Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR
- Thread starter MerSee
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You call HeIsHere dishonest for misrepresenting what other people say, and then immediately misrepresent what HeIsHere said. HeIsHere did not say one does not need the Holy Spirit. HeIsHere did not say,
"People can hear and respond affirmatively to the Gospel message because of only the power of the truth and their own conscience." The Holy Spirit, as the Spirit of Truth, is working to confirm truth to everyone. He is not just interested in religious truths. God made the universe, and He is interested in affirming whatever is true in the universe He made.
"People can hear and respond affirmatively to the Gospel message because of only the power of the truth and their own conscience." The Holy Spirit, as the Spirit of Truth, is working to confirm truth to everyone. He is not just interested in religious truths. God made the universe, and He is interested in affirming whatever is true in the universe He made.
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Firstly, the law included painful sanctions against the most egregious destructive behaviours. This slowed down the leaven leavening the entire Israelite nation.
Secondly, because God had not been reckoning men's sins against them before the law, they were presuming God did not care about sin.
Thirdly, without a God-ordained standard of goodness, men were comparing themselves with others and measuring themselves among themselves. and self-righteousness and pride were growing, and despising and mistreatment of the "less righteous" was increasing.
Among other things, the Law put the brakes on these three issues.
Secondly, because God had not been reckoning men's sins against them before the law, they were presuming God did not care about sin.
Thirdly, without a God-ordained standard of goodness, men were comparing themselves with others and measuring themselves among themselves. and self-righteousness and pride were growing, and despising and mistreatment of the "less righteous" was increasing.
Among other things, the Law put the brakes on these three issues.
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OT saints knew much more than you seem to think. They knew grace. They knew faith. They knew to walk by faith and not sight. They knew they needed a redeemer and that He lived. They knew about preaching. They knew about atonement and blood sacrifice. And that's all in the first half of the book of Genesis. Long before the law. They might not have known His name as Jesus, but they knew that God would provide Himself a lamb. And while they saw the promises from afar, they had every assurance that the promises belonged to them. They didn't simply believe that God existed. They interacted with Him. They experienced His presence and protection and provision. They believed what He said was true for them. They heard His voice and followed Him.
Everything that is true for new covenant believers is found in the OT. It was concealed, but present. And God revealed these things to those under grace. And this is so because the covenant of grace was in place before the foundation of the world.
Everything that is true for new covenant believers is found in the OT. It was concealed, but present. And God revealed these things to those under grace. And this is so because the covenant of grace was in place before the foundation of the world.
The law has many purposes. It reveals much about God. It restrains sin. It also preserved Israel from destruction until Messiah.
Did anyone need to tell Cain that murder was wrong? Did God need the law to pass judgment on all mankind?
And knowing what is wrong doesn't empower one to do right. The law convicts. It also leads one to Christ.
Did anyone need to tell Cain that murder was wrong? Did God need the law to pass judgment on all mankind?
And knowing what is wrong doesn't empower one to do right. The law convicts. It also leads one to Christ.
Yes, you did, you supported them in your post. That's why I pointed it out.
Where did I say it wasn't? Maybe read before you respond.
Nope I believe what it says, the problem is, you don't.
He says He wishes that none will perish. You don't believe what He says. Why even read the Bible?
Where did I say it wasn't? Maybe read before you respond.
Nope I believe what it says, the problem is, you don't.
He says He wishes that none will perish. You don't believe what He says. Why even read the Bible?
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That's fair. I should have worded it more carefully. No one is arguing that the Spirit isn't necessary. What I should have said is HeIsHere doesn't believe grace is necessary for faith. That is, God merely needs to present the gospel alone apart from making a change in the disposition of the hearer for salvation to occur. The only grace present is that the gospel is delivered.
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From Romans 6:16-18 ~ Do you not know that you are slaves to the one you obey, whether you are slaves to sin leading to death, or to obedience leading to righteousness? But thanks be to God that, though you once were slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were committed. You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
If I were to rearrange the sentence structure without changing the meaning of this verse, it would read, 'But thanks be to God that, you were committed to the form of teaching you wholeheartedly obeyed, though you once were slaves to sin. You were set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness (re: being committed to wholeheartedly obeying the teaching).
Why, then, is thanks attributed to God if being set free is dependent on obedience to the teaching? Because, under the law, your obedience is counting in disobedience if at any time whatsoever you were disobedient in your obedience to sin, but God has brought us out of obedience to the law.
*Disclaimer: I don't mean, nor want, to approach these threads to argue over opinions but merely to exercise the liberty to present my own to autonomous minds for consideration, rather than attempt to produce any automatons after my likeness.
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Yes. I hear you... and I think what so many miss or kick and scream about, is that it is God working in us
that gives us that freedom from bondage to sin. Why do people kick and scream against it? Because it
conflicts with their idea that man's will is free despite the clear teaching of Scripture to the contrary.
PS~ You are welcome! I've added John 8:34 to the panel...
From Romans 6:16-18 ~ Do you not know that you are slaves to the one you obey, whether you are slaves to sin leading to death, or to obedience leading to righteousness? But thanks be to God that, though you once were slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were committed. You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
that gives us that freedom from bondage to sin. Why do people kick and scream against it? Because it
conflicts with their idea that man's will is free despite the clear teaching of Scripture to the contrary.
PS~ You are welcome! I've added John 8:34 to the panel...
From Romans 6:16-18 ~ Do you not know that you are slaves to the one you obey, whether you are slaves to sin leading to death, or to obedience leading to righteousness? But thanks be to God that, though you once were slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were committed. You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.