My God, My God. Why have you forsaken me?

[Blade]

Lets see it was a fulfillment of what was written in Psa. "And he had the sin of the world of all that was and would be on Him and how does GOD look at sin? Yet he himself bore our sicknesses, and he carried our pains but we in turn regarded him stricken, struck down by God, and afflicted. But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed. All of us like sheep have gone astray, We have turned, each one, to his own way; But the LORD has caused the wickedness of us all [our sin, our injustice, our wrongdoing] To fall on Him [instead of us]." this pleased God

The more you search on this you find most do not know nor understand what this cost Him. As if it was nothing.. just hop on down .. die get raised come back as if nothing happened. What would happen to you or me if we didn't know Him? Amp that by every one that has ever been or ever will be He alone the only one that could He .. oh.. what happened to Him not one believer will ever have to experience. Read the OT how God treated sin. Makes no sense huh. All we know is .. someone always wants something. We do not know anyone like this.. there has to be a catch yet none. Then think.. every being in heaven every angel does not understand this what we have seen and been through. We have what Abraham did with his son.. God did with His. Then the song by Brandon Lake comes to mind

"All my words fall short I got nothing new how could I express all my gratitude? I could sing these songs as I often do But every song must end and You never do So I throw up my hands And praise You again and again 'Cause all that I have is a hallelujah Hallelujah And I know it's not much But I've nothing else fit for a King Except for a heart singing hallelujah Hallelujah"

 

[tourist]

Jesus said "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me", because God forsook Him. I do not understand why so many shy away from this, not why they would, but with open eye and in truth how they could. Do you not understand God's view on our sin? He is just, ALL sin must be punished, ALL sin. This is another example of how our God is great, worthy, and love one a level we can't fathom. Jesus, God in the flesh, perfect, born of the Spirit NOT Adam/flesh, fully God and fully man, completely obedient to His Fathers will, was the perfect lamb God said He'd provide to Abraham in Genesis. He came and taught us the truth, and we took Him and just like the "The wicked tenants" parable when He sent His Son, and we thought we'd kill Him and take the inheritance for ourselves. We took the ONLY innocent man in history and convicted Him then executed Him in the worst way we could.
Whipped, beaten, spit on, insulted, humiliated, then nails driven through His arms, to be hung to die. But while this was a huge part of us understanding the magnitude of the price paid, the blood shed is undeniable, this isn't it. This was just the flesh/man side. The true price paid was the full force of Gods wrath poured out on Jesus head. THIS WAS THE WHOLE PRICE PAID!!!! Jesus was forsaken on that cross so we could justly be given His perfect righteousness. This IS the punishment for our sin that He took for us.

I really don't like it when people deny this as if it would make God this horrible monster if it was true, and no loving God would ever do this to His Son. THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT AND WHAT MAKES IT SUCH A UNIQUE EXAMPLE OF HOW GOD LOVES US. If He didn't put your punishment on Jesus then you still have it coming. I also don't like the way most think about it either, as if Jesus is amazing for laying His life down, but never think about how crazy hard it was for the Father to do this to His own Son for our sakes. It's so unbelievable on EVERY level, and we should rob it of any of this. I understand why it's hard to swallow this teaching, but when you get down to the truth, this is what it is, there wasn't JUST a blood price paid that day, the Spiritual price was also paid, please don't act as if this half is "too much", it's denying Him glory.

Outstanding post, one which I fully agree with.

 

[SomeDisciple]

Good point.

I've got another one for you, I just figured out.

The Hebrew in Psalm 22 might not be best rendered in English as "forsaken" either. It's the same word used in Genesis 2 to say that a man shall "leave" his mother and father and be joined to his wife. In English "Forsake" is a "screw you; bye" abandonment of something or someone; but in the context of Genesis 2, it obviously doesn't carry that kind of force- people generally don't treat their parents that way.

It's also used in Ex 19 for "leaving" grapes in your vinyard for the poor- IOW "leave for a purpose".... Same as the Aramaic.

 

[SomeDisciple]

Finally, at verses 22-25 David praises the Lord. Just as God did not turn away from David in his distress, neither did He turn away from His own begotten Son.

Amen.

You who fear the LORD, praise Him!
All descendants of Jacob, honor Him!
All offspring of Israel, revere Him!
For He has not despised or detested
the torment of the afflicted.
He has not hidden His face from him,
but has attended to his cry for help.

