that he is longsuffering both to the righteous and the wicked; but then he bears with the latter, for the sake of the former: compare with this passage Rev_6:9;
not willing that any should perish; not any of the us, whom he has loved with an everlasting love, whom he has chosen in his Son, and given to him, and for whom he has died, and who are brought to believe in him. These, though they were lost in Adam, did not perish; and though in their own apprehensions, when awakened and convinced, are ready to perish; and though their peace, joy, and comfort, may perish for a while, and they may fear a final and total perishing; yet they shall never perish as others do, or be punished with everlasting destruction: and that this is the will of God, appears by his choice of them to salvation; by the provisions of grace for them in an everlasting covenant; by the security of their persons in the hands of Christ; by sending his Son to obtain salvation for them, and his Spirit to apply it to them; and by his keeping them by his power, through faith, unto salvation.
But that all should come to repentance; not legal, but evangelical, without which all must perish; and which all God's elect stand in need of, as well as others, being equally sinners; and which they cannot come to of themselves, and therefore he not only calls them to it, in his word, and by his spirit and grace, but bestows it upon them; he has exalted Christ at his own right hand, to give it to them; and repentance is a grant from him, a free gift of his grace; and the Spirit is sent down into their hearts to work it in them, to take away the stony heart, and give an heart of flesh; without which, whatever time and space may be given, or means afforded, even the most awful judgments, the greatest mercies, and the most powerful ministry, will be of no avail.
1
