Home Sweet... Mortgage...Or Rent. Which Would You Choose?

[Lynx]

Absolute AI generated blurb designed to get everyone comfortable with owning nothing and being happy.

It’s really kind of a no brainer. Even if you take away all the great things about owning your own home, it’s probably the single greatest financial investment you could ever make.

My wife and I now have a HUGE amount of equity after 30 years of home ownership.

You literally have a bank you are living in, that you can live on in your later years.

Especially if you’re not disciplined in in investing in other ways for your retirement.

A thing is only worth what somebody is willing to pay for it... Or able to pay for it. The value of that Bank of yours can fluctuate dramatically.

I mean, what you said was correct, but I wouldn't lean on it too hard.

 

[zeroturbulence]

Hey Everyone,

I don't know if the term "Home Sweet Home" is known worldwide, but that's what I was referring to in the title.

I know this thread might be seen as better suited for the Family or Miscellaneous forums, but since we seem to get a good amount of traffic here in Singles, I'm going to post this here.

I am wondering what people think about living in a house vs. living in an apartment, and renting vs. owning where they live.

I know that owning a home has long been seen as the ideal (at least here in the USA,) but with skyrocketing prices and a crazy housing market, it just might not be possible for everyone.

I've also noticed that as I get older, keeping up a home is just so much work and expense: the lawn, landscaping, property taxes, HOA fees, heating and cooling maintenance, painting, washing, etc. I've had to move several times for family and/or work, and so I'm left wondering if renting, though seemingly "throwing money into the great abyss" because you'll never own anything, might be a better option for future needs.

What about the rest of you? Especially singles who don't have anyone else to help with the chores or expenses...

If you give me a few minutes, I'm going to post a poll, but please don't let that be a substitute for posting here and adding your thoughts to the discussion.

The poll is going to be anonymous and multiple choice, and if I've forgotten any key points, feel free to add them here in your post. The poll function also only allows a limited number of choices, so I wouldn't have been able to include every option as it is.

Please tell us what answers you chose and why, and what living arrangements you think work best for your own life.

I know that for myself, hearing from others is an invaluable resource, so thank you for helping all of us when weighing this crucial life decision.

I'm looking forward to hearing from you!

@seoulsearch In my opinion, owning a home is better than renting as long as:

- you can afford the payment, property taxes, insurance, upkeep and repairs
- it's not a money pit (needs lots of repairs or upgrades)
- it's in a good area where property values aren't in risk of decline due to crime, proximity to environmental hazards, etc..

IF one can meet those 3 important criteria, the reason it's better is because when you sell it you get to recoup all the money you paid plus any equity. And if/when its paid off, it's paid off. You'll still have to pay taxes, upkeep and all that, but it's still much cheaper than renting a place of similar size.

 

[PennEd]

A thing is only worth what somebody is willing to pay for it... Or able to pay for it. The value of that Bank of yours can fluctuate dramatically.

I mean, what you said was correct, but I wouldn't lean on it too hard.

That's true.

However if we had 30 yrs of rent payments, instead of mortgage payments, we would have exactly zero assets to show for the hundreds of thousands of dollars we would have spent on housing over the years.

Now, we have AT LEAST that much CURRENTLY available to us through Home equity loans.

There is NO such thing as renter equity. It's money spent, and money gone.

 

[zeroturbulence]

**I forgot to add that you get all the money you paid back, minus the amount of interest that accrued on the mortgage.**

 

[seoulsearch]

@seoulsearch In my opinion, owning a home is better than renting as long as:

- you can afford the payment, property taxes, insurance, upkeep and repairs
- it's not a money pit (needs lots of repairs or upgrades)
- it's in a good area where property values aren't in risk of decline due to crime, proximity to environmental hazards, etc..

IF one can meet those 3 important criteria, the reason it's better is because when you sell it you get to recoup all the money you paid plus any equity. And if/when its paid off, it's paid off. You'll still have to pay taxes, upkeep and all that, but it's still much cheaper than renting a place of similar size.

