There will be no Rapture!!!

[sawdust]

That seems odd because even Jesus proclaims in Matthew 24 that after Tribulation ends He comes in the [clouds] and sends His Angels to ""gather the Elect."" He even said [and then all the tribes of the land will mourn, and they will see ‘the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven] <--- this happens before the Gathering.

So, if Jesus is in the clouds, it's at the "END of Tribulation," and the Elect are gathered by the Angels....aren't they bringing what the Elect they Gather to where Jesus is at...[in the clouds]?

I'm not of any of the "tribes of the land", that would be Israel. There are no "tribes of the land" in the Church (Gal.3:28). I should have clarified too, those entering the Millennium are those who are still alive at the end of the tribulation, those who "endured till the end". As best as I understand, those martyred during the Trib and Israelites of the past (Moses, David etc), will be resurrected at the end of the Tribulation. The "gathering" are those I just mentioned for when Jesus rose from the grave, He emptied Paradise of those saints and took them back to heaven with Him. So when He returns to Earth to rule (Your Kingdom on Earth as it is in Heaven), they will be with Him because this was the promise to Israel, to be the "head and not the tail" (Deut.28:13). Also, "the clouds" are not Jesus' residence, that's his cool mode of transport. If memory serves me correctly, the are places in the OT where He comes in/on a cloud to speak to people.

As far as "coming on/in the clouds", I believe this is the fulfillment of what the angel said in Acts 1:9-11

9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, 11 who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”

I don't see that as looking like us "meeting Him in the air". There's no talk of descending for one thing in our meeting with Him. The only things they have in common is a gathering of the saints. In Thessalonians it is a gathering of the Church age saints and in Matthew it is a gathering of Jewish saints.

1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

 

[sawdust]

Ok. This is how I understand it so, what doesn't make sense to me is that his bride will be somewhere else, since I understand that he goes to prepare a place for them so that where He is they can be also.

They're not really somewhere else. He is Lord of Heaven and Earth. As the Psalmist said "where can I go".

Psalm 139:7
Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence?

The Church is destined to rule alongside her Husband and there is to be a New Heavens and Earth. It makes sense to me that some of the Church will reside on Earth like a diplomat does in an Embassy and others from the Church will reside in heaven. But wherever we may live to carry out our roles, our home is still Heaven.

 

[Genez]

They're not really somewhere else. He is Lord of Heaven and Earth. As the Psalmist said "where can I go".

Psalm 139:7
Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence?

The Church is destined to rule alongside her Husband and there is to be a New Heavens and Earth. It makes sense to me that some of the Church will reside on Earth like a diplomat does in an Embassy and others from the Church will reside in heaven. But wherever we may live to carry out our roles, our home is still Heaven.

We must be given a new body to experience the peace we will know..... in Heaven.

 

[sawdust]

We must be given a new body to experience the peace we will know..... in Heaven.

I had a moment in my life when facing possible imminent death from an exploding car that had caught on fire where I experienced a supernatural peace. If that experience is even a fraction of what peace in heaven is like in a new body? WOW!!! Sign me up for eternity.

 

[Genez]

I had a moment in my life when facing possible imminent death from an exploding car that had caught on fire where I experienced a supernatural peace. If that experience is even a fraction of what peace in heaven is like in a new body? WOW!!! Sign me up for eternity.

Had something similar happen...... understood.

 

[Clayman]

Many say Satan’s deception in the garden is why we all have a fallen nature, so we tend to use that as an excuse for making bad choices. What if God created a situation (the Millinium)
and removed Satan as an excuse, as a lesson to those who blame anyone but themselves?

I also see it as what if God removed Satan in the 2000yr period and the 1000yr period, we then can see that sin and its desire or hold on us is the same for one and all, those who love the world and the pleasures thereof reject the truth, end up exactly like Satan and follow his path to become rejecters of Christ, and a lesson for all that there is no one to blame but themselves.

 

[Mem]

They're not really somewhere else. He is Lord of Heaven and Earth. As the Psalmist said "where can I go".

Psalm 139:7
Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence?

The Church is destined to rule alongside her Husband and there is to be a New Heavens and Earth. It makes sense to me that some of the Church will reside on Earth like a diplomat does in an Embassy and others from the Church will reside in heaven. But wherever we may live to carry out our roles, our home is still Heaven.

