Does anyone know of....
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Why ask me? You don't believe what I say... you don't even understand what I am saying though it is Biblical... you reject what the Bible actually teaches in favour of your philosophical gobbledygook/traditions of man... you don't believe you are in error even though God knows who are His. You seem to have a problem with that also.
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People believe what they want to believe for they like to hear it that way.
No person would want to believe they were predestined to damnation.
And people that believe they were predestined to salvation would not know on their own but by believing the Bible is true going by the words of it so how would a person believe they were predestined to damnation that does believe the Bible is true.
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
Also predestination is not true for God wants all people to be saved.
Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Luk 11:50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation.
God calls things that have not happened yet as though they already happened for if it is a plan of God to happen in the future it is the same as if it happened in the beginning for it will surely come to pass with no hindrance.
Predestined means God had the plan to give mankind salvation in the future so it is the same as if they have salvation in the beginning and this salvation is to whomever wants it.
But people believe what they want to believe and in this case they enjoy sin believing they cannot fall, and to have a life where they do not have to put so much effort in to it, and a no pressure lifestyle.
That is how they want to hear it.
2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
No person would want to believe they were predestined to damnation.
And people that believe they were predestined to salvation would not know on their own but by believing the Bible is true going by the words of it so how would a person believe they were predestined to damnation that does believe the Bible is true.
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
Also predestination is not true for God wants all people to be saved.
Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Luk 11:50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation.
God calls things that have not happened yet as though they already happened for if it is a plan of God to happen in the future it is the same as if it happened in the beginning for it will surely come to pass with no hindrance.
Predestined means God had the plan to give mankind salvation in the future so it is the same as if they have salvation in the beginning and this salvation is to whomever wants it.
But people believe what they want to believe and in this case they enjoy sin believing they cannot fall, and to have a life where they do not have to put so much effort in to it, and a no pressure lifestyle.
That is how they want to hear it.
2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Of course, (being facetious) people are not able to respond or seek due to their "fallen nature" (as described by Augustine of course) so only the elect will do this "dragged/drawn by God" and because they are the elect they only receive the gift of salvation as was predetermined.
The logical and consistent Augustinian/Calvinist however will concede to this as being true.
The more I have studied this Augustinian/Calvinist system it becomes obvious it only works as a package deal, even though it is not grounded in reality.
The logical and consistent Augustinian/Calvinist however will concede to this as being true.
The more I have studied this Augustinian/Calvinist system it becomes obvious it only works as a package deal, even though it is not grounded in reality.
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Come on now. You know actually what I am talking about when I say "few".
Matthew 7:13-14
New King James Version
13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 [a]Because narrow is the gate and [b]difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
Matthew 22:14-22
New International Version
14 “For many are invited, but few are chosen.”
You are certainly aware of these verses. Dissimulate much?
It will be even harder to count those who you believe God has "predestined to Hell".
Matthew 7:13-14
New King James Version
13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 [a]Because narrow is the gate and [b]difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
Matthew 22:14-22
New International Version
14 “For many are invited, but few are chosen.”
You are certainly aware of these verses. Dissimulate much?
It will be even harder to count those who you believe God has "predestined to Hell".
You are quick on assumption and slow on information. Just because someone doesn't understand the outworking of salvation doesn't mean they are not saved. There is no requirement to understand salvation, but simply believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
If you didn't have CDS, you could learn a thing or two.
If you didn't have CDS, you could learn a thing or two.
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From Acts 17:26-28
Acts 17:26-27 ~ From one man He made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and He determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their lands. God intended that they would seek Him and perhaps reach out for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us.
Jeremiah 29:13-14a You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. I will be found by you, declares the LORD.
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Another fellow Calvinist of yours states...
"Since men are blind to the worth of Christ, a miracle is needed in order for them to come to see and believe. Paul compares this miracle with the first day of creation when God said, “Let there be light” (Piper, Five Points, 34).
NO scripture does not state that!!!
it is those who chose to not believe who have had their minds blinded.
But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto
For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness*, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
@ Cor 4:4
Paul writes that those who are perishing “do not believe, lest the light of the gospel … should shine upon them.” Paul does not write that they do not believe because they cannot believe, or because the god of this age is preventing them from doing so.
No, Paul says they do not believe, because they do not want the light of the gospel to shine into their lives.
It is most important to not read into the text a presupposition.
"Since men are blind to the worth of Christ, a miracle is needed in order for them to come to see and believe. Paul compares this miracle with the first day of creation when God said, “Let there be light” (Piper, Five Points, 34).