 

[John146]

Hi @John146

So, when were the sins place on Jesus? Was it as they drove the first spike through his palm? Was it when they lifted up the cross beam onto the upright? Was it when he cried out, "It is finished"?

As I posted, I believe it was when darkness covered the face of the earth, 12pm. Darkness is always associated with sin and godlessness.

 

[Nehemiah6]

So, when were the sins place on Jesus? Was it as they drove the first spike through his palm? Was it when they lifted up the cross beam onto the upright? Was it when he cried out, "It is finished"?

Christ was the Lamb of God from before the foundation of the world. The prophecies of the crucifixion of Christ were record from at least 1000 BC. But there is no need to ask such irreverent questions.

 

[posthuman]

Hi believers,

For many years I wondered about these words that Jesus spoke. Why would God forsake His Son for doing exactly what he was supposed to do. I mean the old covenant is clear that Jesus had to die for our sin. So, he did. He brought glory to the Father through his steadfast love and obedience to all that his Father asked of him. Why would God forsake him for that?

However, I have since come to an understanding that answers my ponderings. God did not forsake His Son. Jesus referred to himself as Rabbi. He said at one time, "You call me Rabbi and so it is." A Rabbi is a Jewish teacher. Jesus was a Jewish teacher to Israel. In the early beginning of his ministry in a gathering of Jewish believers in Nazareth, he read and proclaimed the words of the prophet Isaiah. He then told the people in attendance that this prophecy was being fulfilled in their very hearing. So, Jesus opened his ministry with likely the most powerful and accurate description of all that Messiah was supposed to do. Then he went out and did it.

As the end of his ministry, he also closed with one of the most powerful words of the Scriptures about how his death was going to happen. That passage begins, My God, my God. Why have you forsaken me?

So, he began his ministry telling everyone from the Scriptures all that Messiah was going to do as he lived among us. He closed his ministry telling everyone from the Scriptures that they were witnessing the very death that had been prophesied by Isaiah, also. It's a practice that is referred to as 'remez'. Remez is a technique of using part of a Scripture passage to imply the fuller meaning of a teaching.

In Israel, in the days of Jesus, the Scriptures did not have chapter and verses as we have today to easily locate a passage that a preacher might be teaching on. In our day, our teachers just say, "turn in your bibles to the book of Acts chapter 3 vs 12- 18." Everyone opens their copy of the Scriptures to the book of Acts chapter 3 and verse 12. But in Jesus day there was no such way to identify where a teaching might be coming from in the Scriptures. So, it was a very common practice for the teacher to begin by quoting a particular passage and everyone would know where that passage was and be able to see where the teaching was in the Scriptures. This is what Jesus was doing for those chief priests and scribes and pharisees that were hanging around as he was dying for their sin. He was telling them as their Rabbi, "Go look and find this passage and read what it says about this death that you are right now in your life witnessing before your very eyes. In their very hearing would be how Jesus would have put it

So, I don't believe that God did forsake His Son. But I do believe that God caused to be written some hundreds of years before the event, those words found in psalm 22. I further believe that just as Jesus' purpose in quoting the words of Isaiah to that fellowship of Jewish believers in Nazareth when he began his ministry as a testimony to them to watch and see, that he also spoke the words of this psalm telling them to watch and see.

God bless you all,
Ted

Psalm 22 is a duet.

some of it is Israel, some of it is The Son.

Israel believes herself to be forsaken, but she is not.

 

[tedincarolina]

Christ was the Lamb of God from before the foundation of the world. The prophecies of the crucifixion of Christ were record from at least 1000 BC. But there is no need to ask such irreverent questions.

Hey @Nehemiah6

I'm sorry if I offended. Honestly though, I seem to be dense, but I'm not sure what you're saying in that post in response to the question on the table. The statement was made that the Christ took on all our sin when he died. I don't deny that. I believe that is exactly what the word of God tells us. But since that's the reason that God would have forsaken His Son, I'm just asking when he actually took all that sin upon him. Did that sin fall upon him at the moment that he spoke those words to his Father? Had he been carrying it for some time before that? Like when he was flogged? And of course, the follow up question is when was it lifted? Immediately upon his death? Did he carry that down to Hades and somehow dispense with it?

My position is that God never forsook His Son for doing exactly what he was supposed to be doing for all of mankind. Rather it was a passage that God carefully planted in His testimony to us some 700 years before the event. God's word declares that we shall know the true and living God in that what He says will come to pass. That any prophet who were to say something was the word of God and it turned out not to happen... should be killed. Eeeek!

