There will be no Rapture!!!
- Thread starter Romans1012
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
The Rapture is not the immediate going to Heaven. Its to be caught up in the clouds.
You act like we think we are going to be taken right to heaven in the Rapture.
We will be looking down on the earth below us.
In resurrection bodies such high altitude will not even be noticed as an issue.
Why do some FEAR and fight this so much? Its like they are spokesmen for the Devil who hates the hope the teaching of the Rapture is supposed to produce in Spirit led believers. Why the FEAR and resentment?
According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until
the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the
Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the
archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After
that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the
clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
Therefore encourage one another with these words."
1 Thessalonians 4:15-18
To me?
Christians who fight that?
Are being manipulated by strange spirits in their midst...
Or... being discovered by strange spirits to be kindred of kind.
You seem to have a good grasp of Israelite history and culture.
So let me ask you this:
how many "honeymoon at the Father's house [pre-wedding supper] snatches" have there been in Israel since the Exodus?
Untold millions upon millions.
If your eschatology does not match the Jewish wedding pattern.....it is undoubtedly wrong.
So let me ask you this:
how many "honeymoon at the Father's house [pre-wedding supper] snatches" have there been in Israel since the Exodus?
Untold millions upon millions.
If your eschatology does not match the Jewish wedding pattern.....it is undoubtedly wrong.
The Adam pattern.
The Passover pattern.
The Exodus pattern.
The Jordan crossing pattern.
The Job pattern.
The conquest of Joshua pattern.
The flood pattern.
The Jewish wedding pattern.
These all must align to whatever eschatological view that you care to espouse.
And anything OTHER than pre-trib rapture.......breaks the pattern. And is undoubtedly wrong.
The Passover pattern.
The Exodus pattern.
The Jordan crossing pattern.
The Job pattern.
The conquest of Joshua pattern.
The flood pattern.
The Jewish wedding pattern.
These all must align to whatever eschatological view that you care to espouse.
And anything OTHER than pre-trib rapture.......breaks the pattern. And is undoubtedly wrong.
Wait a minute. Your posts are confusing me. (Perhaps I'm thinking of a different poster/member and confusing you with him. It's possible.)
Aren't you the one who holds to a "mid-trib [pre-Satan's-wrath] rapture"-timing?
If so, doesn't that mean that you believe we'll be "caught up" around MID-trib (when there are 1260 days remaining to His Second Coming to the earth Rev19)??
And if THAT IS what you believe, "where" do you believe we will BE for those "1260 days" (of the second half of the Trib yrs)? Do you believe we will STAY "IN THE AIR" for that length of time? Or what?
[Angela believes the "U-turn" idea (re: G726) which from her perspective takes place at the time of [what we label] "the Second Coming"--a term she is saying IS found in the Bible in contrast to the word "rapture" WHICH ISN'T (according to her post you liked and "Amen'd")]
____________
The thing is (and I said this in some previous post), 1Thess4:17 (not only NOT being the ONLY verse "on the Subject") is IN THE CONTEXT of 1Thess3:13 (which informs us OF THE LOCATION we'll be headed after the "IN THE AIR" spot where the "MEETING OF THE LORD" will first take place--but that's not the end of the story [we don't "hang around in the air" for either 1260 days, nor for "7 yrs"]--we head on up TO WHERE 3:13 says! And it is FROM THERE [that the later thing happens-->] we return WITH HIM, and that's what 4:17 *means* where it talks about HOW IT IS that God will ALSO "BRING WITH HIM/JESUS," meaning, WHEN HE RETURNS TO THE EARTH at Rev19 [not at the time-slot of when we're "caught up [G726]"--At THAT point we head UP TO the 3:13 LOCATION!])
