Mike Winger's "Why I think Calvinism is Unbiblical"

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Amen, but Hearing still brings Faith [belief] like I said.

It is vital to all who claim to be Christians, that they learn the Spiritual Circumcision of Christ. Until then, any interpretation of the Bible will be in error.

Acts 7:51 NIV - "You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit!"

If a person would study the Bible in a timeline, chronological order, they will see that this teaching from Stephen is the first and most clear teaching of Spiritual Circumcision (in the New Testament). In looking at Acts 7 at the beginning of the chapter, Stephen references Abraham. Why? Because he is the Father of Faith to all who truly believe, and it is Genesis 17 where circumcision is first instituted.

Who was also present at this teaching from Stephen? That's right, Saul, who would later be renamed Paul, who would later unpack Spiritual Circumcision for the world to see. However, this core teaching of the Bible is hidden behind the Holy Word, Circumcision, because most "christians" are ashamed of this Holy Word, hence, the shame of Adam and Eve."

A person cannot "hear"the Gospel until Christ Spiritually Circumcises their ears.

My recommendation is that people stop focusing on nonsense, and spend two years studying the Circumcision of Christ. When they do so, they will find that they're actually studying the entire Bible. The Bible revolves around the Spiritual Circumcision of Christ.

Ephesians 3:3-11 NLT - 3 As I briefly wrote earlier, God himself revealed his mysterious plan to me. 4 As you read what I have written, you will understand my insight into this plan regarding Christ. 5 God did not reveal it to previous generations, but now by his Spirit he has revealed it to his holy apostles and prophets. 6 And this is God's plan: Both Gentiles and Jews who believe the Good News share equally in the riches inherited by God's children. Both are part of the same body, and both enjoy the promise of blessings because they belong to Christ Jesus. 7 By God's grace and mighty power, I have been given the privilege of serving him by spreading this Good News. 8 Though I am the least deserving of all God's people, he graciously gave me the privilege of telling the Gentiles about the endless treasures available to them in Christ. 9 I was chosen to explain to everyone this mysterious plan that God, the Creator of all things, had kept secret from the beginning. 10 God's purpose in all this was to use the church to display his wisdom in its rich variety to all the unseen rulers and authorities in the heavenly places. 11 This was his eternal plan, which he carried out through Christ Jesus our Lord."

It is our duty and obligation to understand this "Plan" in its fullest sense. That cannot be done until we decide it is time to learn the actual Story of God, but in a timeline, chronological order. Spiritual Circumcision is clearly taught within the first four verses of the Bible.

Genesis 1:3-4 NLT - "Then God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. And God saw that the light was good. Then he separated the light from the darkness."

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

It is vital to all who claim to be Christians, that they learn the Spiritual Circumcision of Christ. Until then, any interpretation of the Bible will be in error.

Acts 7:51 NIV - "You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit!"

If a person would study the Bible in a timeline, chronological order, they will see that this teaching from Stephen is the first and most clear teaching of Spiritual Circumcision (in the New Testament). In looking at Acts 7 at the beginning of the chapter, Stephen references Abraham. Why? Because he is the Father of Faith to all who truly believe, and it is Genesis 17 where circumcision is first instituted.

Who was also present at this teaching from Stephen? That's right, Saul, who would later be renamed Paul, who would later unpack Spiritual Circumcision for the world to see. However, this core teaching of the Bible is hidden behind the Holy Word, Circumcision, because most "christians" are ashamed of this Holy Word, hence, the shame of Adam and Eve."

A person cannot "hear"the Gospel until Christ Spiritually Circumcises their ears.

My recommendation is that people stop focusing on nonsense, and spend two years studying the Circumcision of Christ. When they do so, they will find that they're actually studying the entire Bible. The Bible revolves around the Spiritual Circumcision of Christ.

Ephesians 3:3-11 NLT - 3 As I briefly wrote earlier, God himself revealed his mysterious plan to me. 4 As you read what I have written, you will understand my insight into this plan regarding Christ. 5 God did not reveal it to previous generations, but now by his Spirit he has revealed it to his holy apostles and prophets. 6 And this is God's plan: Both Gentiles and Jews who believe the Good News share equally in the riches inherited by God's children. Both are part of the same body, and both enjoy the promise of blessings because they belong to Christ Jesus. 7 By God's grace and mighty power, I have been given the privilege of serving him by spreading this Good News. 8 Though I am the least deserving of all God's people, he graciously gave me the privilege of telling the Gentiles about the endless treasures available to them in Christ. 9 I was chosen to explain to everyone this mysterious plan that God, the Creator of all things, had kept secret from the beginning. 10 God's purpose in all this was to use the church to display his wisdom in its rich variety to all the unseen rulers and authorities in the heavenly places. 11 This was his eternal plan, which he carried out through Christ Jesus our Lord."