God used and protected all of His prophecies just as He did the one that Isaiah wrote about the working of the suffering servant. He challenged Israel in this if they ever questioned whether God exists or is not this God of Israel It was God who opened that book to the prophet Isaiah and read all about what His Christ would be doing while with us. And His Christ did all that he was supposed to do. But after beginning his ministry with unarguably the greatest prophecy of 'how' the Messiah would live and the things that he would do, nobody gave a better diagram than Isaiah, according to Luke's testimony. Luke records for us this first revealing of his ministry shortly after he had left the wilderness. It says that Jesus had the been teaching and immediately tells of this particular one. Luke writes that in his testimony to us of the things that he had carefully studied and recorded for us. Well, for Theophilus. This is how the whole world has since been introduced to the life of Jesus' ministry. That he went into a synagogue and for some reason was given the honor of reading the Scriptures and immediately turned to the writings of Isaiah and read what he claims Jesus read from one pretty straight line of words of the script as far as we can tell. It doesn't indicate that he had to further unroll the scroll or that he somehow moved about in his reading of Isaiah's writing. So, I'm pretty confident that in the Torah at the time of Jesus beginning his ministry, those words were in Isaiah's writings to us.

Then he closes out his ministry, dying on the cross for our sin, and cries out a remez. A fairly normal and customary method used by Rabbis when teaching their students. He spoke the first words of a passage of the Scripture that God had carefully set in David's mind to write some 700 years earlier. And in that passage we find several of the events that were happening right before the very eyes of the chief elders, scribes, teachers, Pharisees or whatever of the Jewish leaders standing around that spot of the earth where he was being crucified. And of course, he knew that they wouldn't connect it, but he knew that the coming believers would. Jesus closed out his ministry in the exact same way that he began his ministry. Proclaiming to all who would listen that he was the Messiah. The Christ of God, the Father.

Now, did he carry all of our sins into the grave? Sure he did. But did God forsake him? Perhaps for a moment. Certainly, no longer than three days and three nights. When he became the first raised up from the dead to eternal life. According to the account of John writing to us his revelatory prophetic visions. The firstborn from the dead.


John, To the seven churches in the province of Asia: Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne, and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.


That's who Jesus is, according to John's written testimony. I mean, if Jesus' words are true and the words he spoke were not his own, but were given him by the Father, then when Jesus said those words, it was God telling him, "Tell them this. My God, My God. Why have you forsaken me." And Jesus does exactly what the Father tells him. And God would have told him to say that for the purpose of drawing the teachers and scribes settled around His Son at the cross of his death to that place in the Scriptures for them to later confirm that what they witnessed was all prophesied to have happened hundreds of years ago. And I believe that's why Jesus said those words. So that you and I today could be assured that Jesus is the Messiah. The Annointed one of the Father. Who came to take away the sin of the world.

God told Israel to test Him through the words of His prophecies and then planted them throughout His testimony to us that we could know today that Jesus is the one we were/are to be looking for. Praise God for His great wisdom and power and majesty and love. For who has heard our cry. Hopefully those who have tested the prophecies of God's word.

God bless you all,
Ted

 

[Nehemiah6]

My position is that God never forsook His Son for doing exactly what he was supposed to be doing for all of mankind.

Your position denies what Christ spoke Himself on the cross. That in itself is a red flag. If He said He was forsaken, then that is exactly what happened. And there is no need for idle curiosity about something none of us will fully comprehend. I already told you that Christ was the Lamb of God from BEFORE the foundation of the world. that should be sufficient.

 

[decipher]

I thought that Jesus death on the cross was substitutionary. We are all imperfect because we are sinners, and the result of sin is death. Jesus was born under the law of conscience (knowing good and evil) because of Adam and Eve, but never sinned. He was not supposed to die, but he allowed himself to die so that, in a sense, the Father owes him life. This life is given to those that are appointed by the Father and who believe and trust that Jesus' death took the place of our death due to our sins. Jesus was never literally filled with sin.

 

[bluto]

Your position denies what Christ spoke Himself on the cross. That in itself is a red flag. If He said He was forsaken, then that is exactly what happened. And there is no need for idle curiosity about something none of us will fully comprehend. I already told you that Christ was the Lamb of God from BEFORE the foundation of the world. that should be sufficient.