So where it says (regarding "the dead in Christ") "shall God BRING WITH [G4862] HIM/Jesus," it is NOT talking about them coming with Him when He is DESCENDS FROM HEAVEN (FOR the meeting "IN THE AIR") in their spirits (which have been "at-home-with the Lord" since they died), NO!; rather it is talking about what happens SUBSEQUENTLY TO our being caught up together with them (when the fact of: "SO [/in this manner] shall we [the Church which is His body IN ITS ENTIRETY] ever be WITH [G4862-UNIONed-with] the Lord" (and not BEFORE the "caught up" moment--i.e. like the dead in Christ's "spirits" descending from heaven when HE does, like many suppose this is saying by the words "shall God bring WITH Him/Jesus"--It isn't speaking of that, here.)
Aren't you the one who holds to a "mid-trib [pre-Satan's-wrath] rapture"-timing?
If so, doesn't that mean that you believe we'll be "caught up" around MID-trib (when there are 1260 days remaining to His Second Coming to the earth Rev19)??
And if THAT IS what you believe, "where" do you believe we will BE for those "1260 days" (of the second half of the Trib yrs)? Do you believe we will STAY "IN THE AIR" for that length of time? Or what?
[Angela believes the "U-turn" idea (re: G726) which from her perspective takes place at the time of [what we label] "the Second Coming"--a term she is saying IS found in the Bible in contrast to the word "rapture" WHICH ISN'T (according to her post you liked and "Amen'd")]
____________
The thing is (and I said this in some previous post), 1Thess4:17 (not only NOT being the ONLY verse "on the Subject") is IN THE CONTEXT of 1Thess3:13 (which informs us OF THE LOCATION we'll be headed after the "IN THE AIR" spot where the "MEETING OF THE LORD" will first take place--but that's not the end of the story [we don't "hang around in the air" for either 1260 days, nor for "7 yrs"]--we head on up TO WHERE 3:13 says! And it is FROM THERE [that the later thing happens-->] we return WITH HIM, and that's what 4:17 *means* where it talks about HOW IT IS that God will ALSO "BRING WITH HIM/JESUS," meaning, WHEN HE RETURNS TO THE EARTH at Rev19 [not at the time-slot of when we're "caught up [G726]"--At THAT point we head UP TO the 3:13 LOCATION!])
So where it says (regarding "the dead in Christ") "shall God BRING WITH [G4862] HIM/Jesus," it is NOT talking about them coming with Him when He is DESCENDS FROM HEAVEN (FOR the meeting "IN THE AIR") in their spirits (which have been "at-home-with the Lord" since they died), NO!; rather it is talking about what happens SUBSEQUENTLY TO our being caught up together with them (when the fact of: "SO [/in this manner] shall we [the Church which is His body IN ITS ENTIRETY] ever be WITH [G4862-UNIONed-with] the Lord" (and not BEFORE the "caught up" moment--i.e. like the dead in Christ's "spirits" descending from heaven when HE does, like many suppose this is saying by the words "shall God bring WITH Him/Jesus"--It isn't speaking of that, here.)
-
1
- Show all
Actually, reading through these posts, I find myself actually fine with the idea of agreeing with those who have the Marine mentality of toughness; thinking that they will survive one out of every two people being murdered upon this earth as the outflow of the great wrath of the Lamb in the first 42 months. They can go for it with gusto. If that's what they want to believe for themselves, then they have that freedom that I will never try to take away from them.
For those who believe in the blessed hope, which Paul defined as deliverance FROM rather WITHIN, then those who believe in remaining here, to be battered, beaten, bruised and tortured, with only a 50% chance of being among those who escape being among the murdered masses of the earth, they are free to stay if they so desire.
The Lord is potentially willing to give the desires of the heart to whosoever claims to follow Him. Those who believe they will be left here, then they are certainly free to try and live that out as best they can. I'm too old to play like a Marine, fighting as young men in those trenches with every other human around me being wiped out in just 42 short months.
I salute all those toughies out there who will remain to tell us all later what it was like...if they remain in Christ through that ordeal.
MM
For those who believe in the blessed hope, which Paul defined as deliverance FROM rather WITHIN, then those who believe in remaining here, to be battered, beaten, bruised and tortured, with only a 50% chance of being among those who escape being among the murdered masses of the earth, they are free to stay if they so desire.
