Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

[HeIsHere]

No one plows their own heart.

Assumption.

 

[Cameron143]

You're not the only one calling for unity. I was addressing the general sentiment that calls for unity while setting themselves apart from others and intimating that, unless I submit to their view, I am an "outsider."

Do you believe I've made you to feel this way?

 

[Mem]

Do you believe I've made you to feel this way?

No, you've never made me feel this way. I merely used the flow of the conversation of which happened to consist of your current involvement as a convenience to insert my two bits.

 

[cv5]

"THEY BELIEVED GOD"
This account demolishes the pretentions of they hyper-Calvinists.
The Hivite Gibeonites made a free-will DECISION to plead for mercy, and SERVE the God of Israel. Wisely.

Jos 9:9
And they said unto him, From a very far country thy servants are come because of the name of the LORD thy God: for we have heard the fame of him, and all that he did in Egypt,
Jos 9:10
And all that he did to the two kings of the Amorites, that were beyond Jordan, to Sihon king of Heshbon, and to Og king of Bashan, which was at Ashtaroth.
Jos 9:11
Wherefore our elders and all the inhabitants of our country spake to us, saying, Take victuals with you for the journey, and go to meet them, and say unto them, We are your servants: therefore now make ye a league with us.

Jos 9:24
And they answered Joshua, and said, Because it was certainly told thy servants, how that the LORD thy God commanded his servant Moses to give you all the land, and to destroy all the inhabitants of the land from before you, therefore we were sore afraid of our lives because of you, and have done this thing.
Jos 9:25
And now, behold, we are in thine hand: as it seemeth good and right unto thee to do unto us, do.

Same deal here. God (first Mover) sends a preacher, then there is belief in Gods Word given to them, and then free-will true repentance. And yes these believers were of the first resurrection aka saved.

Mat 12:41
The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

 

[cv5]

@cv5 he knows a lot more than I do on the Old Testament.

God willing you will come up to speed eventually. And THEN (and only then!) you will rightly understand eschatology.

 

[Magenta]

The view that God grants repentance, spiritual hearing to individuals on a case by case, denying others, is non-scriptural and maligns God

So it is very understandable why people push back and sometimes quite hard.

That God grants repentance is in the good book. You really ought to read it sometime.

How does one feel okay making Jesus a liar.

How do you feel okay making the Holy Spirit of God a liar?

 

[Magenta]

There is no doubt that if God grants spiritual hearing to some and not others then @cv5 is correct.

Ah, So God giving some to Jesus who will definitely come to
Him makes God an unjust tyrant Who is kidnapping people?
Oh, excuse me, kidnapping people against their will.

I really don't get why you would agree with that.

 

[Cameron143]

@cv5 and I disagree, I prefer someone who is upfront with his disdain of my view, which I do not take personally, he knows a lot more than I do on the Old Testament.

That's the difference. I don't have disdain for anyone or their views. While we shouldn't take offense to others behavior, that doesn't mean they aren't offensive, and often sinful. When I leave discussions, it's never because I don't feel I can defend my position. I do it either because arguments start repeating or because other's responses are becoming personal and offensive and recognizing poor behavior I don't want to cause its furtherance.
So while one can tolerate poor behavior, encouraging it only multiplies the sin.

 

[Magenta]

I don't get the big deal. Someone has a view different than your own. So what? Make your argument using scripture and contend for the faith as you see fit. If they receive it, great. If they don't, move on. No need to slander someone.

Eh? Who have I slandered? I don't see you moving on. What are you saying here? Do as I say
but not as I do? I do use Scripture to support my views. Have you missed that fact also?

 

[Magenta]

And to have one set of rules for yourself and another for others is disingenuous.

Some would call it hypocrisy. I believe Jesus called it that.

 

[HeIsHere]

That's the difference. I don't have disdain for anyone or their views. While we shouldn't take offense to others behavior, that doesn't mean they aren't offensive, and often sinful. When I leave discussions, it's never because I don't feel I can defend my position. I do it either because arguments start repeating or because other's responses are becoming personal and offensive and recognizing poor behavior I don't want to cause its furtherance.
So while one can tolerate poor behavior, encouraging it only multiplies the sin.