 

[bluto]

Can you please explain in what respect did God the Father forsake His Son on that cross? Forsaken is defined as "abandoned or deserted." I ask because I was taught in the early 1960's that God the Father cannot look at sin. One of the verses to support this view is 2 Corinthians 5:21, "He made Him who knew no sin to be son on our behalf that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." Notice the last four words, "of God in Him."

This means in a legal sense that God the Father 'TREATED" the SINLESS Christ as though He were a sinner. This was already planned when the Apostle John says at John 3:14, "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so MUST the Son of Man be lifted up. Also, this is backed up by Genesis 3:15, "I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel."

Now, Jesus Himself said at John 16:32-33, "Behold, an hour is coming and has already come, for you to be scattered each to his own home, and to leave Me alone; and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with Me." Vs33, "These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world."

There is another aspect or view regarding Jesus being forsaken. Could it be that Jesus is saying to His Father, "Why have you forsaken to the cross?" In other words, Jesus is absorbed in thought contemplating the possibility that maybe there could have been another way. The bottom line for me is that Jesus was not forsaken on that cross, He felt forsaken just like David at Psalm 22.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[studier]

So, I don't believe that God did forsake His Son

Both the Hebrew in Ps22 and the Greek word used there and in Matt27 and Mark15 mean to leave, to abandon, to forsake, basically to separate connection.

Both David in Ps22 and Jesus per Matt27 & Mark15 have fallen into and are suffering at the hands of the wicked. Thus, My God, My God why have you abandoned me? But Ps22 is Messianic and is obviously known to be highly prophetic.

The mindset was that God would never forsake the righteous to fall into the hands of the wicked (Ps37:25). Scripture like 2Chron12:5 and 15:2 say that God will abandon those who abandon Him.

The uniqueness of Ps22 as it applies to Jesus Christ is that He never abandoned God. This is where His carrying our sins applies.

Jesus is teaching, drawing minds to OC Scriptures, and using a Messianic Psalm to speak of Himself and what was taking place. This was not just for effect. He lived this form of abandonment in ways no one else ever has or ever will. There is not only lament in the Psalm, but also trust and praise. The Psalm ends with praise for a reason.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The answer is an emphatic NO. Let me first say from Isaiah 53:4, "Surely our griefs He Himself bore, and our sorrows He carried; Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken, Smitten of God, and afflicted."
Christ was clearly considered "accursed" in the eyes of humanity, particularly the Jewish nation, and yet He ever remained the holy Son with whom the Father was well pleased." (Mark 1:11, Matthew 3:17 and Luke 3:22.)

Regarding Psalm 22:1, "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me." Here, Jesus was merely quoting the first line of Psalm 22 to show the spectators that His crucifixion had been prophesied by David thousands of years earlier, and that He was, in fact the "suffering Servant" that had been promised by the Old Testament prophets.
What's interesting is the fact that David's immediate reason for writing them was to describe his own feelings of forsakenness while he was being hunted down and persecuted by King Saul. Note what he says in the last part of vs1, "Far from my deliverance are the words of my groaning."

David was complaining that God had left him and in his plea, vs10, he says, "Upon Thee I was cast from birth; Thou hast been my God from my mother's womb."
David continues to explain his plight when at vs12 many, "Strong bulls of Bashan have encircled me." Vs14, "I am poured out like water." Vs16, "For the dogs have surrounded me; A band of evildoers has encompassed me; They pierced my hands and feet." (sound familiar?)

Finally, at verses 22-25 David praises the Lord. Just as God did not turn away from David in his distress, neither did He turn away from His own begotten Son. I remember many, many years ago it was said that God cannot look upon sin.
2 Corinthians 5:21 was used to support that opinion. "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." What was not quoted was verse was 2 Corinthians 5:19, "namely, THAT GOD WAS IN CHRIST reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation."

Lastly, the following verse seals the deal that God the Father did not abandon or forsake His Son. The word of Jesus Christ Himself at John 16:32, "Behold, an hour is coming and has already come for you to be scattered each to his own home, and to leave Me alone; AND YET I AM NOT ALONE, BECAUSE THE FATHER IS WITH ME."

IN GOD THE SON, PS: Hope this helps!
bluto

“Lastly, the following verse seals the deal that God the Father did not abandon or forsake His Son”

of course not

“I and my Father are one.”
‭‭John‬ ‭10:30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:9‬ ‭

“Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭20:28‬ ‭

“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[montana123]

Jesus is God manifest in the flesh which He was conceived of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus is God and man and He felt the presence of the Spirit His whole life.