Scripture tells us "our citizenship is in heaven," and "the kingdom is within you," and so, as I view it, our being "therefore Christ's ambassadors" in this world is about greeting 'worldings' (as opposed to "greetings earthling' as such an Martian might say) followed by a persuasion to come out of the world and enter into the kingdom (all without having to leave earth) as per 2 Cor 5:11 "...we try to persuade men...".

I also see it as what if God removed Satan in the 2000yr period and the 1000yr period, we then can see that sin and its desire or hold on us is the same for one and all, those who love the world and the pleasures thereof reject the truth, end up exactly like Satan and follow his path to become rejecters of Christ, and a lesson for all that there is no one to blame but themselves.

This seems to me to be the most logical conclusion. Satan is bound for a thousand years, and Jesus rules a thousand years and then Satan is loosed for a short time so, it logically follows that Michael binds the dragon and casts him into the pit in order that 'he the lets (does not continue to do so until) he his taken out of the way.
I know that the 'generally accepted understanding' among the majority of modern escotological [sic] conclusion of the mentioned excerpt is that the Holy Spirit is 'taken out of the way' (with the way of Satan's total reign being assumed there so that he can rule unhindered) but, it seem clear to me that it is the the false prophet, the antichrist, and the dragon that is 'taken out of the way (of hindering an understanding of the truth) at which event of the dragon is bound a thousand years.

 

[Genez]

Scripture tells us "our citizenship is in heaven," and "the kingdom is within you," .

Given the time frame in which Jesus spoke his words, “the kingdom of God is in the midst of you” refers to his being the King and that he was in their midst.

 

[Mem]

Given the time frame in which Jesus spoke his words, “the kingdom of God is in the midst of you” refers to his being the King and that he was in their midst.

Ok, I'll go with that. So, why couldn't say then, when the time come that Christ reigns on earth in the millennium, that His kingdom has come?

 

[Mem]

That seems odd because even Jesus proclaims in Matthew 24 that after Tribulation ends He comes in the [clouds] and sends His Angels to ""gather the Elect."" He even said [and then all the tribes of the land will mourn, and they will see ‘the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven] <--- this happens before the Gathering.

So, if Jesus is in the clouds, it's at the "END of Tribulation," and the Elect are gathered by the Angels....aren't they bringing what the Elect they Gather to where Jesus is at...[in the clouds]?

"and together (with the resurrected dead in Christ) we will meet the Lord in the air" ...this looks to me that the 'air is cleared,' at this point, of the 'lord of the air,' and '....the kingdom of this world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ, and He will reign forever and ever (Rev 11:15b)>" If not shortly before of at that very particular moment, most certainly very imminently.

 

[sawdust]

Scripture tells us "our citizenship is in heaven," and "the kingdom is within you," and so, as I view it, our being "therefore Christ's ambassadors" in this world is about greeting 'worldings' (as opposed to "greetings earthling' as such an Martian might say) followed by a persuasion to come out of the world and enter into the kingdom (all without having to leave earth) as per 2 Cor 5:11 "...we try to persuade men...".

Ok, I'll go with that. So, why couldn't say then, when the time come that Christ reigns on earth in the millennium, that His kingdom has come?

It has come at that time (Millennium) but we are ambassadors this side of the Resurrection. On the other side, we are rulers with Christ.

 

[Mem]

It has come at that time (Millennium) but we are ambassadors this side of the Resurrection. On the other side, we are rulers with Christ.

I don't disagree there. I just disagree in that we will be (split up) in heaven while He is ruling (with some of us) on the earth during the Millenium.

 

[Genez]

I don't disagree there. I just disagree in that we will be (split up) in heaven while He is ruling (with some of us) on the earth during the Millenium.

When soldiers go to war to protect their wives and family back home?
Is that splitting up the families?

Not everyone is going to qualify to reign with Christ.
Likewise, not everyone qualifies for military service.
Only those who qualify will reign with Christ.....

 

[Mem]

When soldiers go to war to protect their wives and family back home?
Is that splitting up the families?

Not everyone is going to qualify to reign with Christ.
Likewise, not everyone qualifies for military service.
Only those who qualify will reign with Christ.....

Do you mean to say that the bride of Christ has flat feet?

 

[sawdust]

I don't disagree there. I just disagree in that we will be (split up) in heaven while He is ruling (with some of us) on the earth during the Millenium.

I don't see it as being split up. As I said Christ is Lord of heaven and earth. As His bride we rule with Him in heaven and earth. We are spread out, not split up.

 

[Mem]

I don't see it as being split up. As I said Christ is Lord of heaven and earth. As His bride we rule with Him in heaven and earth. We are spread out, not split up.

