Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

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cv5

cv5

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According to the super-determinists, this is yet another cruel fraud, le and hoax perpetrated upon the entirely doomed race of men.

But the fact is.....that God HIDES things SO THAT WE MAY FIND THEM AND LIVE.
Seeking and finding is part of Gods perfect plan of Salvation. Like it or not.

Amo 5:4
For thus saith the LORD unto the house of Israel, Seek ye me, and ye shall live:

Deu 4:29
But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.

Mat 7:7
Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
 
Magenta

Magenta

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FollowerofShiloh said:
I never said these people had no choice in the matter.
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Oh yes you did.

FollowerofShiloh said:
Because they had NO CHOICE but to do it!
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FollowerofShiloh said:
They had no choice but to do it even if they did not want to do it.
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FollowerofShiloh said:
they had no choice but to do it.
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FollowerofShiloh said:
You are arguing based on a single word
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I am pointing out that no such command is given by God in the Bible, and you refuse to admit it.
You say they had no choice but that does not mean they had no choice in your estimation.
No choice to you means their will was still free. Your position is quite untenable.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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cv5 said:
The typically erroneous and wholly ignorant response. God DOES NOT NEED to trample on the will of unbelieving men.

The fact is that omniscient God has EVERY CONTINGENCY, every providential solution, every countermeasure strategy PREPARED before the foundation of the world.......in terms of His plan of salvation as it relates to those who believe Him and put their trust in Him.

The rest? Judgement/separation. Sooner or later. Which puts an end to THEIR evil will as it affects His creation.

Presently, the evil will of evil entities IS ALLOWED to manifest. But not forever.
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Much of what you say here is true, but to deny that God acts unilaterally in the affairs of men is simply not true. Just read Daniel 4:35.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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Cameron143 said:
Much of what you say here is true, but to deny that God acts unilaterally in the affairs of men is simply not true. Just read Daniel 4:35.
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Now listen here, Cameron, do you not know that these people circumcized their own hearts and ears, unblinded their
own selves, and made themselves alive while they were yet dead, since they needed no help whatsoever from God???
 
S

studier

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Apr 18, 2024
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Magenta said:
Now listen here, Cameron, do you not know that these people circumcized their own hearts and ears, unblinded their
own selves, and made themselves alive while they were yet dead, since they needed no help whatsoever from God???
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Mischaracterizations actually lose arguments, not win them.

Are we going to continue discussing free will?
 
Magenta

Magenta

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studier said:
Mischaracterizations actually lose arguments, not win them.

Are we going to continue discussing free will?
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Yeah, you talk as if WE have not been talking about the natural man all along and go all back slapping happy as if you mischaracterize nothing when you have falsely accused me of that before. You on the one hand admit you have not read all my posts but on the other hand want to act as if you know everything others have said on this matter when you obviously do not. Your lack of comprehension is appalling.
 
cv5

cv5

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Magenta said:
Yeah, you talk as if WE have not been talking about the natural man all along and go all back slapping happy as if you mischaracterize nothing when you have falsely accused me of that before. You on the one hand admit you have not read all my posts but on the other hand want to act as if you know everything others have said on this matter when you obviously do not. Your lack of comprehension is appalling.
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Whatever/depite what you think......you are on the losing team.
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

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I went through past 50 or so pages and see NOWHERE that anyone ever claimed they could circumcise their own hearts and ears, unblinded their own selves, and made themselves alive while they were yet dead.

All I have read is people are able to yield or reject, the same as the Bible claims.

No one has ever claimed that God doesn't do everything.

They only claim they are given the ability to accept or reject. Which is 100% Bible.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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FollowerofShiloh said:
I went through past 50 or so pages and see NOWHERE that anyone ever claimed they could circumcise their own hearts and ears, unblinded their own selves, and made themselves alive while they were yet dead.

All I have read is people are able to yield or reject, the same as the Bible claims.

No one has ever claimed that God doesn't do everything.

They only claim they are given the ability to accept or reject. Which is 100% Bible.
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We are to believe you read 1,000 plus posts in a few minutes? I for one do not believe you. Why would you
think it necessarily in this thread that someone has intimated they needed no help from God at all, anyways?

FollowerofShiloh said:
I never said these people had no choice in the matter.
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FollowerofShiloh said:
Their Free Will was definitely removed.
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Here's another one...
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

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Magenta said:
We are to believe you read 1,000 plus posts in a few minutes? I for one do not believe you. Why would you
think it necessarily in this thread that someone has intimated they needed no help from God at all, anyways?



