Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR
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Yes, John 17:3 is about our having an intimate - a close personal relationship - with our Father and our first-born brother and Lord.
There's a similar concept of intimate relationship here:
30 For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones.
31 "For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh."
32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. (Eph. 5:30-32 NKJ)
Time to grow up young lady and seek some spiritual maturity in understanding His Word.
A.W. Pink in that article of his that I posted maintained that men in Adam have no spiritual ability because they don't want to understand, learn, seek after God, repent, believe, etc. It's just not in their spiritual DNA. Here's a passage I came across in Proverbs that essentially teaches this truth in a pithy way that only a godly word of wisdom could:
Prov 29:19
19 A servant cannot be corrected by mere words;
though he understands, he will not respond.
NIV
In other words, it's because "he will not respond" that he cannot be corrected by mere words. But even more than this: It's because he will not respond, it can also be said that he doesn't truly understand. He understands with his head -- but not with his heart. Head knowledge is one thing; heart knowledge, however, is very different because when all the faculties are engaged the whole man is affected. And this truth accounts for why so much is written about man's heart in scripture.
Prov 29:19
19 A servant cannot be corrected by mere words;
though he understands, he will not respond.
NIV
In other words, it's because "he will not respond" that he cannot be corrected by mere words. But even more than this: It's because he will not respond, it can also be said that he doesn't truly understand. He understands with his head -- but not with his heart. Head knowledge is one thing; heart knowledge, however, is very different because when all the faculties are engaged the whole man is affected. And this truth accounts for why so much is written about man's heart in scripture.
The Gospel of Jesus Christ is now "mere words". Well, there we have it, TULIP is proven.
Then there is this about [spiritual] understanding of the righteous:
Ps 119:104
104 I gain understanding from your precepts [or Word of God];
therefore I hate every wrong path.
NIV
And it's also written of the wicked:
Ps 119:155
155 Salvation is far from the wicked,
for they do not seek out your decrees [or Word of God].
So...this inquiring mind must ask: How does Natural Man (God-hating wicked) come to all this spiritual understanding when they obviously don't seek God's truth out any more than they supposedly have the power to seek Him out? It's only those who "hate every wrong path" who are moved to learn from the scriptures to gain understanding. But how can lovers of darkness hate every evil way when the reason they love the darkness is because their ways are evil?
It seems like the Natural Man is in a horrible Catch-22 type dilemma. He must seek spiritual understanding from the Source (since he's not born with it!); yet the Word tells us that the wicked, evidently, have no heart for God's decrees which is why they don't seek God's Word. Can anyone spell HELPLESS? But not to the twisted reasonings of the truth-rejectors on this thread! Man is NOT helpless! Not by a long shot! God has endowed dead men with all kinds of super powers. They can even raise themselves from the dead!
Ps 119:104
104 I gain understanding from your precepts [or Word of God];
therefore I hate every wrong path.
NIV
And it's also written of the wicked:
Ps 119:155
155 Salvation is far from the wicked,
for they do not seek out your decrees [or Word of God].
So...this inquiring mind must ask: How does Natural Man (God-hating wicked) come to all this spiritual understanding when they obviously don't seek God's truth out any more than they supposedly have the power to seek Him out? It's only those who "hate every wrong path" who are moved to learn from the scriptures to gain understanding. But how can lovers of darkness hate every evil way when the reason they love the darkness is because their ways are evil?
It seems like the Natural Man is in a horrible Catch-22 type dilemma. He must seek spiritual understanding from the Source (since he's not born with it!); yet the Word tells us that the wicked, evidently, have no heart for God's decrees which is why they don't seek God's Word. Can anyone spell HELPLESS? But not to the twisted reasonings of the truth-rejectors on this thread! Man is NOT helpless! Not by a long shot! God has endowed dead men with all kinds of super powers. They can even raise themselves from the dead!
Your perverted understanding aside... it remains that Jesus didn't bring to his ministry just Truth. He brought Truth and Grace! And you always seem to conveniently forget that a man must be born of the Truth and the Spirit. It's not an either/or thingy, comprende?
A half-truth is not the truth!
Yes, I've got it. Born again so he can believe because he's a corpse. Understood.
Flows very well with Jesus sending the Spirit to work in the world rounding up God's elect and regenerating them so they could believe while passing over the knucklehead non-elect. Now I understand what Jesus meant when He explained the Spirit's activities in John 16.
Thanks!
No. One tells of physical intimacy and the other spiritual intimacy.
As much time as you spend on Romans 1, I'm surprised you don't understand that the unseen things are known by the things that are. It doesn't have a range of meaning. It's the same meaning applied spiritually.
And the 2 becoming one flesh doesn't mix concepts of marital physical intimacy with spiritual intimacy to teach us to some degree how deep this relationship goes in terms of a level of intimacy we can relate to?
This goes back a ways before the post I responded to. I'm not going to explain it and it wasn't pointed at you or magenta.
And BTW, the salvation event was truly astounding, to the point it's virtually impossible to attach enough superlatives to. But our entering into the relationship is not what the fully developed relationship becomes. He loves us perfectly, but we have to grow in love as, for example, Paul speaks of in Eph3.
Because in your understanding, all are His sheep and hear? And that would make God fair in your view?
How can any equate knowing God exists with understanding and accepting the gospel?
Knowing/believing there is a God does not even equate to believing it is the God of the Bible...
Some do not reject the existence of God. Some do.
Which do you think might be better prepared to hear the Gospel.
Knowing & understanding and accepting what the one true God has made clear in them - His eternal power, divinity and judgment - does not equate to belief in His existence?
We do not have to know when Abraham saw His day when the Bible tells us he was shown....
But, when the Lord showed Abraham all the vast lands he would someday be the father of?
Genesis 13:14-17.
What Abraham was shown will not take place until Jesus has his day and rules the world!
So.. in that sense. Abraham saw His day.
Though I probably shouldn't ask, but you did say you're not Calvinist or Arminian (as I recall) so maybe you won't share their views, in John 10 how did the sheep become Jesus's sheep?
If you freely choose to answer, would you please also explain John 10:37-38?
Thanks.
Non sequitur. And totally irrelevant to what I said.
Neither. It is foolishness to them whichever category they fall into.
Eh. Not what I said at all. You have a dearth of comprehension.
I don't see much point in discussing anything with you. See above.
PS ~ nor am I here to explain myself to you. Get over it already.
Much better.
Knowing God exists [and not rejecting that knowledge] can equate to being better prepared to hear and learn and receive from God the Good News Message from God about God's Son.
I see relevance between the 2. If you think differently, and were actually prepared to discuss the matter, you wouldn't cut and run.
How so?
I comprehend from actually working in Scripture, some of which work I openly presented for scrutiny, that:
- God Himself has made certain men clearly know and understand that He exists and has made certain of His attributes clearly known and understood.
- God has not confused Himself with some god.
- God has made this information such that men have no excuse for rejecting Him.
- No excuse would have to include an excuse that they didn't know it was Him.
That's fair. I respect your freedom to choose.
But I will and have challenged your assertions and allegations. And I may from time to time challenge what I think you're wrong about.
It all goes back to what the condition of fallen man actually is. Some don't think he's too bad. I disagree.