Total Depravity

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PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
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Jesus doesn't claim to have a goatfold. He doesn't claim to have come for lost goats. He does claim to separate the goats from the sheep.
I agree with all of that. But that doesn't answer my questions.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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I agree with all of that. But that doesn't answer my questions.
I don't recall seeing a description of goats, other than they are separated to the opposite side of the sheep.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,149
30,296
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Who are you, O woman, to contradict God? If God says he repented, who are you to contradict Him and say He did not.
How is asking questions contradicting God?

Who are you, oh man, to falsely accuse me?
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
3,448
539
113
What are the attributes of goats that make them different from sheep? Are there people who are like goats who become like sheep in this regard?

What are the attributes of tares that make them different from wheat? Are there people who are like tares who become like wheat in this regard?
This is not just directed to you....


Take a good look at Saul of Tarsus.
He was murdering and rounding up Christians....

Now...with that in mind?

Go and create some formula as to how we can know who are sheep and goats before salvation.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
3,448
539
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Why would God want to scare the hell out of Moses, all the while knowing He was going to show mercy to Israel but nevertheless threatening Moses with their destruction? Surely, it was the Israelites who needed scaring, not Moses.

And what difference would it make whether God knew in advance how Israel would behave, or God discovered in real time how Israel would behave and adjusted His strategies in real time to shepherd the people into the promised land?
God was not scaring Moses. Moses was scared for the people he loved.

What about all the many Jews in Isaiah's day who through disobedience brought upon themselves God's steps of disciplinary action? Jews who later sat on the walls as Isaiah taught them daily?
With all the while... the Assyrian army that had not been defeated for centuries, was surrounding their city?

Isaiah was not scared for his own life.. And ... The Jews finally repented.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,957
13,615
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Why would God want to scare the hell out of Moses, all the while knowing He was going to show mercy to Israel but nevertheless threatening Moses with their destruction? Surely, it was the Israelites who needed scaring, not Moses.
God doesn't scare Moses, He tells him he will make a great nation out of him. that's good, not scary.
He does this because Moses is in the place of the Son in the Christology - as it is written in Isaiah 8:18 which the Spirit interprets in Hebrews 2:13, and in many other places as well.
and Moses, typifying Christ, out of love mediates for compassion and mercy, for the sake of the name of God - - His name is Salvation, Yah-Shua.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,957
13,615
113
And what difference would it make whether God knew in advance how Israel would behave, or God discovered in real time how Israel would behave and adjusted His strategies in real time to shepherd the people into the promised land?
if time is greater than God then we should be worshipping that which is greater, not that which is lesser.
 

BillyBob

Active member
Dec 20, 2023
409
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Texas
I have lived in Texas for about 50 yrs, and I've never seen a goat turn into an armadillo! I don't think it's possible!!
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
3,448
539
113
I have lived in Texas for about 50 yrs, and I've never seen a goat turn into an armadillo! I don't think it's possible!!

I once saw a goat turn into an armadillo.

The goat had bad eyes....

:coffee::coffee::coffee:
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,080
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I have lived in Texas for about 50 yrs, and I've never seen a goat turn into an armadillo! I don't think it's possible!!
You're ok so long as you don't give up your 2nd Amendment right to arm the dillo.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
4,030
1,319
113
Australia
Jer 31:3 The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.
He forced me to have free will

:coffee:
Forced to have free will... contradicts itself.

Forced or not Forced?

Sure we do not need to understand how it all works but does God force us to love Him or not force us.

The principle and character of God is being questioned.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
4,030
1,319
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Australia
how would we know?

is it really, by our opinions?
Because the question is being asked

Is God forcing us to love Him or not?

We might not know but we can ask the question? Question the character and principle.

Is God forcing us or not?
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
4,030
1,319
113
Australia
Ever wonder?

What would we be like if we were not having depravity?



We will not know until we are resurrected.
I agree, this flesh that is in me is depraved, and tempted so easily..

When we are filled with the Spirit of God there is peace and joy. This is what it will be like but the flesh will not be striving and warring against the Spirit.

Rom 7:21-25
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
3,448
539
113
He forced me to have free will

:coffee:

One can say?...

He forced (by grace) what was needed to be forced, in order to enable your unregenerated soul to be able to exercise
its own choice, free of coercion, having been made free from the overpowering influence of the flesh that would have
otherwise enslaved the soul to resist and reject God's essence making himself known.

That is why we need to be saved by grace.

Grace is not some nice feeling God has towards us to encourage us somehow to do what He wishes.
Grace is real power from God.


But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.”
Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may
rest on me. "
2 Corinthians 12:9


Grace power that arranges for a soul to be made free for whatever time is needed to make a decision
concerning what God was presenting to a person in his thought pattern to consider.

In that way, one is made totally free to accept, or reject, in the deep privacy of one's own mind.

In that stage of being drawn, one is aware of somethings being presented, but not yet aware who it is doing the presentation.

For those who keep approving of what is drawing them?
At some point known to the Father they will be handed over to the Son as to finally discover Whom it was who had been drawing them! They will see Whom it is in Jesus Christ.


grace and peace .........