What to do in church meetings Protestant Tradition v. Scripture
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1 Corinthians 13
1If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned,a but have not love, I gain nothing.
4Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant 5or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful;b 6it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. 7Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. 11When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.
13So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
The chapter is about love. 11 & 12 speaks to as long as we remain in flesh ability-wise we are children. But when we see Jesus face to face, we will see Him as He is, & we will be like Him. That's when the perfect comes, & the partial(child) passes away.
As long as we are in these cursed bodies, gifts will be needed to do the works of God & follow in Jesus' steps.
NEVER use a scripture verse by itself! Those who thinks it means the gifts ceased, DO SO without the context & DO SO totally wrong.
We all know that those that have been doing so KNOW they're supposed to use context, & don't. If we know to do good & don't do it, it's sin.
Love is the only gift that remains throughout eternity, so Love is the greatest spiritual gift of all, because God is love.
1If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned,a but have not love, I gain nothing.
4Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant 5or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful;b 6it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. 7Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. 11When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.
13So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
The chapter is about love. 11 & 12 speaks to as long as we remain in flesh ability-wise we are children. But when we see Jesus face to face, we will see Him as He is, & we will be like Him. That's when the perfect comes, & the partial(child) passes away.
As long as we are in these cursed bodies, gifts will be needed to do the works of God & follow in Jesus' steps.
NEVER use a scripture verse by itself! Those who thinks it means the gifts ceased, DO SO without the context & DO SO totally wrong.
We all know that those that have been doing so KNOW they're supposed to use context, & don't. If we know to do good & don't do it, it's sin.
Love is the only gift that remains throughout eternity, so Love is the greatest spiritual gift of all, because God is love.
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No they were not. I am talking those in the first and secont centuries. Not the fourth and fifth. And for further confirmation read Philip Schaff's History of the Christian Church. https://archive.org/details/historyofchris03scha
Really? Since when did you get this bizarre notion?
And there are no more Five-Fold ministries. The apostles and prophets are long gone, but if you think that modern false apostles and prophets are fine, no one will stop you.
The only valid ministries are (1) evangelists (2) pastors, and (2) teachers.
And there are no more Five-Fold ministries. The apostles and prophets are long gone, but if you think that modern false apostles and prophets are fine, no one will stop you.
The only valid ministries are (1) evangelists (2) pastors, and (2) teachers.
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No, I don`t think the false ones people see are true. To only have those 3 ministries leads to wrong leadership - democracy, congregational, etc types. That is why men gather around them people and they set themselves up as the leader. With the 5-fold ministries each have a part and contribute together, there is not one head. For Christ is the Head and He guides by His Holy Spirit through the 5 - fold offices of Himself.
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/cessationist/?amp
This is useful on this matter
This is useful on this matter
Do you have a genuine apostle or prophet in your church? If so show us the proof. If not, that refutes your statement. and you can't claim that they will not be in every church.
The apostles and prophets were foundational, but they are all now within the Bible. What we now have are evangelists, pastors, and teachers. We also have a complete Bible.
The apostles and prophets were foundational, but they are all now within the Bible. What we now have are evangelists, pastors, and teachers. We also have a complete Bible.
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There were only 12 Apostles of the Lamb. Together, they were a irrefutable witness of the baptism, ministry, death, and ascension of Jesus Christ.
“Therefore, of these men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22 beginning from the baptism of John to that day when He was taken up from us, one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.”
“You, O Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which of these two You have chosen 25 to take part in this ministry and apostleship..."
It should be noted: another apostle listed in scripture did not meet these requirements. Therefore, he could not be numbered among the 12. No matter his contribution to the scriptural testimony (God does not esteem men like men esteem themselves) he could not have given eye-witness testimony of the ministry, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus.
Of course I'm talking about Barnabas.
"But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard this, they tore their clothes and ran in among the multitude, crying out..."
