Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

[selahsays]

I am asking that you prove to yourself that you have the free will to show honor, respect, and dignity, and stop writing to me.

You keep saying you’re leaving … but you never do.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Which means God's MASTER PLAN included everything up to the First Advent and after it. God didn't "write" just part of the script.

You are accusing God, who Inspired Paul to call His Own creation of mankind His Offspring, to be charged with sending the majority of them to Hell. You much rather take that position over that Jesus was a special occasion. You tell on yourself all of the time.

 

[selahsays]

The first definition of "decree" is: "to command or enjoin by or as if by decree. 2. to determine or order. Ordain." Just sayin'...

So what’s your point exactly? Just askin’.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

God does not command men to sin. If He leaves them to their own desires - they are prone to do evil all by themselves.

But yet, God did this to many men:

27 Indeed Herod and Pontius Pilate met together with the Gentiles and the people of Israel in this city to conspire against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed.
28 They did what your power and will had decided beforehand should happen.

Herod
Pilate
Gentiles
People of Israel
ALL conspired against Jesus
They did what your power and will had decided beforehand should happen

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

People seem to think God only does Good, but what He does is His WILL:

23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets; and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.'

 

[BillyBob]

But yet, God did this to many men:

27 Indeed Herod and Pontius Pilate met together with the Gentiles and the people of Israel in this city to conspire against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed.
28 They did what your power and will had decided beforehand should happen.

Herod
Pilate
Gentiles
People of Israel
ALL conspired against Jesus
They did what your power and will had decided beforehand should happen

These people were all sinners. They did what their heart desired - totally on their own without God's help. If He had helped, if He had given them a new heart - this would not happen. He allowed it to bring about his plan! His plan will not fail.........

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

These people were all sinners. They did what their heart desired - totally on their own without God's help. If He had helped, if He had given them a new heart - this would not happen. He allowed it to bring about his plan! His plan will not fail.........

They did what God made them do. Just like God made sure a king died by believing a LIE:

23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets; and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.'

 

[Rufus]

Sure it does. We chose to accept God's offer or reject it.
We have that ability.

But the will under the bondage of its sin nature WILL only choose to reject. Free will, according how NR understand, is a pure myth. See my 8320. You have no biblical concept of "freedom" whatsoever.

 

[BillyBob]

They did what God made them do. Just like God made sure a king died by believing a LIE:

23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets; and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.'

He did not make them do it! He allowed them to do it. Don't try to put these evil acts on God!

 

[Rufus]

No it doesn't. Jesus has decreed many things that did not come to pass. He decreed the destruction of Nineveh in 40 days. He decreed that he would destroy all the Israelites and make of Moses a great nation to replace them. God's decrees are to motivate people to repentance and faith. He changes or follows through on His decrees depending on how men respond to His decrees.

Give chapters and verses to your above claims, please.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

He did not make them do it! He allowed them to do it. Don't try to put these evil acts on God!

Ultimately God killed Jesus. How He did it He made men do it because it had to be done.

Had they not done it you would not be saved.

God made it so Jesus died. Be thankful for your salvation.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

But the will under the bondage of its sin nature WILL only choose to reject. Free will, according how NR understand, is a pure myth. See my 8320. You have no biblical concept of "freedom" whatsoever.

We are only yielding to God or pushing away. Nothing more. Jesus said people hear His words and are able to receive them or reject them. The Gospel is Jesus Words.

 

[PaulThomson]

Far More importantly...it's pure, unadulterated, undiluted scripture!

And what else can the spiritually dead think about "from birth"? After all, we were all born in darkness when we entered this world. Sin isn't merely second nature to us; it IS our nature! Evil is what we ARE!

SO, are we Totally Depravity? Or Imperfect in every Facet of our being (Omni-faceted Imperfection)?

Are we like not good apples that have some rotten parts, but have some good useable parts? or are we like absolutely completely rotten apples, with no good useable parts at all?

Scripture says that those who are evil know how to give good gifts to their children. Could a totally corrupt person do that?

 

[BillyBob]

I am asking that you prove to yourself that you have the free will to show honor, respect, and dignity, and stop writing to me.

Do not stop posting due to what others claim. I have learned from reading your posts and wish to see you contribute.

 

[Rufus]

Make your argument using only Biblical terms from biblical texts. Don't try to smuggle unbiblical terms into the Bible by employing premises that are not biblical to reason your way to a claim that you may substitute your terms defined your way for biblical terms that mean something else in scripture. .

So you were not able to read the passages I cited and make the connection to sovereignty. Choose one of the passages I cited and make your case against God's sovereignty.

 

[Rufus]

SO, are we Totally Depravity? Or Imperfect in every Facet of our being (Omni-faceted Imperfection)?

Are we like not good apples that have some rotten parts, but have some good useable parts? or are we like absolutely completely rotten apples, with no good useable parts at all?

