Total Depravity
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No. Christ does not cause Peter to sin.
No, it was not a really lucky guess. It was a calculation based on living with and discipling Peter for three years and it was a highly likely response from Peter to threats to his life. What Jesus actually said was,
"Before the cock crows twice, you will deny Me three times". Peter responds,
"No Lord. Even if all deny you, yet I will never deny you." To this Jesus responds,
"I tell you the truth, before the cock crows, you will deny me three times." And again Peter denies.
If one reads the gospels carefully, it is clear that Peter denied Jesus nine times. six times before the first cock crowed, and three more times before the cock crowed twice. Jesus was not giving an exact numerical prediction. Jesus was focussing on warning Peter of Peter's fickleness. "Before the cock crows twice you will deny Me three times. In fact, before the cock crows even once, you will deny Me three times."
It was a prediction based on an intimate past and present knowledge of Peter's present character. Not a really lucky guess, but quite an easy prediction.
No, it was not a really lucky guess. It was a calculation based on living with and discipling Peter for three years and it was a highly likely response from Peter to threats to his life. What Jesus actually said was,
"Before the cock crows twice, you will deny Me three times". Peter responds,
"No Lord. Even if all deny you, yet I will never deny you." To this Jesus responds,
"I tell you the truth, before the cock crows, you will deny me three times." And again Peter denies.
If one reads the gospels carefully, it is clear that Peter denied Jesus nine times. six times before the first cock crowed, and three more times before the cock crowed twice. Jesus was not giving an exact numerical prediction. Jesus was focussing on warning Peter of Peter's fickleness. "Before the cock crows twice you will deny Me three times. In fact, before the cock crows even once, you will deny Me three times."
It was a prediction based on an intimate past and present knowledge of Peter's present character. Not a really lucky guess, but quite an easy prediction.
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Does Love persuade, which can also include coerce, which can also trend into compel in the sense of using pressure?
It seems the second death and Lake of Fire should be compelling persuasion, at least for those who might consider it, which I'm pretty certain some to many do. For those who aren't that technical, most I think are aware of the concept of Hell.
It seems the second death and Lake of Fire should be compelling persuasion, at least for those who might consider it, which I'm pretty certain some to many do. For those who aren't that technical, most I think are aware of the concept of Hell.
Read the four gospels and count how many times Peter denied Jesus. God speaks to us in the language we use to speak to each other; and He can be at times just as colloquially imprecise.
It is not an error to say Peter would deny Jesus three times, but he denies Jesus nine times. One has to do something three times to get to nine times. Someone who does something nine times must have done it three times as well.
It is not an error to say Peter would deny Jesus three times, but he denies Jesus nine times. One has to do something three times to get to nine times. Someone who does something nine times must have done it three times as well.
That involves a principle in regards to the Word of God.
There are truths contained within the Word that can not be seen unless they are pointed out to you.
Yet? Once pointed out?
They become obvious, and simple.
But, until then?..
The truth could not be seen.
We must be led by the Spirit who gently points out what is to be made simple and clear.
There are truths contained within the Word that can not be seen unless they are pointed out to you.
Yet? Once pointed out?
They become obvious, and simple.
But, until then?..
The truth could not be seen.
We must be led by the Spirit who gently points out what is to be made simple and clear.
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The chastening for the ones He loves is His discipline of His children so we can share in His holiness, which has always been one of those sections of Scripture (Hebrews) that has profoundly affected me - sharing in the holiness of the Creator of all things is quite the concept to ponder.
I think we both know that man does not believe apart from God's work. It's just a matter of what that work is that brings man to saving belief.
I think we both know that man does not believe apart from God's work. It's just a matter of what that work is that brings man to saving belief.
So you limit Him to function as His creation, then you make Him a bully by using His power to get His own way and then you say I'm making Him the author of evil because ... you forgot there are other wills working in the world? The verse says He declares, not creates things "before they happen".
Based on your logic of me making God the author of evil then that would mean the creator of binary coding is the author of all computer trojans and virus etc.
The problem is you begin with a false logic. God is not confined to acting the same way as His creation. You have used quantum mechanics to declare God's knowing must happen according to a certain manner. Then you assume He is using His power to create the events He wants. Isaiah 46:10 says nothing like what you assume.
