There is no way around the truth. The only way is to change it or create false truths.
Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR
- Thread starter MerSee
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
John 12:40 explains, "for this reason they were unable to believe" following an account of Jesus performing signs in their presence and they still did not believe, that which precedes the statement, "This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet."
“Lord, who has believed our message?
And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?”
I'd like to answer those questions with, "the arm of the Lord has been revealed to those who has believed their message." I think that explains my view of it succinctly.
Now, back to "for this reason they were unable to believe. For again, Isaiah says:"
40“He has blinded their eyes
and hardened their hearts,
so that they cannot see with their eyes,
and understand with their hearts,
and turn,
and I would heal them.”
This speaks toward Israel blindness in part for the purpose of bringing in the Gentiles.
God hardened those that were already not believing to not be able to believe, working it all out for our good. However, elsewhere there is mention that this is temporary, if I recall correctly.
The Derek Webb video was really good, very sad, but we cannot put our heads in the sand, there are dire, real world consequences to "reformed" theology.
Thank you.
I get it...you believe sin is an appropriate response sometimes. That doesn't malign God.
I left a question on the table for you and you refused to answer. And it's obvious why. You would have to admit your understanding of God would have to be altered if you answered truthfully.
If you have the expectation that I should listen to what you post and make every effort to understand your position and treat you with respect and dignity, please afford me the same courtesy.
Your question was unrelated and I perceived your question to be a deflection from the morally ambivalent god created who bequeaths spiritual hearing to some and not others when they both hear the Gospel message.
"THEY BELIEVED GOD"
This account demolishes the pretentions of they hyper-Calvinists.
The Hivite Gibeonites made a free-will DECISION to plead for mercy, and SERVE the God of Israel. Wisely.
Jos 9:9
And they said unto him, From a very far country thy servants are come because of the name of the LORD thy God: for we have heard the fame of him, and all that he did in Egypt,
Jos 9:10
And all that he did to the two kings of the Amorites, that were beyond Jordan, to Sihon king of Heshbon, and to Og king of Bashan, which was at Ashtaroth.
Jos 9:11
Wherefore our elders and all the inhabitants of our country spake to us, saying, Take victuals with you for the journey, and go to meet them, and say unto them, We are your servants: therefore now make ye a league with us.
Jos 9:24
And they answered Joshua, and said, Because it was certainly told thy servants, how that the LORD thy God commanded his servant Moses to give you all the land, and to destroy all the inhabitants of the land from before you, therefore we were sore afraid of our lives because of you, and have done this thing.
Jos 9:25
And now, behold, we are in thine hand: as it seemeth good and right unto thee to do unto us, do.
Here's what's disrespectful...I've never read Augustine. But you, and many here, feel the need to label everyone into different camps. This is no different from what liberals do. And it's devisive.
Now liberals aren't called to keep unity, but Christians are. And just as I dismiss liberal's false delineations, I dismiss your delineation.
I appreciate that you took the time and effort to share. Grace and peace.
I don't believe understanding is a prerequisite of faith but, rather, faith is a prerequisite to understanding.
Contrarily, Pharaoh did NOT believe the God of Israel, did NOT have a true heart of repentance.
And.....the ticking clock of judgement stuck midnight for him and his kingdom.
Exo 8:29
And Moses said, Behold, I go out from thee, and I will intreat the LORD that the swarms of flies may depart from Pharaoh, from his servants, and from his people, to morrow: but let not Pharaoh deal deceitfully any more in not letting the people go to sacrifice to the LORD.
And.....the ticking clock of judgement stuck midnight for him and his kingdom.
Exo 8:29
And Moses said, Behold, I go out from thee, and I will intreat the LORD that the swarms of flies may depart from Pharaoh, from his servants, and from his people, to morrow: but let not Pharaoh deal deceitfully any more in not letting the people go to sacrifice to the LORD.
[Jhn 10:26-27 KJV]
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Question: how (and why) does one "keep unity" with any group of so-called Christians that actually believe that the tribulation has already happened? And that the Second Coming likewise has already occurred?
You perceived poorly. In the same passage hearing is being discussed is the parable of the sower. Every soil...heart...recieved seed...the gospel. But it was the condition of the soil that the seed fell on determined the outcome. No one plows their own heart. That is the work of God. So it is incumbent upon God to do this.
The example I employed for the question was wider in scope than simply this, but also includes this. If God doesn't sow seed universally, some never hear the gospel. So I was curious what that meant about them and God in your understanding.
But our discourse has long since stopped being fruitful. So I'll wish you a blessed day.
Well, ideas are passed down though the generations and the idea that "heart, mind and will" are all affected by the fall is an Augustine concept.
@cv5 and I disagree, I prefer someone who is upfront with his disdain of my view, which I do not take personally, he knows a lot more than I do on the Old Testament.
You're not the only one calling for unity. I was addressing the general sentiment that calls for unity while setting themselves apart from others and intimating that, unless I submit to their view, I am an "outsider."