NO scripture does not state that!!!
it is those who chose to not believe who have had their minds blinded.
But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto
For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness*, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
@ Cor 4:4
Paul writes that those who are perishing “do not believe, lest the light of the gospel … should shine upon them.” Paul does not write that they do not believe because they cannot believe, or because the god of this age is preventing them from doing so.
No, Paul says they do not believe, because they do not want the light of the gospel to shine into their lives.
It is most important to not read into the text a presupposition.
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Debate over........ Brian Wagner lays it out perfectly..
The question is how much work can the innate power of the Word do on its own, in confronting the unregenerate mind and will, and without personal involvement of the Holy Spirit?
My view is that verses like Heb 4:12, “The Word of God is living and powerful… piercing… and is a discerner…” indicate that conviction can come directly from contact with the Word and without, theoretically speaking, the Holy Spirit doing “more”.
I also believe verses like Luke 8:12 and Rom 10:17 indicate that the innate power of the Word, apart from, theoretically speaking, the personal involvement of the Holy Spirit, can enable an unregenerate heart to express faith.
Of course, I believe the Holy Spirit is omnipresent, therefore He sees every thing that is happening resulting from the Word’s innate power, and He probably speaks His own words of conviction as well before faith comes to fullness.
But I do think the Scripture is enough to bring a person to saving faith.
The Holy Spirit then, seeing the true faith commitment to Christ, causes the new birth to take place.
This is the correct and only understanding, Calvinism/Augustinianism is pure eisegesis.
The question is how much work can the innate power of the Word do on its own, in confronting the unregenerate mind and will, and without personal involvement of the Holy Spirit?
My view is that verses like Heb 4:12, “The Word of God is living and powerful… piercing… and is a discerner…” indicate that conviction can come directly from contact with the Word and without, theoretically speaking, the Holy Spirit doing “more”.
I also believe verses like Luke 8:12 and Rom 10:17 indicate that the innate power of the Word, apart from, theoretically speaking, the personal involvement of the Holy Spirit, can enable an unregenerate heart to express faith.
Of course, I believe the Holy Spirit is omnipresent, therefore He sees every thing that is happening resulting from the Word’s innate power, and He probably speaks His own words of conviction as well before faith comes to fullness.
But I do think the Scripture is enough to bring a person to saving faith.
The Holy Spirit then, seeing the true faith commitment to Christ, causes the new birth to take place.
This is the correct and only understanding, Calvinism/Augustinianism is pure eisegesis.
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First, I'm not a Calvinist. You're insistence that I am is bearing false witness and evidence of CDS.
Second, Paul says the people are blinded, otherwise the light of God would shine in their hearts. He goes on to say that God did shine light into his heart and He believed. The same was true for those he is writing to.
The reference to creation is intentional. Just as God created light, He also is responsible for causing the light to shine in their hearts. No one believes that God didn't make the light. Why do you believe He didn't make the light shine in Paul's heart when Paul clearly says He did?A
Acts 17:26-27 ~ From one man He hey should inhabit the whole earth; and He determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their lands. God intended that they would seek Him and perhaps reach out for Him and find Him, though He is not eremiah 29:13-14a You will seek n you search for Me w
Second, Paul says the people are blinded, otherwise the light of God would shine in their hearts. He goes on to say that God did shine light into his heart and He believed. The same was true for those he is writing to.
The reference to creation is intentional. Just as God created light, He also is responsible for causing the light to shine in their hearts. No one believes that God didn't make the light. Why do you believe He didn't make the light shine in Paul's heart when Paul clearly says He did?A
Acts 17:26-27 ~ From one man He hey should inhabit the whole earth; and He determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their lands. God intended that they would seek Him and perhaps reach out for Him and find Him, though He is not eremiah 29:13-14a You will seek n you search for Me w
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Yes, you are right John Calvin did not teach saving faith was a gift, he understood Ephesians correctly I guess his hours studying Greek had some value.
So let's have a new what to summarize this set of doctrines/tenets "Cameron's Way" and we can have "HeIsHere's CDS" way.
Anyone moving on for now to the News Section... again there is no scripture that supports limited atonement, total depravity, regeneration before salvation etc., etc.,
So let's have a new what to summarize this set of doctrines/tenets "Cameron's Way" and we can have "HeIsHere's CDS" way.
Anyone moving on for now to the News Section... again there is no scripture that supports limited atonement, total depravity, regeneration before salvation etc., etc.,
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