It is our duty and obligation to understand this "Plan" in its fullest sense. That cannot be done until we decide it is time to learn the actual Story of God, but in a timeline, chronological order. Spiritual Circumcision is clearly taught within the first four verses of the Bible.

Genesis 1:3-4 NLT - "Then God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. And God saw that the light was good. Then he separated the light from the darkness."

44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Ruach ha-Kodesh fell on all those hearing the message.
45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were astonished, because the gift of the Ruach ha-Kodesh had been poured out even on the Gentiles.
46 For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and magnifying God.


While [hearing] the Holy Spirit came upon them/filled them because you must be filled with the Holy Spirit in order to do verse 46..speak in tongues.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Ruach ha-Kodesh fell on all those hearing the message.
45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were astonished, because the gift of the Ruach ha-Kodesh had been poured out even on the Gentiles.
46 For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and magnifying God.


While [hearing] the Holy Spirit came upon them/filled them because you must be filled with the Holy Spirit in order to do verse 46..speak in tongues.

Because my entire previous post was ignored, I have nothing to say about yours except that I wish you the best.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Because my entire previous post was ignored, I have nothing to say about yours except that I wish you the best.

You used the example of Stephen.

In that context we see the [hearers] (stopped) their ears.

What you say is truth but you ignore that the hearer has the power to accept or reject what he hears.

Jesus even said 48 The one who rejects Me and doesn’t receive My words has a judge; the word I spoke will judge him on the last day

It's impossible to reject something until you know what you are rejecting. Here they heard Jesus words but chose to reject them.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

In that context we see the [hearers] (stopped) their ears.

Like I said, it is our duty to study Spiritual Circumcision, and when we do, we will find the truth that will put the entire Bible into perspective. But, because you are essentially ignoring this, you will continue to not understand the Bible. I have placed you on the right path, but it is now up to you to follow it.

Isaiah 29:10 NLT - "For the LORD has poured out on you a spirit of deep sleep. He has closed the eyes of your prophets and visionaries."

Paul explains Isa 29:10, even quoting David whom the Lord was Prophesying through:

Romans 11:7-10 NLT - "So this is the situation: Most of the people of Israel have not found the favor of God they are looking for so earnestly. A few have--the ones God has chosen--but the hearts of the rest were hardened. 8 As the Scriptures say, "God has put them into a deep sleep. To this day he has shut their eyes so they do not see, and closed their ears so they do not hear." 9 Likewise, David said, "Let their bountiful table become a snare, a trap that makes them think all is well. Let their blessings cause them to stumble, and let them get what they deserve. 10 Let their eyes go blind so they cannot see, and let their backs be bent forever."

After this post, there will be nothing that I can do for you unless you realize that you need to begin asking questions instead of being the teacher.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Like I said, it is our duty to study Spiritual Circumcision, and when we do, we will find the truth that will put the entire Bible into perspective. But, because you are essentially ignoring this, you will continue to not understand the Bible. I have placed you on the right path, but it is now up to you to follow it.

Isaiah 29:10 NLT - "For the LORD has poured out on you a spirit of deep sleep. He has closed the eyes of your prophets and visionaries."

Paul explains Isa 29:10, even quoting David whom the Lord was Prophesying through:

Romans 11:7-10 NLT - "So this is the situation: Most of the people of Israel have not found the favor of God they are looking for so earnestly. A few have--the ones God has chosen--but the hearts of the rest were hardened. 8 As the Scriptures say, "God has put them into a deep sleep. To this day he has shut their eyes so they do not see, and closed their ears so they do not hear." 9 Likewise, David said, "Let their bountiful table become a snare, a trap that makes them think all is well. Let their blessings cause them to stumble, and let them get what they deserve. 10 Let their eyes go blind so they cannot see, and let their backs be bent forever."

After this post, there will be nothing that I can do for you unless you realize that you need to begin asking questions instead of being the teacher.