That's true.

However if we had 30 yrs of rent payments, instead of mortgage payments, we would have exactly zero assets to show for the hundreds of thousands of dollars we would have spent on housing over the years.

Now, we have AT LEAST that much CURRENTLY available to us through Home equity loans.

There is NO such thing as renter equity. It's money spent, and money gone.

I definitely think it depends on the person (or persons') situation, especially these days.

I live in an area that is extremely expensive, and if you want to buy a house in an area that has a lesser chance of dealing with the homeless putting up tents on the corner (it's happening everywhere,) houses start at about half a million dollars. I am not in any way trying to put down the plight of the homeless, but the fentanyl situation is known to be so bad that even the police won't go to some areas.

I have family members who live in a what's considered a nice area across from several medical buildings, and a homeless village is forming behind their walled trash dumpster. It started out with a sheet draped across some branches. And now tents are going up...

The houses here are also built for families, which I do not have, so I don't need that kind of space, nor do I have the capacity to keep up with the yard and landscaping expenses, etc. Even if I mowed the lawn and did all the trimming myself, I'd still wind up paying for fertilizer, pest control, etc.

I have had a house before in other areas, so I do have some experience with what it involves. For myself, I actually find an apartment very freeing. When something goes wrong, I simply put in a maintenance ticket and am on good terms with the maintenance guy, who often answers my calls the same day. I don't have to worry about finding someone on my own in a each field (plumber, carpenter, etc.) who has enough skill and can be trusted within my living space -- it's all done for me.

I've done a lot of research on renting vs. owning and while I realize the numbers vary greatly, they say at today's prices, you'll only start to really get your investment back if you're planning to stay there 7-10 years, sometimes longer much longer. I don't have the luxury of thinking I'm going to stay in the same place for a long time because I go wherever my family most needs me.

I know the number one reason people say not to rent is because it's money you can't get back, but I recently heard an estimate that most homeowners have to pay about $1500 a month that they'll never get back either (maintenance, HOA fees, insurance, property taxes, etc.) Where I live, I'm sure that number is even higher, and if I'd already lose, say $2000 a month in money I can't get back, for me, it's worth it to rent instead. I love that I don't have to take care of a yard, and I get peace of mind in having help merely a text or email away.

I currently don't have any debts and I wouldn't sleep at night if I were suddenly chained to a half-million dollar debt plus accumulating interest, property taxes, sky-high insurance, and maintenance. For example, my apartment rental insurance this year was $125. I like the security of knowing (at least right now) that no bank has any power to dictate my life. And while sure, anything could happen, I'm in a complex so it's less likely that they'll sell the place out from under us and force us all to move.

The other thing about using a house to build wealth -- which I am all for if it works for some people -- but I never hear anyone talking about the fact that in order to actually make the money, you either have to rent out part or all of your house, or you have to sell and move. I've moved several times and it can be extremely expensive, along with taxes on the capital appreciation. Not to mention if you have to have your things stored if the sale/purchase/move-in date of a new place doesn't line up perfectly. Some of my family members have paid $30,000 in moving costs alone (granted it was across the country, but it's a reality for some people moving closer to family or to other areas.)

And that brings up the other thing I don't hear many people talking about -- even if you sell your house for a million dollars -- how much is left after taxes, moving costs, and buying a new place? Unless a person is really downsizing or moving to a less expensive area, their new residence might wind up costing even more than what they got for their original house. People also count on their houses appreciating in value -- but that's not always true. There's no guarantee that the price of one's house will go up, let alone enough to cover the costs of moving somewhere else.

I'm in a chat where lots of homeowners share their plights -- air conditioners that conked out and cost $12,000 to replace; a roof that needs to be redone; plumbing issues that cost an arm and a leg; flooding; property taxes and insurance doubling.

For myself, I know I could never handle all of that by my lone self -- so instead, I rent, save, and invest on my own.