Scripture says that those who are evil know how to give good gifts to their children. Could a totally corrupt person do that?

Jesus said there ain't no good apples in this world.

 

[MerSee]

"Since all souls belong to God (Ezek 18:4), does he not have a right to do with them as he pleases,?"

Yes. But it does not please Him to show favoritism/partiality.
Romans 2:11 ESV / 1,659 helpful votes
For God shows no partiality.
James 2:1 ESV / 1,562 helpful votes
My brothers, show no partiality as you hold the faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory.
Acts 10:34 ESV / 1,307 helpful votes
So Peter opened his mouth and said: “Truly I understand that God shows no partiality,
Galatians 3:28 ESV / 1,268 helpful votes
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Leviticus 19:15 ESV / 1,238 helpful votes
“You shall do no injustice in court. You shall not be partial to the poor or defer to the great, but in righteousness shall you judge your neighbor.
James 2:4 ESV / 1,177 helpful votes
Have you not then made distinctions among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?
1 Timothy 5:21 ESV / 1,162 helpful votes
In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of the elect angels I charge you to keep these rules without prejudging, doing nothing from partiality.
Acts 10:34-35 ESV / 1,093 helpful votes
So Peter opened his mouth and said: “Truly I understand that God shows no partiality, but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.
Proverbs 28:21 ESV / 1,022 helpful votes
To show partiality is not good, but for a piece of bread a man will do wrong.
Deuteronomy 10:17 ESV / 1,007 helpful votes
For the Lord your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God, who is not partial and takes no bribe.
James 2:1-4 ESV / 914 helpful votes
My brothers, show no partiality as you hold the faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory. For if a man wearing a gold ring and fine clothing comes into your assembly, and a poor man in shabby clothing also comes in, and if you pay attention to the one who wears the fine clothing and say, “You sit here in a good place,” while you say to the poor man, “You stand over there,” or, “Sit down at my feet,” have you not then made distinctions among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?
Acts 10:35 ESV / 882 helpful votes
But in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.
Romans 1:16 ESV / 878 helpful votes
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
James 2:9 ESV / 861 helpful votes
But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
Jude 1:16 ESV / 852 helpful votes
These are grumblers, malcontents, following their own sinful desires; they are loud-mouthed boasters, showing favoritism to gain advantage.
James 3:17 ESV / 849 helpful votes
But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and sincere.

"Or are you jealous of his magnificent generosity with many (Mat 20:15)?
No. But His generosity is not partial. His generously and genuinely offers reconciliation to all, not a select few.

"Or does not the Potter have the right to make from one lump of clay some pots for noble purposes and others for common use (Rom 9:21)?"
Yes. He designates each pot for use impartially, according to the same criteria for all.

The elect are God's favorites.

 

[PaulThomson]

And so what part "worketh all things after the counsel of his own will", don't you understand? He works nothing after the counsel of any of his creatures' will. And you clearly didn't understand that God does all things for his own Name's sake and for his OWN Glory. Which means he does nothing for the sake of his creatures.

And you ignored my question: What would compel or induce a thrice holy God to be partial to any of his sinful creatures since there isn't any good in any of us?

What if His will is to work cooperatively and personally and relationally with His creatures, and to take the ideas and responses of His creatures into account as history advances, as He did with Moses interceding for the Israelites and changing God's mind about destroying them and starting again with Moses ? Then He would still be doing all things according to the counsel of His will, but operating contingently. The God you describe is extremely self-obsessed and narcissistic. Why would someone insist on imagining a God like that for themself?

 

[MerSee]

Since God's will is never contingent on any of his creatures (Eph 1:11) , how can he show any "partiality"? He does ALL things for his OWN glory and for the sake of his OWN Name -- and not for the sake of any creature. To be "partial", by definition, means to be inclined to favor one party more than the other; or to be markedly fond of someone or something. Yet, scripture does not teach that God does this. It teaches precisely what I just said earlier (see Isa 48:9-11; Jer 13:11; Ps 106:7-8; Sam 12:22; Ezek 36:22-23; Eph 1:4-6, etc., etc.).

And besides, all this, what would possibly induce God to be biased or partial to any sinful creature? Don''t you know there is NOTHING good in man? So what would entice a thrice holy God to favor one vile man over another? Their good looks? Color of their skin? Dynamic personality? (On second thought though...He did save the Woman...but the Man not so much...Hmm...)

I posted on the Glory of God previously. Evidently, you didn't have ears to hear then...and you probably won't now either.

OBEDIENCE!

 

[MerSee]

I am confident that saints will be able to want whatever they want to want in the age to come and beyond. Keep in mind that the cross is a perpetual sacrifice. It avails forever under the terms of an endless covenant..

Only the elect are ever saints.