Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

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Cameron143

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The point often missed is God's expectation that man rise above in his potential as man rather than fall below it into the category of a common beast. And His grace ensures the possibility of forgiveness, when man inevitably does fall, to rise back up in dignity.
No one denies this. I'm not encouraging anyone to become a monkey...or a worm, or a beast. I'm merely pointing out their beastly fallen estate that necessitates God's grace.
 

Mem

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Sep 23, 2014
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No one denies this. I'm not encouraging anyone to become a monkey...or a worm, or a beast. I'm merely pointing out their beastly fallen estate that necessitates God's grace.
I understand, but it's the suggestion of no possibility to overcome it that is met with my contention, especially that Jesus provides, everyone, with no distinction, such opportunity.
 

Cameron143

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I understand, but it's the suggestion of no possibility to overcome it that is met with my contention, especially that Jesus provides, everyone, with no distinction, such opportunity.
Even people who lived and died who never heard of Jesus?
 

Mem

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Even people who lived and died who never heard of Jesus?
`I can't imagine the account of a man rising from the dead would be left unmentioned very long, and not without at least a bit of inquiry of the details.
 

Cameron143

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`I can't imagine the account of a man rising from the dead would be left unmentioned very long, and not without at least a bit of inquiry of the details.
When did American Indians learn about Jesus?
 

Mem

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When did American Indians learn about Jesus?
During the trail of tears? I'm not omniscient nor a historian but there is a historical account that the Pilgrims brought them the message. However, I've also heard account that the Algonquins were actually Hebrew migrants, so. If no one is given excuse, then there's no one that can claim ignorance, right?
 

Cameron143

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During the trail of tears? I'm not omniscient nor a historian but there is a historical account that the Pilgrims brought them the message. However, I've also heard account that the Algonquins were actually Hebrew migrants, so. If no one is given excuse, then there's no one that can claim ignorance, right?
You made a statement that Jesus provides everyone with opportunity. I was just giving evidence that this wasn't the case. Large numbers of people have been born, lived, and died never even hearing His name.
 

Mem

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You made a statement that Jesus provides everyone with opportunity. I was just giving evidence that this wasn't the case. Large numbers of people have been born, lived, and died never even hearing His name.
No one can know that He hasn't preached. as He did in the Spirit, to all the "souls in prison" in Noah's day. Did Noah know His name?
 

Cameron143

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No one can know that He hasn't preached. as He did in the Spirit, to all the "souls in prison" in Noah's day. Did Noah know His name?
When a missionary goes to a region and no one knows about Jesus, He hasn't been there. The truth is, that's why God sends them. If you want to believe that the gospel has been preached to every person in all times, feel free to do so.
 

PaulThomson

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Even people who lived and died who never heard of Jesus?
I thought, unlike me, many posters here think that God is outside time and not temporal. Dies that include you? Now all of a sudden He is limited by time and can't apply the cross to people who lived before the cross?
 

FollowerofShiloh

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Jesus didn’t die to save a few. He died to save all. Christ dying for the ungodly is a proof of Love immeasurable. Jesus died for those who bitterly hate Him.
That’s Love!
Romans 5:8
Amen!

Jesus' Own words:
Luke 19:10 For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost.

What was lost?
All Humanity beginning in the Garden.
 

PaulThomson

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Your example does not reflect the spiritual reality as described by the Bible. And with that, I'm done.
This exchange has been a great example of how ideologues cannot help but read their ideology into everything they read. If they cannot read a simple extra-biblical English sentence without their ideological lenses distorting the content and meaning of that text, is it any surprise that they cannot read the Bible for what it actually says, but inject their theological bias into every verse.
 

Cameron143

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I thought, unlike me, many posters here think that God is outside time and not temporal. Dies that include you? Now all of a sudden He is limited by time and can't apply the cross to people who lived before the cross?
I never said He couldn't, merely that He didn't. And I wasn't talking about before the cross. God isn't limited by anything other than His purpose.
 

PaulThomson

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I never said He couldn't, merely that He didn't. And I wasn't talking about before the cross. God isn't limited by anything other than His purpose.
How can you possibly know He didn't, isn't or won't, if you believe He is outside time?
 

studier

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Apr 18, 2024
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PaulThomson said:
If I am drowning and a woman throws me a rope and I grab it and she drags me to a boat and to safety, how does my grabbing the rope, by which I cooperated with her, make her no longer my saviour? Please explain.
Oh come on Paul! What's wrong with you!?

A dead person can't drown!
God's not a woman!
A dead person can't grab a rope!
God must first resurrect a dead person!
A fetus can't grab a rope before it's born!
Don't worry, just wait for 9 months...
While we're waiting, what's the rope? Maybe the rope is the savior, no?

Now Paul, please change this so you can be more biblical:

Billions of corpses are floating in the water eating bananas > a strong Man who elected one of them gaffs it with a big hook > drags it > impregnates it with his neuter spirit > 9 months later the fetus prays and the strong Man sends another strong man to tell it to come forth into life > it comes forth as a mature man with a diverse diet who the strong Man sends to speak to the next praying fetus whom was one of the banana eating floating corpses the strong Man elected and gaffed and impregnated and turned into the fetus who has gestated for 9 months...
BTW, the banana is the savior as it kept the elect corpse floating.
Now, where did the banana come from, Paul? Don't you get it?
 

studier

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it seems to me that it begrudges man any form of dignity whatsoever
Now that I've dealt with @PaulThomson, Mem, let's straighten you out.

Man's a banana-eating corpse and has no dignity, get it!?
He needs to be circumcised.

Got it now?

BTW, when's the last time you saw a worm wrestle?
It needs to be circumcised!

Geesh! So simple... Now let me ask you a question.
 

selahsays

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May 31, 2023
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Now here’s something else to consider from Ephesians 2:2-3 Here, it isn’t Adam being blamed for our fallen nature; it’s the prince of the air, that is to say, Satan!

Ephesians 2:1-9:
And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.
 

studier

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Apr 18, 2024
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Thus, no faithfully obedient, remaining under grace, walking in Spirit, enduring. etc. "co-labourer With God" can will extricate oneself From God's Eternal Salvation and love "by his behaviour" - like deserting and falling from grace, which means "all the warnings about falling" must then refer to "rewards or lack thereof" having served to effectively warn the enduring co-laborer with God and as a witness to others who will have no excuse At The Judgment Seat Of Christ, our Wonderful Saviour and Also Righteous Judge, Correct?
Corrected?