No I agree with all that you said. You began with a quote from me that stated Hearing leads to...
I wasn't talking specifically what you are but I do agree with you. And I saw you were conforming my quote into your theology. I just wanted to ensure no one lost the hearing portion because we have people whose hearts are pricked, the Holy Spirit falls, and people who decided to stop hearing all together.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

No I agree with all that you said. You began with a quote from me that stated Hearing leads to...
I wasn't talking specifically what you are but I do agree with you. And I saw you were conforming my quote into your theology. I just wanted to ensure no one lost the hearing portion because we have people whose hearts are pricked, the Holy Spirit falls, and people who decided to stop hearing all together.

First of all, your positive and gentle replies are refreshing. Thank you!

As a "reporter" of the Bible (which is me - sorry for the late edit), this miraculous book makes it clear that those whom the Lord has selected will [not] fall. Not only is there a massive set of Scripture to support this, but it also fits with the context of the Bible. It is the Power of God, through Spiritual Circumcision, that will not allow a person to fall. Why? Because Spiritual Circumcision is the cutting away of the Sinful Nature, the Nature that causes a person to disobey. Colossians 2:9-15 (the seven most complete passages in the Bible) is comprehensive in explaining this. But there is more . . .

The key phrase in the below three incredible passages is "so that." All that is described in the passages must be done "so that" obedience can take place. Ezekiel 36:25-27 is directly related and pointing to Colossians 2:9-15.

Ezekiel 36:25-27 NLT - 25 "Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean. Your filth will be washed away, and you will no longer worship idols. 26 And I will give you a new heart, and I will put a new spirit in you. I will take out your stony, stubborn heart and give you a tender, responsive heart. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you so that you will follow my decrees and be careful to obey my regulations."

Colossians 2:9-15 NLT - "For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body. 10 So you also are complete through your union with Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority. 11 When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature. 12 For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead. 13 You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins. 14 He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross. 15 In this way, he disarmed the spiritual rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross."

If we notice, verse 10 above makes the claim that it is THIS work that makes a person whole and complete. If a person is "in" Christ who is "in" God, it will be impossible to possess corruption that would cause a person to "fall away." Those who fall away never belonged and remain under the captive control of the Devil.

2 Timothy 2:25-26 NLT - "Gently instruct those who oppose the truth. Perhaps God will change those people's hearts, and they will learn the truth. 26 Then they will come to their senses and escape from the devil's trap. For they have been held captive by him to do whatever he wants."

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

First of all, your positive and gentle replies are refreshing. Thank you!

As a "reporter" of the Bible (which is me - sorry for the late edit), this miraculous book makes it clear that those whom the Lord has selected will [not] fall. Not only is there a massive set of Scripture to support this, but it also fits with the context of the Bible. It is the Power of God, through Spiritual Circumcision, that will not allow a person to fall. Why? Because Spiritual Circumcision is the cutting away of the Sinful Nature, the Nature that causes a person to disobey. Colossians 2:9-15 (the seven most complete passages in the Bible) is comprehensive in explaining this. But there is more . . .

The key phrase in the below three incredible passages is "so that." All that is described in the passages must be done "so that" obedience can take place. Ezekiel 36:25-27 is directly related and pointing to Colossians 2:9-15.

Ezekiel 36:25-27 NLT - 25 "Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean. Your filth will be washed away, and you will no longer worship idols. 26 And I will give you a new heart, and I will put a new spirit in you. I will take out your stony, stubborn heart and give you a tender, responsive heart. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you so that you will follow my decrees and be careful to obey my regulations."

Colossians 2:9-15 NLT - "For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body. 10 So you also are complete through your union with Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority. 11 When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature. 12 For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead. 13 You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins. 14 He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross. 15 In this way, he disarmed the spiritual rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross."

If we notice, verse 10 above makes the claim that it is THIS work that makes a person whole and complete. If a person is "in" Christ who is "in" God, it will be impossible to possess corruption that would cause a person to "fall away." Those who fall away never belonged and remain under the captive control of the Devil.

2 Timothy 2:25-26 NLT - "Gently instruct those who oppose the truth. Perhaps God will change those people's hearts, and they will learn the truth. 26 Then they will come to their senses and escape from the devil's trap. For they have been held captive by him to do whatever he wants."

Is it possible, knowing what I just read ^... because the Bible states in Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth will worship him, those whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb that was slain from the foundation of the world...