Here's another one...
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It's pretty easy to skim pages and it was right after your post until my post which is roughly 20+ minutes.
I read the first couple words and can tell if it's about Free Will or not.

And Pilate, Pharisee/Sadducees, Herod are a special situation made just for Jesus.

I hate when people take special things to fulfill a specific plan of God and turn that into all of the time.

The Bible proves that does not happen that way.

A special thing like Jesus dying for Sins only happens ONE TIME EVER!
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

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#8,193
FollowerofShiloh said:
I went through past 50 or so pages and see NOWHERE that anyone ever claimed they could circumcise their own hearts and ears, unblinded their own selves, and made themselves alive while they were yet dead.

All I have read is people are able to yield or reject, the same as the Bible claims.

No one has ever claimed that God doesn't do everything.

They only claim they are given the ability to accept or reject. Which is 100% Bible.
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Seems as though the message of the Gospel, the power of the message is being nullified.

No where does scripture state that the Gospel message is incomprehensible to people, IT IS comprehensible and they reject or accept it.
Not a difficult concept.
After they accept is when other supernatural events occur, again not rocket science.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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HeIsHere said:
Seems as though the message of the Gospel, the power of the message is being nullified.

No where does scripture state that the Gospel message is incomprehensible to people, IT IS comprehensible and they reject or accept it.
Not a difficult concept.
After they accept is when other supernatural events occur, again not rocket science.
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Sure, not rocket science that the natural man thinks the gospel message foolishness.


1 Corinthians 2:12 + 14
:)
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

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HeIsHere said:
Seems as though the message of the Gospel, the power of the message is being nullified.

No where does scripture state that the Gospel message is incomprehensible to people, IT IS comprehensible and they reject or accept it.
Not a difficult concept.
After they accept is when other supernatural events occur, again not rocket science.
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Jesus said People will either accept or reject His Words.
He told His Own Disciples if they reject you they reject His Words.
The Gospel is Jesus Words.
Jesus said therefore people can accept them or reject them.

Jesus even said in the Parable of the Wedding Ceremony He sent invitations out but people said they had other things to do [that implies they understood the INVITE but rejected it]

Jesus said in the Sower of the Seed Parable People hear and even the cares of life like wealth, being too busy will cause them to go about doing other things [they heard and walked away].

It is all over the Bible we hear and then can accept or reject.
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

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Magenta said:
God commanding the Pharisees to kill Jesus happened never.
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It did or God's Will would not have happened.


27 Indeed Herod and Pontius Pilate met together with the Gentiles and the people of Israel in this city to conspire against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed.
28 They did what your power and will had decided beforehand should happen.

Herod
Pilate
Gentiles
People of Israel
ALL conspired against Jesus
They did what your power and will had decided beforehand should happen


That is the same thing as was being COMMANDED to do it!

Because they had NO CHOICE but to do it!
 
S

studier

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Apr 18, 2024
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#8,198
Magenta said:
Yeah, you talk as if WE have not been talking about the natural man all along and go all back slapping happy as if you mischaracterize nothing when you have falsely accused me of that before. You on the one hand admit you have not read all my posts but on the other hand want to act as if you know everything others have said on this matter when you obviously do not. Your lack of comprehension is appalling.
Click to expand...

Does this mean we're not going to discuss free will? Maybe we'll both learn something.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

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FollowerofShiloh said:
Jesus said People will either accept or reject His Words.
He told His Own Disciples if they reject you they reject His Words.
The Gospel is Jesus Words.
Jesus said therefore people can accept them or reject them.

Jesus even said in the Parable of the Wedding Ceremony He sent invitations out but people said they had other things to do [that implies they understood the INVITE but rejected it]

Jesus said in the Sower of the Seed Parable People hear and even the cares of life like wealth, being too busy will cause them to go about doing other things [they heard and walked away].

It is all over the Bible we hear and then can accept or reject.
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It is all over the Bible, not a few proof texts taken out of context!!

Otherwise one has to believe that God is only successful with some people and not others, wrong,
Or God only loves some and not others again, doubly WRONG!
Or God only pricks the ears of some not others, wrong again!!

People being able to be be persuaded, believe, accept or reject based on power of the Gospel message does not change the character of God.
These other systems do.
 
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