I'm very thankful that for now at least, God has provided through renting.

I love it when people are able to own their own homes, but for me, it's just not a reality.

 

[SomeDisciple]

There is NO such thing as renter equity. It's money spent, and money gone

And worse, it's gone to be equity for somebody else... who might not even live in your country, btw.

Moreover, a steep decline in value is usually pretty predictable- and the federal reserve goes out of it's way to keep prices in general going up and not down.

 

[PennEd]

I definitely think it depends on the person (or persons') situation, especially these days.

I live in an area that is extremely expensive, and if you want to buy a house in an area that has a lesser chance of dealing with the homeless putting up tents on the corner (it's happening everywhere,) houses start at about half a million dollars. I am not in any way trying to put down the plight of the homeless, but the fentanyl situation is known to be so bad that even the police won't go to some areas.

I certainly agree that today, the affordability question is huge. Our first single family house we had we bought in 1992 for $93,000

Today, it's $350,00 . We never could afford it back then, even if we made a similar salary as today.

But with all things being equal, it doesn't make sense to rent. We lived in 2 different townhouses that we owned, and had no maintenance responsibilities. Yet still enjoyed the rising value and equity in both.

Plus, they had tennis courts and a pool.

 

[seoulsearch]

I certainly agree that today, the affordability question is huge. Our first single family house we had we bought in 1992 for $93,000

Today, it's $350,00 . We never could afford it back then, even if we made a similar salary as today.

But with all things being equal, it doesn't make sense to rent. We lived in 2 different townhouses that we owned, and had no maintenance responsibilities. Yet still enjoyed the rising value and equity in both.

Plus, they had tennis courts and a pool.

I most definitely agree with you.

But I think you also hit on the key issue, "With all things being equal, it doesn't make sense to rent."

If I could find something where all things actually were equal, owning would absolutely make sense. Unfortunately, I think the chances of finding places where all things are equal is becoming non-existent. It seems like the costs of owning a home are pretty much becoming a second mortgage in and of itself.

I have a good friend who lives in a northern state who was telling me about how much their house insurance had exploded this year, and their agent told them it's because their company also insures houses in FL. With FL always in a state of natural disaster, the company (like everyone else, I'm sure) is raising all their prices across the board, no matter where one lives, to help cover the losses in other states.

If I thought I'd be here for a solid decade or more and could find a place in a "reasonable" range with all the costs that come with it in an affordable range, I would absolutely at least consider it.

But unfortunately, I don't know of any area close, unless one is willing to live in a very unsavory neighborhood.

 

[zeroturbulence]

I definitely think it depends on the person (or persons') situation, especially these days.

I live in an area that is extremely expensive, and if you want to buy a house in an area that has a lesser chance of dealing with the homeless putting up tents on the corner (it's happening everywhere,) houses start at about half a million dollars. I am not in any way trying to put down the plight of the homeless, but the fentanyl situation is known to be so bad that even the police won't go to some areas.

I have family members who live in a what's considered a nice area across from several medical buildings, and a homeless village is forming behind their walled trash dumpster. It started out with a sheet draped across some branches. And now tents are going up...

The houses here are also built for families, which I do not have, so I don't need that kind of space, nor do I have the capacity to keep up with the yard and landscaping expenses, etc. Even if I mowed the lawn and did all the trimming myself, I'd still wind up paying for fertilizer, pest control, etc.

I have had a house before in other areas, so I do have some experience with what it involves. For myself, I actually find an apartment very freeing. When something goes wrong, I simply put in a maintenance ticket and am on good terms with the maintenance guy, who often answers my calls the same day. I don't have to worry about finding someone on my own in a each field (plumber, carpenter, etc.) who has enough skill and can be trusted within my living space -- it's all done for me.

I've done a lot of research on renting vs. owning and while I realize the numbers vary greatly, they say at today's prices, you'll only start to really get your investment back if you're planning to stay there 7-10 years, sometimes longer much longer. I don't have the luxury of thinking I'm going to stay in the same place for a long time because I go wherever my family most needs me.

