Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

[studier]

So, he is still unregenerate and dead when He cries out for deliverance from this insidious virus pervertingb His life.

Just repeating.

Similar to some in the Exodus generation who cried out for freedom from slavery.

 

[studier]

9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

How do you interpret "when the commandment came"? In Paul's life the commandment was always there, from birth in a Jewish family under law.

 

[PaulThomson]

How do you interpret "when the commandment came"? In Paul's life the commandment was always there, from birth in a Jewish family under law.

There is a time in his life when the written moral code of a child's culture means nothing to the child. I would see when he first understands the difference between moral right and moral wrong as the commandment coming to him, and the temptation to disobey becomes a real moral choice.

 

[studier]

There is a time in his life when the written moral code of a child's culture means nothing to the child. I would see when he first understands the difference between moral right and moral wrong as the commandment coming to him, and the temptation to disobey becomes a real moral choice.

Pretty similar to my thoughts. There's some interesting work suggesting Paul's "I" is rhetorical.

 

[PaulThomson]

Thanks for your non-answer. If God has universally given all men the power to freely choose TO..., then would any man need to access God's power that works unto salvation? Don't you recall what you wrote?

Understanding one"s need to freely choose to submit to God's means of healing does not negate one's need to freely submit to God's means of healing..

 

[PaulThomson]

And what in the world do you think physical death is if not the separation of the soul from the body? Have you never read:

Luke 12:20
20 But God said to him, 'Fool! This night your soul is required of you, and the things you have prepared, whose will they be?'
ESV

Sl, when Paul says in Rom. 7 that sin was dead without the law, what was sinn separated from to be dead? and what did it become attached to to come to life?

 

[Cameron143]

Just repeating.

Similar to some in the Exodus generation who cried out for freedom from slavery.

It doesn't say they cry out for freedom or for God. It says God heard their cries which came by reason of their taskmasters. Also that He had seen the oppression...Exodus 3:7,9. It doesn't say they called upon the name of the Lord or cried out to God.

 

[HeIsHere]

That's fair. I respect your freedom to choose.

lol

 

[HeIsHere]

It all goes back to what the condition of fallen man actually is. Some don't think he's too bad. I disagree.

Is there a post where you cite scripture, exegeted by you which clearly states that fallen man is born morally incapable of responding to the Gospel message?

 

[Cameron143]

Is there a post where you cite scripture, exegeted by you which clearly states that fallen man is born morally incapable of responding to the Gospel message?

I never said that man cannot respond to the Gospel. Neither have I said man cannot understand the Gospel. Why do you ask me to do something I haven't claimed?

 

[HeIsHere]

I never said that man cannot respond to the Gospel. Neither have I said man cannot understand the Gospel. Why do you ask me to do something I haven't claimed?

Yes I know your position, however if a person needs to be given spiritual hearing/acted upon supernatural by God first then the underlying assumption is he cannot respond to the Gospel message unless he is given the ability.

So I am looking for a scripture, when not taken out of context and properly exegeted, clearly demonstrates this underlying tenet that the truth and power of the truth in the Gospel message is insufficient to persuade a person.

Take your time, lol.

 

[studier]

It doesn't say they cry out for freedom or for God. It says God heard their cries which came by reason of their taskmasters. Also that He had seen the oppression...Exodus 3:7,9. It doesn't say they called upon the name of the Lord or cried out to God.

You are correct. They cried out because of their oppressors, and their cry came to YHWH who came down to deliver them/set them free.

Do you agree that some of Israel feared God and that God was involved with them Ex1:17-20?

You'll note I didn't say they cried out to God.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[Cameron143]

Yes I know your position, however if a person needs to be given spiritual hearing/acted upon supernatural by God first then the underlying assumption is he cannot respond to the Gospel message unless he is given the ability.

So I am looking for a scripture, when not taken out of context and properly exegeted, clearly demonstrates this underlying tenet that the truth and power of the truth in the Gospel message is insufficient to persuade a person.

Take your time, lol.

This is your poor assumption.

Everyone responds in some way to the Gospel. They either believe it or reject it. This isn't difficult to establish from scripture.

Can you show me a place in scripture where salvation occurred where the activity of God is not present?

 

[Cameron143]

You are correct. They cried out because of their oppressors, and their cry came to YHWH who came down to deliver them/set them free.

Do you agree that some of Israel feared God and that God was involved with them Ex1:17-20?

You'll note I didn't say they cried out to God.

Thanks for the correction.

There is always a remnant in Israel that is of Israel who fear God and do not bend the knee. It is through these individuals that God is fulfilling His purposes and making known His ways.

 

[PaulThomson]

Nice theory but it doesn't work. Only the spiritual man with the Spirit of God has spiritual discernment. The natural man cannot understand the the things of God. How can he? God is the Source of all Wisdom, Knowledge and Understanding, and God-hating men t want no part of his truth, which is why don't seek Him. The world hates God and his Christ because the Godhead testifies that what the worlde does is evil (Jn 7:7)! And men don't care much for having their sins thrown into their faces.

THat's an awful theory, and not in the Bible.

 

[studier]

There is always a remnant in Israel that is of Israel who fear God and do not bend the knee. It is through these individuals that God is fulfilling His purposes and making known His ways.

So that reads like a, yes.

Thanks.

 

[Genez]

This concept was not known to theologians centuries ago to consider to illustrate with.

Man has demonstrated in recent years that an otherwise dead person can be put on life support.
External power is provided to keep the an otherwise dead person alive.

Likewise... By means of the Holy Spirit's power (God's grace) God places the dead unbeliever on life
support while drawing him. In doing do, forces life to manifest where it would not normally be seen.

God takes up the slack for the lack of regeneration and allows a human soul to bypass the flesh.
In that state (all mentality level) a soul will be shown thoughts to consider in the privacy of his own mind.
It private and the person simply thinks he is having a thought of his own, which gives him total freedom to
quietly consider what he thinks of a matter God is presenting.

God even demonstrates that ability with even the born again Christian!

For we have been crucified with Christ! Dead! Our body is dead as far as God is concerned.
And, the life we now live? Its to be in in Christ... That life? He is the Word being understood
by us, and the Holy Spirit is the power for our life to live that Word =- faith.

Its just breaking it down to see what is taking place.

If someone needs chapter and verse for anything specific I said?
Just ask...


grace and peace .............

 

[studier]

THat's an awful theory, and not in the Bible.

The continuing misinterpretation of 1Cor2-3 plus others.

 

[Cameron143]

So that reads like a, yes.

Thanks.

Sorry. Yes.

 

[studier]

a soul will be shown thoughts to consider in the privacy of his own mind.

In a discussion with a friend in seminary, he once started with, "where does a thought come from?"

I was listening to a guy recently who by no means professes Christ, but through a lot of introspection he had come to the point of realizing that the best version of himself is found in not taking the advice of his first 4-5 thoughts. When you understand this about him, it's fascinating to watch his delayed processes in discussions at times.

Most Christians would benefit from such a process to make certain they know who and what they are listening to.

If you want to lay out the Scriptures, I'll look at them.