...Everyone else, because their names have not been removed/added/etc still has an opportunity to be saved? It's just that sadly most, like Jesus said, will choose the wide gate, make the decision to reject God's Chance at Redemption?


And Thank You for Your kind words

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Is it possible, knowing what I just read ^... because the Bible states in Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth will worship him, those whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb that was slain from the foundation of the world...

...Everyone else, because their names have not been removed/added/etc still has an opportunity to be saved? It's just that sadly most, like Jesus said, will choose the wide gate, make the decision to reject God's Chance at Redemption?


And Thank You for Your kind words

Friend, I do my best not to misinterpret what others say. That said, I am not confident (in myself) that I properly understand what you're saying . . . but I THINK I do!

I think that looking at Rev 13:5-10 makes things pretty clear, which is that there are truly only two types of "people" on planet Earth. Those who belong to God and those who belong to the Devil. What this may be pointing to, and I stress the word "MAY" . . . the abominations first discussed in Genesis 6. The Vine of Christ is so thin, low-lying, and undetectable (in a forest, for example) that Noah and his family were the only Righteous people on Earth. The rest may have been the offspring of the Devil. Again, I am a mere human and would never assert that this is true, however, the Bible does seem to report that this might be the case.

These Sons of God also began mating with Canaan, the son of Ham whom Noah had cursed. Shem is the Father of the Blessed Jews, Japheth is the Father of the Gentiles, and Canaan is the Father of the Abominations who were called to be completely destroyed, man, woman, child, and even their corrupted animals. The Sons of God produced abominations, thus, they couldn't possibly be from God. Thus, these "people" will not inherit Eternal Life. Then again, I am a mere human and could very well be wrong on this.

Let's look at the Revelation passages:
Revelation 13:5-10 NLT - 5 Then the beast was allowed to speak great blasphemies against God. And he was given authority to do whatever he wanted for forty-two months. 6 And he spoke terrible words of blasphemy against God, slandering his name and his dwelling--that is, those who dwell in heaven. 7 And the beast was allowed to wage war against God's holy people and to conquer them. And he was given authority to rule over every tribe and people and language and nation. 8 And all the people who belong to this world worshiped the beast. They are the ones whose names were not written in the Book of Life before the world was made--the Book that belongs to the Lamb who was slaughtered. 9 Anyone with ears to hear should listen and understand. 10 Anyone who is destined for prison will be taken to prison. Anyone destined to die by the sword will die by the sword. This means that God's holy people must endure persecution patiently and remain faithful."

Yes, these Holy must Endure persecution, and they will, because they have been Purified by the Lord. They belong to Him; they are owned by Him; they are upheld by Him. Those who are Purified have already crossed over from death to Life. It is this exact Purification that allowed king David, the "Father" of Christ, to sing about his Purity, Righteousness, and Salvation. And just because David committed adultery, he was not cut off from the Lord. In fact, David and Bathsheba were not stoned to death for their "dirty deed" of intimacy. That is a very telling tale! They were allowed to live because they had already been separated from the Curse; and anyone who has been separated from the Adamic Curse, are not obligated to the Mosaic Law. Example: Jesus Forgave the adulterous woman, thus He Himself did not stone her to death.

The Blessed Jews simply did not understand that if they had forgiven each other, God would have also Forgiven them, and the punishment of death would not have been followed.

Our Bible is so incredible, so staggering, so inconceivable in its principles and Message. After years of intensely studying Spiritual Circumcision, I still sit here and shake my head over the Lord's hidden, Mysterious Plan. I just can't hardly believe what He has done . . . the hiding of such stunning teachings.

Sorry . . . I didn't answer your question with my mere opinion. I don't think that those whose names are NOT in the Book of Life will have the chance to be saved. And that is because they are not the actual offspring of God, but of the Devil.

 

[Iconoclast]

God is light and in Him is no darkness. He is eternal and timeless, sees the past, present and future altogether at once and decreed that evil should come into the world at the choice of man by the deception of the devil to demonstrate His holy hatred of evil and His holy love in saving His people from that evil in Christ.

No one deserves mercy from God for all are sinners by who they are and not simply what they do therefore it is of awesome grace that God should choose any to be saved and suffer His own creatures to kill Him to secure salvation for those He as the Potter has chosen to save for the glory of His grace and the rest according to His will glorify His perfectly good, holy, righteous, eternal and just wrath.