Genez mentioned soldiers going to war to protect their wives and family 'back home' but that is using an analogy wherein the wives and family in fear for their lives, and God 'hath not given us a spirit of fear but of love and of a sound mind," and Jesus is envisioned to destroy His enemies by a two-edged sword that proceeds out of his mouth. The two-edged sword is "an idiom that describes something that has both positive and negative effects or consequences (dictionary.com)." That is, our Lord can both destroy and protect with the two-edged sword that proceeds from His mouth so there's no need to "squirrel us away" for safe keeping once we are either resurrected or changed in the twinkling of an eye (to die no more since the second death has no power over those counted in the first resurrection). What you bind on earth, heaven backs and the same goes with what is loosed on earth. I point that we need to be kept away from the 'action' until it is safe to 'come out' goes totally over my head. It's a mindset that is much too lofty for me to grasp, I guess.

 

[Genez]

Genez mentioned soldiers going to war to protect their wives and family 'back home' but that is using an analogy wherein the wives and family in fear for their lives,

Not under direct attack as you portray.

They are to remain home, secure in the Lord, PRAYING for the soldiers.
That happens if they are not ignorant of the truth needed to be so.

What are you after?

 

[sawdust]

Genez mentioned soldiers going to war to protect their wives and family 'back home' but that is using an analogy wherein the wives and family in fear for their lives, and God 'hath not given us a spirit of fear but of love and of a sound mind," and Jesus is envisioned to destroy His enemies by a two-edged sword that proceeds out of his mouth. The two-edged sword is "an idiom that describes something that has both positive and negative effects or consequences (dictionary.com)." That is, our Lord can both destroy and protect with the two-edged sword that proceeds from His mouth so there's no need to "squirrel us away" for safe keeping once we are either resurrected or changed in the twinkling of an eye (to die no more since the second death has no power over those counted in the first resurrection). What you bind on earth, heaven backs and the same goes with what is loosed on earth. I point that we need to be kept away from the 'action' until it is safe to 'come out' goes totally over my head. It's a mindset that is much too lofty for me to grasp, I guess.

I think you may have missed the point of his analogy. He was using it to show how not everyone is qualified to go into battle. In the same way, not every believer is qualified to have the level of authority that will be required to rule nations. Just because the Church as His Bride will rule with Him, it doesn't mean every believer will be given the same degree of authority in the Resurrection. This is why we must be evaluated before Christ's judgement seat. You see this principle at work in Matthew 20:20-23. Jesus didn't say there wouldn't be some more prominent than others, He said that is for God to decide who is given authority and how much even in the Resurrection.

Matthew 20:23
So He said to them, “You will indeed drink My cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with; but to sit on My right hand and on My left is not Mine to give, but it is for those for whom it is prepared by My Father.”

Real freedom results in inequality, not in making the differences between us the same. This current push for equality of outcome is a sure fire way to enslave people.

You will note they didn't call it "Diversity, Inclusion and Equity" policy. The results of such thinking is in the acronym.

 

[Mem]

Not under direct attack as you portray.

They are to remain home, secure in the Lord, PRAYING for the soldiers.
That happens if they are not ignorant of the truth needed to be so.

What are you after?

Not under direct attack as you portray.

They are to remain home, secure in the Lord, PRAYING for the soldiers.
That happens if they are not ignorant of the truth needed to be so.

What are you after?

Do you believe that I'm after something?

 

[Mem]

I think you may have missed the point of his analogy. He was using it to show how not everyone is qualified to go into battle. In the same way, not every believer is qualified to have the level of authority that will be required to rule nations. Just because the Church as His Bride will rule with Him, it doesn't mean every believer will be given the same degree of authority in the Resurrection. This is why we must be evaluated before Christ's judgement seat. You see this principle at work in Matthew 20:20-23. Jesus didn't say there wouldn't be some more prominent than others, He said that is for God to decide who is given authority and how much even in the Resurrection.

Matthew 20:23
So He said to them, “You will indeed drink My cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with; but to sit on My right hand and on My left is not Mine to give, but it is for those for whom it is prepared by My Father.”

Real freedom results in inequality, not in making the differences between us the same. This current push for equality of outcome is a sure fire way to enslave people.

You will note they didn't call it "Diversity, Inclusion and Equity" policy. The results of such thinking is in the acronym.

Neat story about me missing his point. I didn't miss it as much as it missed me, entirely. And I can hardly note any policy that's been categorically made up.