Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

[Magenta]

From Romans 6:16-18 ~ Do you not know that you are slaves to the one you obey, whether you are slaves to sin leading to death, or to obedience leading to righteousness? But thanks be to God that, though you once were slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were committed. You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

 

[PaulThomson]

Do you think that means God did not know who would and who would not believe?

Some say that His omniscience does not include that knowledge. I find that odd.

Isaiah 46:10

That's because you, like Augustine, interpret the Bible in the light of Platonism, which

From Romans 6:16-18 ~ Do you not know that you are slaves to the one you obey, whether you are slaves to sin leading to death, or to obedience leading to righteousness? But thanks be to God that, though you once were slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were committed. You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

Can a slave of righteousness do anything other than righteousness, IYO ? Can a slave of sin do anything other than sin, IYO?

 

[Hakawaka]

It seems that you do not yet know who man is after the Fall and somehow think that God must have lied when He warned that man would die that day (Genesis 2:17).

The Scriptures plainly declare that all are slaves to sin and Satan, his children, bear his evil image unless they are born again but people like you pervert the Gospel by declaring that the doctrine of original sin is not true and that Christ only came to make salvation possible for those who would choose Him when none desire to do so unless God has chosen them.

I dont take kindly to that type of disrespect, pervert the Gospel? You just basically said if I dont agree with your fairly new interpretation of the Scriptures that I am accursed. Do you behave this way when you arent hiding behind a screen? I have my doubts.

When did I claim original sin is not true? I do believe in original sin. You said none desire to choose GOd, thats just plainly not true. Look at how many sincere yet incorrect believers there are, you think the mormons don't want to choose God? They do, they are just sincerely WRONG

 

[HeIsHere]

The cross is not the power of god to Calvinists. To Calvinists, Irresistible Grace is the power of God. Under Calvinism, it is not the message of the cross has has power to win the hearts of sinners. To Calvinists the message of the cross, the sacrifice of the Lamb of God as propitiation r the the sins of the world, is foolishness..

Make no mistake, one cannot hold to part of TULIP, it will not work, it is either the whole system or none.

As well, this is exactly the doctrine they hold, the message of the cross is meaningless because it cannot be understood unless God changes the heart first (irresistible grace) however its teachers, adherents, book writers and promoters make it sound logical and benign when it is any but.
Notice the word changes in an attempt to make it more palatable.

This is why we hear opponents state and warn that Calvinism teaches a different Gospel, because it does.

 

[HeIsHere]

It's a simple sentence:

He...God
hath chosen...the action of God
us...the recipient of the action

All the rest is simply descriptive. People are what has been chosen.

You forgot certain people.

 

[Cameron143]

Make no mistake, one cannot hold to part of TULIP, it will not work, it is either the whole system or none.

As well, this is exactly the doctrine they hold, the message of the cross is meaningless because it cannot be understood unless God changes the heart first (irresistible grace) however its teachers, adherents, book writers and promoters make it sound logical and benign when it is any but.
Notice the word changes in an attempt to make it more palatable.

This is why we hear opponents state and warn that Calvinism teaches a different Gospel, because it does.

Your first premise is wrong. No one is saying they can't understand it. They understand just fine. They simply reject it. To them it is foolishness. It is only to those being saved that the gospel is the power of God.
You continually misrepresent this truth. At this point one can only assume this is intentional. It's also dishonest.

 

[HeIsHere]

Scripture you base this on?

Acts 2:37
Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brethren, what shall we do?” Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.”

Reformed Doctrine https://reformedwitnesshour.org/broadcast/pricked-in-the-heart/

No! Never! The greatest miracle is the work of God accomplished through the preaching of the Word as applied by the Holy Spirit. The greatest power of God is not a room trembling. The greatest power of God is not even the removal of a mountain. The greatest power of God is in the pricking of a heart. There is more power of God in His pricking of the heart than in His holding of the world in its place. This is the miracle of grace. Is it true for you?

The change was not produced by a clever, psychological ploy; not by persuasive appeal; not by skillful crowd manipulation; but by the Word of God preached from faithful lips and brought by irresistible grace through the Holy Spirit. Is this the effect of God’s Word preached upon you? Not indifference, not polite neutrality, not complacency. But pricked in the heart?