I know the number one reason people say not to rent is because it's money you can't get back, but I recently heard an estimate that most homeowners have to pay about $1500 a month that they'll never get back either (maintenance, HOA fees, insurance, property taxes, etc.) Where I live, I'm sure that number is even higher, and if I'd already lose, say $2000 a month in money I can't get back, for me, it's worth it to rent instead. I love that I don't have to take care of a yard, and I get peace of mind in having help merely a text or email away.

I currently don't have any debts and I wouldn't sleep at night if I were suddenly chained to a half-million dollar debt plus accumulating interest, property taxes, sky-high insurance, and maintenance. For example, my apartment rental insurance this year was $125. I like the security of knowing (at least right now) that no bank has any power to dictate my life. And while sure, anything could happen, I'm in a complex so it's less likely that they'll sell the place out from under us and force us all to move.

The other thing about using a house to build wealth -- which I am all for if it works for some people -- but I never hear anyone talking about the fact that in order to actually make the money, you either have to rent out part or all of your house, or you have to sell and move. I've moved several times and it can be extremely expensive, along with taxes on the capital appreciation. Not to mention if you have to have your things stored if the sale/purchase/move-in date of a new place doesn't line up perfectly. Some of my family members have paid $30,000 in moving costs alone (granted it was across the country, but it's a reality for some people moving closer to family or to other areas.)

And that brings up the other thing I don't hear many people talking about -- even if you sell your house for a million dollars -- how much is left after taxes, moving costs, and buying a new place? Unless a person is really downsizing or moving to a less expensive area, their new residence might wind up costing even more than what they got for their original house. People also count on their houses appreciating in value -- but that's not always true. There's no guarantee that the price of one's house will go up, let alone enough to cover the costs of moving somewhere else.

I'm in a chat where lots of homeowners share their plights -- air conditioners that conked out and cost $12,000 to replace; a roof that needs to be redone; plumbing issues that cost an arm and a leg; flooding; property taxes and insurance doubling.

For myself, I know I could never handle all of that by my lone self -- so instead, I rent, save, and invest on my own.

I'm very thankful that for now at least, God has provided through renting.

I love it when people are able to own their own homes, but for me, it's just not a reality.

I'd just like to point out a few things..

- You don't have to live for X years to get your money back. You'll get back what you paid even if you just owned it 6 months. You'll get back 6 months of payments minus the interest that accrued on the mortgage.
- $12k to replace an AC unit is for a big house, probably 2500sq.ft. or more.
- A lot of homes without HOAs
- Home insurance in most states is between $100-$200 a month
- We don't use fertilizer or pesticide and our lawn's always been fine unless there's a drought (like now). Just have to keep it watered and mowed. A healthy lawn will deter weeds from growing too.

But I know home ownership isn't for everyone. I just wonder about when it's time to retire. I imagine it would be hard to retire if one doesn't have a house that's paid off.

 

[SomeDisciple]

I certainly agree that today, the affordability question is huge.

The affordability answer is big too. We complain that Canada subsidizes their loggers and smack them with huge tariffs while we let our trees burn to ashes instead; so we can keep the global warming narrative going.

 

[seoulsearch]

I'd just like to point out a few things..

- You don't have to live for X years to get your money back. You'll get back what you paid even if you just owned it 6 months. You'll get back 6 months of payments minus the interest that accrued on the mortgage.
- $12k to replace an AC unit is for a big house, probably 2500sq.ft. or more.
- A lot of homes without HOAs
- Home insurance in most states is between $100-$200 a month
- We don't use fertilizer or pesticide and our lawn's always been fine unless there's a drought (like now). Just have to keep it watered and mowed. A healthy lawn will deter weeds from growing too.

But I know home ownership isn't for everyone. I just wonder about when it's time to retire. I imagine it would be hard to retire if one doesn't have a house that's paid off.