He knew He was going to the cross, and was glad to do it.

Joh 16:32 Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me.

The Father never forsook His Son, and there was no reason for Jesus is still sinless even when the sins of the world were laid upon Him.

I believe when the sins of the world were laid upon the man Christ Jesus that He felt what it feels like being separated from God where He always felt the presence of the Spirit.

But He knew the Father did not forsake Him for that was His mission, and He said in to thy hands Father I commend my spirit which all spirits of people go back to God who gave them.

If God actually forsook Him then how is He the Savior.

And God laid down His life for the world, and purchased the Church with His own blood, and He is not going to forsake His own human body that is sinless.

I believe it was only how the man Christ Jesus felt but He knew the Father did not forsake Him.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The Father never forsook His Son...

Really? You are calling Christ a liar?

 

[Nehemiah6]

If God actually forsook Him then how is He the Savior.

This shows that you have no clue about this. He is the Savior PRECISELY BECAUSE the Father forsook the Son.

 

[bluto]

This shows that you have no clue about this. He is the Savior PRECISELY BECAUSE the Father forsook the Son.

This does not make any sense. Luke 2:11, "for today in the city of David there has been born for you a SAVIOR, who is Christ the Lord." So, here's the question, was not Jesus Christ the Savior before the Father forsook Him on that cross? Of course this is "assuming" one believes the Father "forsook, abandoned, or deserted His Son on that cross. I don't believe He did and I explained why.

One other point I would like to make. You made the statement, "Was Jesus lying?" Well, was Jesus lying when He said at John 16:32, "Behold, an hour is coming, and has already come, for you to be scattered, each to his own home, and to leave Me alone; and yet I am not alone, because (or why), the Father is with Me." And the Apostle Paul at 2 Corinthians 5:21 said, "the righteousness of God in Him, referring to the cross.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[Nehemiah6]

So, here's the question, was not Jesus Christ the Savior before the Father forsook Him on that cross?

Yes Jesus was indeed the Savior from BEFORE the foundation of the world. But in order to actually provide salvation He "became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross". That death was by crucifixion, which meant that Christ had to suffer in His body, and soul, and spirit in order to pay the full penalty for our sins (Isaiah 53 and many other passages).

An important part of that suffering was the experience the Second Death in His soul. "thou wilt make His soul an offering for sin". The Second Death is eternal separation from God in the Lake of Fire. But because Christ is the Lamb of God, the Father forsook Him for those three dark hours. That was the equivalent of an eternity in Hell for all sinners. No man could view the agony of Christ at this time so darkness at noon was over all the earth until 3:00 p.m.

That was a genuine forsaking so that He would pay the penalty for all mankind. And since He paid the penalty in full, He cried "It is Finished". And it is the finished work of redemption that makes Him the Savior who offers eternal life. Without this indescribable suffering, no man could be saved.

 

[cv5]

Psalm 22 is a prophecy that was fulfilled. God did forsake his son. Why? Because, at that moment, Christ became sin for us. God’s eyes are too holy to behold sin.

Habakuk 1:13 Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity: wherefore lookest thou upon them that deal treacherously, and holdest thy tongue when the wicked devoureth the man that is more righteous than he?

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

That would be by FAR the most common interpretation. And.....its completely wrong. Which again in extremely common today.

The CORRECT interpretation is that Jesus is literally SINGING the well known song of Psalm 22 "the hind (stag) of the morning".

And what He is actually doing......is prophesying the 70th week of Daniel great tribulation that He knows is coming for Israel, now
that they have rejected His Kingship.

In other words, Jesus is reciting what ISRAEL WILL SAY when they are about to be utterly destroyed by the anti-christ.

And BTW, it was Jesus Who by an act of His Own free will "died" aka "separated" from the Father.
Not vice versa.
Which of course is exactly what Adam did to save his bride.
Which of course is why Adam is the most prominent type of Christ in all the Bible.

=============================================================================

Anyway, Psalm 22 is EXTREMELY complex, switching between different speakers and different times.

And never forget......Psalm 22 and Psalm 23 are a UNIT. And what does Psalm 23 say?
Oh yea:

Psa 23:1
The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.

This is the song of Israel in the millennium, with Jesus as their King.

====================================================================================

Did Jesus Sing A Song On The Cross? If you didn't know, you'll want to hear this
Stephen A. Chronister
Sept. 22, 2013
Hebrews 13:5; Psalm 22:1-16
Series: The Just Shall Live By Faith