The text no where states the action was done by God, pierced to the heart, um perhaps here is a novel concept maybe it was their conscience. Calvinists don't believe that a person can hear the Gospel and be moved, no they are born with an inability to respond so god can be magnified in their inability. Sounds like an insecure god to me.

Same ole doctrine with different words to express it. Eisegesis its finest.

 

[HeIsHere]

Your first premise is wrong. No one is saying they can't understand it. They understand just fine. They simply reject it. To them it is foolishness. It is only to those being saved that the gospel is the power of God.
You continually misrepresent this truth. At this point one can only assume this is intentional. It's also dishonest.

I am not misrepresenting the truth, I am denying what you promote. People can hear and respond affirmatively to the Gospel message because of the power of the truth and their own conscience.

They are not born unable to respond correctly, other things may interfere for some but not all.

Nowhere does scripture states people are BORN morally unable to respond positively to Truth, nor does it state each and every person who walked the earth considers the Gospel foolish unless the Holy Spirit changes their heart.

 

[Cameron143]

I am not misrepresenting the truth, I am denying what you promote. People can hear and respond affirmatively to the Gospel message because of the power of the truth and their own conscience.

They are not born unable to respond correctly, other things may interfere for some but not all.

Nowhere does scripture states people are BORN morally unable to respond positively to Truth, nor does it state each and every person who walked the earth considers the Gospel foolish unless the Holy Spirit changes their heart.

You are dishonest in how you represent what other people have stated. And you have people able to get saved through the application of their conscience and will. You don't even need the Holy Spirit. This neither comports to the word of God or the reality of the condition of fallen man. The word of God alone is insufficient to salvation. To be born again requires water and Spirit. You have a man-centered view of salvation.

 

[HeIsHere]

Well this website is interesting...

These people who, of themselves, were hard of heart were pricked, pierced through as with a spear, struck to the very core of their being. Their consciences were smitten. They were crushed. Unbelief has been exposed to them and all of their sin. Their eyes have been opened to their wickedness toward Christ. They were pricked in the heart.

yes so far so good.... and then..

The Word of God will always produce a response from a man’s heart. In Acts 7:54 we read, “When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.” That is a reference to Stephen who had been preaching before the Jews basically the same message that Peter preached. He had exposed the Jews’ hardness of heart. They were a stiffnecked people. The Word preached had been laid before them, pressed to their heart. They understood what Stephen was saying. But they stopped their ears, we read. And they ran upon him. The Word got to them and elicited a response of hatred.

.....
A pricked heart is a heart to which the Holy Spirit has brought the Word of God.

And there it is ... God didn't prick the heart of the other stiffnecked people in Acts 7:54.

Umm.... here is another novel idea maybe one group accepted and one group rejected based on how the truth penetrated one groups conscience.

 

[HeIsHere]

You are dishonest in how you represent what other people have stated. And you have people able to get saved through the application of their conscience and will. You don't even need the Holy Spirit. This neither comports to the word of God or the reality of the condition of fallen man. The word of God alone is insufficient to salvation. To be born again requires water and Spirit. You have a man-centered view of salvation.

I have a Jesus centered view. You just do not like it.

The gift of salvation and all that comes with it ... is after all "through faith"

"Your faith has saved you"

Amen.

 

[HeIsHere]

And you have people able to get saved through the application of their conscience and will.

lol, I never stated this either.

 

[Rufus]

You should quit speaking of what you don't know and what you understand. The Cross of Christ and his Resurrection is central to the Gospel; for God's grace never came at the expense of divine justice! Jesus bore his Father's wrath and justice for the sake of his Father's glory and His elect chosen before the foundation of the world.

As I said, the message of the cross as propitiation for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2), where Christ tasted death for every man (Heb. 2:9) is foolishness to you. Your case is not hopeless. Jesus bought false prophets with his own blood. Many ex-calvinists left calvinism and continue to walk with Christ in deed and in truth. You can be a Christian without the folly of calvinism. I fell into calvinism for one month once, until I realised its many errors.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, Charlie Brown but that ain't what 1 Jn 2:2 is saying. The term "world" is used in the moral and limited sense, as I explained in some detail in 2091 and 2092.