For anyone who can find the right conditions and prices, I certainly support looking into a buying a house.

But for me:

* Living in an area with an HOA or commercialized lawn care to some extent isn't an option. These are the only types of places available where I would feel safe(r.) Even in places without an HOA, you'd most likely have to buy a huge plot of land that the house is on.

* I agree that a $12,000 for an AC unit would be a for a big place, but most of the houses here start at about 2200 square feet. My parents called about having something built and were told no one here builds any smaller than that. There's not really anything available for singles or even retired couples.

* I would only define "getting my money back" if the house had appreciated enough to cover all the costs involved (closing fees, taxes, title, etc.) as well as the costs to move somewhere else. A lot of people get themselves into trouble because they think they're only dealing with the price tag on the house and don't account for all the other things you have to pay for when selling/buying.

Even if you get the same price you paid, you're still out all the money for those things, along with a whole new set of fees you have to pay for a new place. So unless the original house value has grown enough to cover all of that, you're losing money.

And if for some reason the house has gone down in value, then you're really up a creek unless you find a much cheaper place to live.

These are just my own observations from having moved several times.

I'm the type of person who, if someone says something costs $1000, I'm going to plan for it to actually cost $1500 - $2000 just in case.

When it comes to financial situations, I won't take the leap (except in some kind of no-choice emergency) unless I know I've built up a good-sized back-up cushion.

 

[seoulsearch]

For anyone who can find the right conditions and prices, I certainly support looking into a buying a house.

But for me:

* Living in an area with an HOA or commercialized lawn care to some extent isn't an option. These are the only types of places available where I would feel safe(r.) Even in places without an HOA, you'd most likely have to buy a huge plot of land that the house is on.

* I agree that a $12,000 for an AC unit would be a for a big place, but most of the houses here start at about 2200 square feet. My parents called about having something built and were told no one here builds any smaller than that. There's not really anything available for singles or even retired couples.

* I would only define "getting my money back" if the house had appreciated enough to cover all the costs involved (closing fees, taxes, title, etc.) as well as the costs to move somewhere else. A lot of people get themselves into trouble because they think they're only dealing with the price tag on the house and don't account for all the other things you have to pay for when selling/buying.

Even if you get the same price you paid, you're still out all the money for those things, along with a whole new set of fees you have to pay for a new place. So unless the original house value has grown enough to cover all of that, you're losing money.

And if for some reason the house has gone down in value, then you're really up a creek unless you find a much cheaper place to live.

These are just my own observations from having moved several times.

I'm the type of person who, if someone says something costs $1000, I'm going to plan for it to actually cost $1500 - $2000 just in case.

When it comes to financial situations, I won't take the leap (except in some kind of no-choice emergency) unless I know I've built up a good-sized back-up cushion.

Sorry...

That first point was supposed to read that living in a non-HOA area is NOT something I find to be an option...

Simply because those areas are your best bet for not having to directly deal with the homeless regularly (but certainly not a guarantee.)

Just a few weeks ago I went to my dentist's office in a busy strip mall next to a very busy grocery store. As I walked toward the door, the police were escorting a homeless man off the premises because he was harassing an elderly couple trying to get to their vehicle (not even 20 feet away.)

Safety is my top concern as a single, and unfortunately, in this area, it comes with a very high price.

 

[PennEd]

I most definitely agree with you.

But I think you also hit on the key issue, "With all things being equal, it doesn't make sense to rent."

If I could find something where all things actually were equal, owning would absolutely make sense. Unfortunately, I think the chances of finding places where all things are equal is becoming non-existent. It seems like the costs of owning a home are pretty much becoming a second mortgage in and of itself.

I have a good friend who lives in a northern state who was telling me about how much their house insurance had exploded this year, and their agent told them it's because their company also insures houses in FL. With FL always in a state of natural disaster, the company (like everyone else, I'm sure) is raising all their prices across the board, no matter where one lives, to help cover the losses in other states.