Paul was another apostle who was not among the 12 Apostles of the Lamb. Paul even wrote as much:
In Acts 6 this is recorded: "Then the twelve summoned the multitude of the disciples and said, “It is not desirable that we should leave the word of God and serve tables."
The twelve now included Matthias.
Then Paul wrote this: "For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve..."
Paul did not number himself among the twelve. He, like Barnabas, Timothy, Silvanus, were other apostles mentioned in the Bible, not Apostles of the Lamb as seen in Revelation:
"Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb."
Of course the apostolic gift is foundational as is the prophetic gift. God intended that those gifts work together. Why? Because it is given to the prophets to hear God directly (vital to the life of a believer) and to teach others to hear God. And it is given to the apostles to know and establish the administration and organization of the church and to correct any weakness thereof. God did not remove the need for people skilled with these gifts. Indeed, as the world rushes to the end, knowing what God is doing and how He is doing it will become more and more important to those who are spiritual.
Last note: although demonstrations of power may be necessary, the life of an apostle will primarily be identified as one who builds up the Body of Christ, loves and supports the saints, and devotion to the Lord in all things. Humility and reverence for the Lord will follow him. Many would testify of his kindness and grace.
However, like the Lord, apostles may often create conflict: primarily strife between the spiritually minded and the worldly. A faithful apostle will be lied about, ridiculed, and slandered. Assured of his place in Christ, he will likely remain silent as others disparage him.
“Therefore, of these men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22 beginning from the baptism of John to that day when He was taken up from us, one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.”
“You, O Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which of these two You have chosen 25 to take part in this ministry and apostleship..."
It should be noted: another apostle listed in scripture did not meet these requirements. Therefore, he could not be numbered among the 12. No matter his contribution to the scriptural testimony (God does not esteem men like men esteem themselves) he could not have given eye-witness testimony of the ministry, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus.
Of course I'm talking about Barnabas.
"But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard this, they tore their clothes and ran in among the multitude, crying out..."
Paul was another apostle who was not among the 12 Apostles of the Lamb. Paul even wrote as much:
In Acts 6 this is recorded: "Then the twelve summoned the multitude of the disciples and said, “It is not desirable that we should leave the word of God and serve tables."
The twelve now included Matthias.
Then Paul wrote this: "For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve..."
Paul did not number himself among the twelve. He, like Barnabas, Timothy, Silvanus, were other apostles mentioned in the Bible, not Apostles of the Lamb as seen in Revelation:
"Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb."
Of course the apostolic gift is foundational as is the prophetic gift. God intended that those gifts work together. Why? Because it is given to the prophets to hear God directly (vital to the life of a believer) and to teach others to hear God. And it is given to the apostles to know and establish the administration and organization of the church and to correct any weakness thereof. God did not remove the need for people skilled with these gifts. Indeed, as the world rushes to the end, knowing what God is doing and how He is doing it will become more and more important to those who are spiritual.
Last note: although demonstrations of power may be necessary, the life of an apostle will primarily be identified as one who builds up the Body of Christ, loves and supports the saints, and devotion to the Lord in all things. Humility and reverence for the Lord will follow him. Many would testify of his kindness and grace.
However, like the Lord, apostles may often create conflict: primarily strife between the spiritually minded and the worldly. A faithful apostle will be lied about, ridiculed, and slandered. Assured of his place in Christ, he will likely remain silent as others disparage him.
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So many forget the sermon Peter preached in Acts 2, quoting Joel. That prophecy included young & old men, sons & daughters, & male & female servants.
God promised to empower His church & it was on the Day of Pentecost. There is NO scripture saying it will end, meaning the whole church, for God is no respecter of persons.
I can't make anyone believe it, you must believe for yourselves.
With the world as it is now, the church needs all the help it can get.
God promised to empower His church & it was on the Day of Pentecost. There is NO scripture saying it will end, meaning the whole church, for God is no respecter of persons.
I can't make anyone believe it, you must believe for yourselves.
With the world as it is now, the church needs all the help it can get.
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