A person is entitled to have disdain for a view/concept/belief without having disdain for a person especially if they conclude there is harm in the belief/tenet/concept.

I am just not overly concerned with sinful behaviour on a discussion board, but you see it differently, fair enough, but if I perceive baiting for the sake of baiting I move on that tends to be where I draw the line.
I have seen you agree with @cv5 so we all shift our alliances depending on the topic, that is just the way it is.

But I agree with what you say, no point beating a dead horse for sure!

 

[Magenta]

@cv5 and I disagree, I prefer someone who is upfront with his disdain of my view, which I do not take personally, he knows a lot more than I do on the Old Testament.

Well, this can certainly be read a number of ways, so I have to wonder, is it only cv5's "disdain" for your views that you do not take personally? For I am certain you do take disagreements with others personally, which is why you have called being called out on your contradictions, inconsistencies, and outright falsehoods being baited. Oh, look, you just did it again! How auspicious/well-timed was that?

 

[Cameron143]

Eh? Who have I slandered? I don't see you moving on. What are you saying here? Do as I say
but not as I do? I do use Scripture to support my views. Have you missed that fact also?

I wasn't speaking about you. I was speaking to you. And I'm not trying to play hall monitor here. And I'm not condemning people. I know far worse about myself. But I have noticed an uptick in incendiary language of late and ideas becoming more important than people. It's more a lamentation to me.

 

[Mem]

My favorite muppets

 

[Magenta]

I wasn't speaking about you. I was speaking to you. And I'm not trying to play hall monitor here. And
I'm not condemning people. I know far worse about myself. But I have noticed an uptick in incendiary
language of late and ideas becoming more important than people. It's more a lamentation to me.

That was not clear at all in the way you spoke to me. I understand what you are saying most of the time,
and why you are saying it. Other times when I have sought to support you while commenting on what others
have said at the same time, you have responded in a way that left me wondering various things also. Moving on...

 

[Magenta]

My favorite muppets

They almost look about as old as... well, as old as how long the discussions
have been going on, how many thousands of years is that, now? .

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

I explained what it was that I thought was divisive. No need to speculate and possibly divide more.

Your patience is perhaps the greatest thing I have witnessed at any Christian forum. You are really something else.

 

[Magenta]

Assumption.

Because you needed no help whatsoever from God? You did it all on your own? You made the ground
of your heart and mind fertile, you circumcized your own heart and ears, you unblinded yourself with
no assistance, you elected yourself to salvation, you made yourself alive while you were dead?
To hear you speak, the natural man had no hold on you.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Faith to Believe comes by [hearing] the Gospel of Jesus preached out loud.
The Role of a Preacher is very important because God does His Own "works" through the Preacher.
As a Preacher preaches the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Those who hear become aware of their need to be saved.
They start to Believe because the [works] of God have been planted like seeds into fertile soil
Then as the Bible shows us, the Holy Spirit falls upon the hearers who are beginning to Believe.

But on these forums, many reject the idea that God is [WORKING] through the Preacher while He preaches the Gospel.

It's the Preaching of the Gospel that plants the seeds.
It's why Jesus said during the Parable of the Seed Planting: 9 And He said, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear."
Because the Gospel being preached is God [working - planting the seed]

The Preacher is a big key to be obeying God so God is able to [work].

If no one ever heard the Gospel preached, no one would be saved. Faith to Believe comes by HEARING the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Faith to Believe comes by [hearing] the Gospel of Jesus preached out loud.

And perhaps this is why Christianity has virtually no presence in this world. In my near 60 year life, I can think of maybe, maybe one person who has even tried to share the Gospel of Christ (with me). What am I getting at? Christians, when they [think] they are sharing the Saving Plan of Christ, they ONLY offer their limited perception of the Purpose of Christ. "They" leave out the Work of Christ and the Effect of His Work. Therefore, these said "christians" are offering a false gospel that couldn't possibly save a gnat. Therefore, those who have "heard" this false and incomplete gospel should [not] respond . . . and of course, they don't. How could a person who is held by the captivity of Satan respond to something that is incorrectly delivered? They can't . . . and this is the Good News for nearly every member here . . . it's not too late for you, because you have not rejected the actual Saving Plan of Christ! It's not too late: You CAN be brought to Repentance!