If I thought I'd be here for a solid decade or more and could find a place in a "reasonable" range with all the costs that come with it in an affordable range, I would absolutely at least consider it.

But unfortunately, I don't know of any area close, unless one is willing to live in a very unsavory neighborhood.

People really need to understand just what is going on.

There are several factors why real estate prices have exploded.

But the BIGGEST reason by far, is the private equity firms that have come in and bought up to 40% of available houses on the market.

Especially what were traditionally starter homes for young people.

And they don’t fix them and flip them. They RENT them out with ever increasing rent amounts.

They may not call themselves Blackrock or Vanguard, but they are absolutely subsideieries of these evil corporations that own EVERYTHING. And I mean everything.

That is also the reason homeowners insurance has gotten insane. They own all the insurance companies as well. So there is no competition.

I cannot emphasize enough that there is definitely an organized Global effort by evil men to get you to own nothing and “be happy “.

The more people that wake up to this fundamental truth the more possible it is to stop them.

 

[Lynx]

I definitely think it depends on the person (or persons') situation, especially these days.

I live in an area that is extremely expensive, and if you want to buy a house in an area that has a lesser chance of dealing with the homeless putting up tents on the corner (it's happening everywhere,) houses start at about half a million dollars. I am not in any way trying to put down the plight of the homeless, but the fentanyl situation is known to be so bad that even the police won't go to some areas.

I have family members who live in a what's considered a nice area across from several medical buildings, and a homeless village is forming behind their walled trash dumpster. It started out with a sheet draped across some branches. And now tents are going up...

The houses here are also built for families, which I do not have, so I don't need that kind of space, nor do I have the capacity to keep up with the yard and landscaping expenses, etc. Even if I mowed the lawn and did all the trimming myself, I'd still wind up paying for fertilizer, pest control, etc.

I have had a house before in other areas, so I do have some experience with what it involves. For myself, I actually find an apartment very freeing. When something goes wrong, I simply put in a maintenance ticket and am on good terms with the maintenance guy, who often answers my calls the same day. I don't have to worry about finding someone on my own in a each field (plumber, carpenter, etc.) who has enough skill and can be trusted within my living space -- it's all done for me.

I've done a lot of research on renting vs. owning and while I realize the numbers vary greatly, they say at today's prices, you'll only start to really get your investment back if you're planning to stay there 7-10 years, sometimes longer much longer. I don't have the luxury of thinking I'm going to stay in the same place for a long time because I go wherever my family most needs me.

I know the number one reason people say not to rent is because it's money you can't get back, but I recently heard an estimate that most homeowners have to pay about $1500 a month that they'll never get back either (maintenance, HOA fees, insurance, property taxes, etc.) Where I live, I'm sure that number is even higher, and if I'd already lose, say $2000 a month in money I can't get back, for me, it's worth it to rent instead. I love that I don't have to take care of a yard, and I get peace of mind in having help merely a text or email away.

I currently don't have any debts and I wouldn't sleep at night if I were suddenly chained to a half-million dollar debt plus accumulating interest, property taxes, sky-high insurance, and maintenance. For example, my apartment rental insurance this year was $125. I like the security of knowing (at least right now) that no bank has any power to dictate my life. And while sure, anything could happen, I'm in a complex so it's less likely that they'll sell the place out from under us and force us all to move.

The other thing about using a house to build wealth -- which I am all for if it works for some people -- but I never hear anyone talking about the fact that in order to actually make the money, you either have to rent out part or all of your house, or you have to sell and move. I've moved several times and it can be extremely expensive, along with taxes on the capital appreciation. Not to mention if you have to have your things stored if the sale/purchase/move-in date of a new place doesn't line up perfectly. Some of my family members have paid $30,000 in moving costs alone (granted it was across the country, but it's a reality for some people moving closer to family or to other areas.)