Worst of all, you see no contradiction in the potential to be wrong as having an impact upon righteousness, which is what I originally pointed out. He can't reach a T-junction and decide to turn to the left only to find it was the wrong way to go and then use His power to achieve His will. That's the mark of a bully. "I stuffed up but you will pay for it".
God is not the author of the worlds evil, He is the author of volition and has given everyone a certain amount of power to use their own volition without His interference. Being both omniscient and omnipotent is what enables Him "to work all things together for good" and gives Him the right to judge.
Based on your logic of me making God the author of evil then that would mean the creator of binary coding is the author of all computer trojans and virus etc.
The problem is you begin with a false logic. God is not confined to acting the same way as His creation. You have used quantum mechanics to declare God's knowing must happen according to a certain manner. Then you assume He is using His power to create the events He wants. Isaiah 46:10 says nothing like what you assume.
Worst of all, you see no contradiction in the potential to be wrong as having an impact upon righteousness, which is what I originally pointed out. He can't reach a T-junction and decide to turn to the left only to find it was the wrong way to go and then use His power to achieve His will. That's the mark of a bully. "I stuffed up but you will pay for it".
God is not the author of the worlds evil, He is the author of volition and has given everyone a certain amount of power to use their own volition without His interference. Being both omniscient and omnipotent is what enables Him "to work all things together for good" and gives Him the right to judge.
If you think that, you just aren't listening.
As a parent, when my child made a mess by throwing his toys around, I sometimes had to make his hands pick up the toys and put them back in their containers manipulating his fingers and body to do my will. Was I being a bully?
What is your suggested mechanism or process by which God knows the next century before it happens? Is he looking through time and actually seeing events playing out in the next century, and reporting what He is seeing will be? Or is he making theoretical calculations of the minutiae leading from now until the next century and predicting what will happen? Or did He create the world, planning and determining that the exact events in the next century would play out exactly as they will? Or do you have some other process in mind?
Did the creator of binary coding know at the time that trojans and viruses would eventuate, and did he know with specificity all the problems these trojans and viruses would cause in the world before he released his invention into the world? If he did, then he WOULD BE the author of all computer viruses and trojans,
I have not begun with any claim that "God must be confined to acting the same way as His creation".
I did not use quantum mechanics to prove anything. @posthuman introduced claims about quantum mechanics in his attempt to disprove my position.
Actually, Is 46:10 says exactly that. He declares it and then DOES IT.
You would have loved Sister Verda at my primary school, who would cane students for making spelling errors. I guess she agreed with you, that being wrong is anything was a moral failing.
So, when a government makes a mistake and finds their policy has unexpected negative consequences, passing legislation to fix the loophole or to replace the policy with another, is being a bully?
yay! We agree on something, at least..
And we agree on that too. Excellent.
As a parent, when my child made a mess by throwing his toys around, I sometimes had to make his hands pick up the toys and put them back in their containers manipulating his fingers and body to do my will. Was I being a bully?
What is your suggested mechanism or process by which God knows the next century before it happens? Is he looking through time and actually seeing events playing out in the next century, and reporting what He is seeing will be? Or is he making theoretical calculations of the minutiae leading from now until the next century and predicting what will happen? Or did He create the world, planning and determining that the exact events in the next century would play out exactly as they will? Or do you have some other process in mind?
Did the creator of binary coding know at the time that trojans and viruses would eventuate, and did he know with specificity all the problems these trojans and viruses would cause in the world before he released his invention into the world? If he did, then he WOULD BE the author of all computer viruses and trojans,
I have not begun with any claim that "God must be confined to acting the same way as His creation".
I did not use quantum mechanics to prove anything. @posthuman introduced claims about quantum mechanics in his attempt to disprove my position.
Actually, Is 46:10 says exactly that. He declares it and then DOES IT.
You would have loved Sister Verda at my primary school, who would cane students for making spelling errors. I guess she agreed with you, that being wrong is anything was a moral failing.
So, when a government makes a mistake and finds their policy has unexpected negative consequences, passing legislation to fix the loophole or to replace the policy with another, is being a bully?
yay! We agree on something, at least..
And we agree on that too. Excellent.