If anyone does not yet understand this then they have not yet been granted by grace to be humbled to truly see the cross of Christ.

Thank you for this clear, positive post.

 

[Iconoclast]

But he did not create some to be saved and some to be wicked. If He did the wicked are off the hook. God can't send them to hell if He created them to be what they are, wicked. He can't blame them for what they are.

All are wicked to start with, In Mercy He elects a multitude from among the Lost, and saves them from their sins.


Yes, the wicked will be destroyed because they chose not to follow God. Not because God created them to be destroyed.

They will be destroyed because of their sins, see Jn 8

 

[Iconoclast]

Calvinism is unbiblical. It is building upon another foundation destroying the body of Christ (strange fire) and in danger of hell fire.

You cannot even begin to defend your position.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

They will be destroyed because of their sins, see Jn 8

They were NOT created to be cast into hell. They CHOSE !!

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

I realize that it is easy to lose control over ourselves, but we cannot wait for moderators to straighten us out. We MUST begin to speak to each other with kindness, gentleness, and most of all, Love.

1 John 4:11-12 NLT - "Dear friends, since God loved us that much, we surely ought to love each other. No one has ever seen God. But if we love each other, God lives in us, and his love is brought to full expression in us."

We know that God's Love for His Son is within us, but ONLY if that Love is expressed through ourselves and to each other. This is not Reader's Digest reading material while on the pooper . . . this is a test to prove, to ourselves, who we are (who our Spiritual Father is).

 

[Iconoclast]

They were NOT created to be cast into hell. They CHOSE !!

31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
God made everything good. All men sinned and died in Adam/All were born in the realm of death.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
God made everything good. All men sinned and died in Adam/All were born in the realm of death.

Choice, God did not create a saved and an unsaved people.

 

[Iconoclast]

Choice, God did not create a saved and an unsaved people.

It is not about choice. All men choose sin. It is about sinners loving their sin, rather than God. You are another that does not grasp the biblical teaching. Instead you make emotion based posts, that have little to do with scripture.

 

[Magenta]

God did not create a saved and an unsaved people.

True, dat... nobody is born saved. ''You must be born again.''

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Choice, God did not create a saved and an unsaved people.

Enoch may have been one born outside of the entire Curse of the Lord. The Adamic Curse has at least two parts:

1) The Curse of physical death
2) The Curse that results in separation from God, which includes a Sinful Nature that is inherited from Satan, hence the mind of Satan is replaced by the Mind of Christ (for those who are belong to the Lord).

Though king David, the "Father of Christ" remained under the physical Curse of the Lord, he was not born with a Sinful Nature, for he belonged to the Lord before he left his mother's womb.

Psalm 22:9-10 NLT - "Yet you brought me safely from my mother's womb and led me to trust you at my mother's breast. 10 I was thrust into your arms at my birth. You have been my God from the moment I was born."
Psalm 71:6 NLT - "Yes, you have been with me from birth; from my mother's womb you have cared for me. No wonder I am always praising you!"
Psalm 51:6 NLT - "But you desire honesty from the womb, teaching me wisdom even there."

There is absolutely zero doubt that Satan was never the Spiritual Father of David, the Son of Abraham. David was born Spiritually Holy, Righteous, and Pure.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

Calvinism is unbiblical. It is building upon another foundation destroying the body of Christ (strange fire) and in danger of hell fire.

The doctrine of Calvinism is Heresy!
a. Once Saved Always Saved
b. Election & Predestination
c. Limited Atonement
d. It is a work of the flesh (Galatians 5:19-21).
e. Calvinism does not believe in free will.

The five points of Calvinism can be summarized by the acronym TULIP. T stands for total depravity, U for unconditional election, L for limited atonement, I for irresistible grace, and P for perseverance of the saints.

Yes, I Believe In Eternal Security, but I do not believe in unconditional eternal security.

The Once Saved Always Doctrine came from the serpent himself. He told Eve that she shall not surely die.

“as a “dragon,” he shows his power; as a “serpent,” he shows his cunning; as the “Devil,” he is the accuser; and as “Satan,” he is the adversary”

A little leaven, leaven’s the whole lump! 1 Timothy 4:1-2

“Sheep follow Jesus: for they know His Voice (the true heart will know His Voice, and the false heart will follow others). And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him”