 

[Magenta]

Ephesians 2:10

 

[HeIsHere]

That's because you, like Augustine, interpret the Bible in the light of Platonism, which

Can a slave of righteousness do anything other than righteousness, IYO ? Can a slave of sin do anything other than sin, IYO?

Carry on .. for those who are vulnerable, it is important.

 

[PaulThomson]

As I said, the message of the cross as propitiation for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2), where Christ tasted death for every man (Heb. 2:9) is foolishness to you. Your case is not hopeless. Jesus bought false prophets with his own blood. Many ex-calvinists left calvinism and continue to walk with Christ in deed and in truth. You can be a Christian without the folly of calvinism. I fell into calvinism for one month once, until I realised its many errors.

Sorry, Charlie Brown but that ain't what 1 Jn 2:2 is saying. The term "world" is used in the moral and limited sense, as I explained in some detail in 2091 and 2092.[/QUOTE]
As you asserted with lots of hand waving, but no exegesis.

 

[Cameron143]

I have a Jesus centered view. You just do not like it.

The gift of salvation and all that comes with it ... is after all "through faith"

"Your faith has saved you"

Amen.

Faith is a product of hearing and hearing is by the word of God. Salvation is and always will be by grace. True faith is evidence of salvation, but it doesn't save someone. It is the means God employs to save.
Jesus isn't countermanding what Paul would later explain in greater detail. He was actually acknowledging the work of God. If you recall, Jesus did miracles in response to faith and refrained when faith was absent. Why? Because He did always what He saw the Father doing. Faith is evidence of God at work since faith requires both the Spirit of God and the word of God.
This doesn't mean man doesn't have the capacity to exercise faith concerning other things. But it doesn't change the reality of what faith in God entails.

 

[Cameron143]

lol, I never stated this either.

What Jesus mean by your faith has saved you?

 

[Rufus]

I have a Jesus centered view. You just do not like it.

The gift of salvation and all that comes with it ... is after all "through faith"

"Your faith has saved you"

Amen.

Really? I guess I should bow down and worship faith then? And here all along I've been thinking Jesus saved me.

Acts 4:12
12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."
NIV

Was that name "faith'?

1 Cor 1:29-31
30 It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God — that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31 Therefore, as it is written: "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."
NIV

So the name of your lord is "faith"?

But then...we're not supposed to boast in ["our"] faith either.

Eph 2:8-9
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith — and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
NIV

But here you are boasting of faith as though you haven't received it from the hand of God.

And many professing Christians like to torture the above passage by saying the gift being talked about is grace and not faith. Therefore, it's prudent to consider this passage as well:

Phil 1:29
29 For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for him,
NIV

One more thing: Jesus made it crystal clear to Peter, after his confession of faith, that he did not come up with that knowledge on his own or by or through any mere mortal.

Matt 16:15-18
15 "But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?"

16 Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

17 Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.
NIV

Seems to me that Peter received a precious gift that was freely and sovereignly given by the Father.

You Shirley are confused here. You said above "I have a Jesus centered view" but then turn right around tell another poster that "YOUR" faith has saved you? Oy Vey! Did Jesus get it all wrong with Peter?

 

[Rufus]

I dont take kindly to that type of disrespect, pervert the Gospel? You just basically said if I dont agree with your fairly new interpretation of the Scriptures that I am accursed. Do you behave this way when you arent hiding behind a screen? I have my doubts.

When did I claim original sin is not true? I do believe in original sin. You said none desire to choose GOd, thats just plainly not true. Look at how many sincere yet incorrect believers there are, you think the mormons don't want to choose God? They do, they are just sincerely WRONG

In other words, cults like the Mormons "sincerely" seek after their gods -- but not the God who has revealed himself in his Word. Have you never heard the old adage that says, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions"?

When Paul in Rom 3 said that "No one seeks God", he didn't mean that the world at large didn't actively and sincerely seek after their versions of God -- and erect idols to them. To this day, the world is still quite religious.