And that brings up the other thing I don't hear many people talking about -- even if you sell your house for a million dollars -- how much is left after taxes, moving costs, and buying a new place? Unless a person is really downsizing or moving to a less expensive area, their new residence might wind up costing even more than what they got for their original house. People also count on their houses appreciating in value -- but that's not always true. There's no guarantee that the price of one's house will go up, let alone enough to cover the costs of moving somewhere else.

I'm in a chat where lots of homeowners share their plights -- air conditioners that conked out and cost $12,000 to replace; a roof that needs to be redone; plumbing issues that cost an arm and a leg; flooding; property taxes and insurance doubling.

For myself, I know I could never handle all of that by my lone self -- so instead, I rent, save, and invest on my own.

I'm very thankful that for now at least, God has provided through renting.

I love it when people are able to own their own homes, but for me, it's just not a reality.

Comedian quote:

I love renting because I'm not responsible for anything that goes down.

"Dude. Your bathroom sink is broke."

"No it ain't. Derek's bathroom sink is broke. I told him about it. He's coming to get it fixed Saturday. I don't have a bathroom sink."

 

[Lynx]

People really need to understand just what is going on.

There are several factors why real estate prices have exploded.

But the BIGGEST reason by far, is the private equity firms that have come in and bought up to 40% of available houses on the market.

Especially what were traditionally starter homes for young people.

And they don’t fix them and flip them. They RENT them out with ever increasing rent amounts.

They may not call themselves Blackrock or Vanguard, but they are absolutely subsideieries of these evil corporations that own EVERYTHING. And I mean everything.

That is also the reason homeowners insurance has gotten insane. They own all the insurance companies as well. So there is no competition.

I cannot emphasize enough that there is definitely an organized Global effort by evil men to get you to own nothing and “be happy “.

The more people that wake up to this fundamental truth the more possible it is to stop them.

Ah there it is. I figured you would get around to that eventually. Took a bit longer than I expected.

 

[seoulsearch]

I cannot emphasize enough that there is definitely an organized Global effort by evil men to get you to own nothing and “be happy “.
The more people that wake up to this fundamental truth the more possible it is to stop them.

What do you think would be the most effective steps at trying to stand up against this?

I often find myself having to pull back from feelings of despair when thinking about it all -- I know society is moving towards a time when us citizens don't own anything, not even simple things like home media -- but I'm never sure what to do about it, besides trying to vote my conscience, pray, and make ethical spending choices (to my best ability.)

 

[Snackersmom]

I say all this cause as rough as I can be and a rub some dirt in it or suffer in silence attitude I have for myself, the violent occupations I have chosen......I find this quirk so funny and even outta place cause what I love to grow is flowers......LOL

Marry me. NOW.




#Justkidding....mostly 😜

 

[SomeDisciple]

What do you think would be the most effective steps at trying to stand up against this?

It depends on how much of a priority it is to you; but I think it's really important- and having awareness and raising awareness is a good first step.

You're doing the right thing by praying and voting your conscience, obviously. That's the most important thing.

We could also attempt to motivate our government representatives, by various means. They DO know that this is an important topic- but they avoid it because they keep getting away with it... or in some cases they're legitimately dumb and don't know how to address it.

But raising awareness is key. If enough voices say "someone should do something about this", then there is motivation for those who are able to do it. The most important thing I learned in the military, is that closed mouths don't get fed. If you aren't willing to annoy people with a problem, it will not get addressed. Of course I could have just read the bible to learn this...

2“In a certain town there was a judge who neither feared God nor respected men. 3And there was a widow in that town who kept appealing to him, ‘Give me justice against my adversary.’
4For a while he refused, but later he said to himself, ‘Though I neither fear God nor respect men, 5yet because this widow keeps pestering me, I will give her justice. Then she will stop wearing me out with her perpetual requests.’ ”

 

[PennEd]

Ah there it is. I figured you would get around to that eventually. Took a bit longer than I expected.

You got an issue with that?

 

[Lynx]

You got an issue with that?

Nope. It's part of who you are. Kind of comforting to know there are some dependable things in this world of ever increasing chaos.