The Lord is potentially willing to give the desires of the heart to whosoever claims to follow Him. Those who believe they will be left here, then they are certainly free to try and live that out as best they can. I'm too old to play like a Marine, fighting as young men in those trenches with every other human around me being wiped out in just 42 short months.
I salute all those toughies out there who will remain to tell us all later what it was like...if they remain in Christ through that ordeal.
MM
I believe Revelation has Raptures different than what Paul is talking about.
Revelation has the Two Witnesses [Body of Believers from every tongue/nation] + Beheaded
Paul has the "Twinkling of an Eye change" Event from corruptible to incorruptible at the end of Tribulation going directly into Armageddon.
Revelation has the Two Witnesses [Body of Believers from every tongue/nation] + Beheaded
Paul has the "Twinkling of an Eye change" Event from corruptible to incorruptible at the end of Tribulation going directly into Armageddon.
I have to ask this: So, you're thinking that every believer around the world who allegedly comprise those "two witnesses" will all be killed together, in just one day, and left laying in the streets of every nation's cities, only to rise up to life in three days? How could the man of sin pull that off, and get every one of them with none allegedly escaping? The narrative gives no other wiggle room than for that one scenario, as I see it. Please explain the seeming contradiction.
Is it also your contention that each and every one of them will be able to breath fire from their mouths to consume all who try to harm them in the first 42 months? How would there ever be any defense forces left around the world...enough to kill them all at the end of 42 months? Is it those two groupings who bring about much of the deaths around the world to the tune of more than 50% wiped out in just the first 42 months?
Clarification please.
MM
Is it also your contention that each and every one of them will be able to breath fire from their mouths to consume all who try to harm them in the first 42 months? How would there ever be any defense forces left around the world...enough to kill them all at the end of 42 months? Is it those two groupings who bring about much of the deaths around the world to the tune of more than 50% wiped out in just the first 42 months?
Clarification please.
MM
I still don't know your answer to my question (or 2 questions):
--"WHERE" do you think we go following "the meeting of the Lord IN THE AIR"?
--"WHEN" do you believe "our Rapture" takes place (in relation to the Trib years)?
[I thought you earlier said "pre-Satan's-wrath" i.e. MID-trib/Pre-Wrath... something along those lines... no?]
_____
[for the readers: I believe there is only ONE "Rapture" and it pertains SOLELY TO "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"... it does NOT pertain to all other saints of all OTHER time periods: not to OT saints, not to Trib saints, not to MK saints; I do NOT believe an "ascension" is equivalent to a "SNATCH [G726 - rapture / caught up]"]
--"WHERE" do you think we go following "the meeting of the Lord IN THE AIR"?
--"WHEN" do you believe "our Rapture" takes place (in relation to the Trib years)?
[I thought you earlier said "pre-Satan's-wrath" i.e. MID-trib/Pre-Wrath... something along those lines... no?]
_____
[for the readers: I believe there is only ONE "Rapture" and it pertains SOLELY TO "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"... it does NOT pertain to all other saints of all OTHER time periods: not to OT saints, not to Trib saints, not to MK saints; I do NOT believe an "ascension" is equivalent to a "SNATCH [G726 - rapture / caught up]"]
Precisely. That is exactly what pre-tribbers believe.
There is no 7 year tribulation vis a vis the rapture, nor the wedding supper.
The tribulation concerns the final redemption of ISRAEL primarily. Gentiles get saved too of course.
And Satan is defeated.
Do not mix the trib with the BLESSED rapture or BLESSED wedding supper.
There is no 7 year tribulation vis a vis the rapture, nor the wedding supper.
The tribulation concerns the final redemption of ISRAEL primarily. Gentiles get saved too of course.
And Satan is defeated.
Do not mix the trib with the BLESSED rapture or BLESSED wedding supper.
What's the difference between Raptured in one day or as you ask of it? It's one day.
Bible plainly states the AC is given by GOD the power to make war and overcome the SAINTS [plural].
7 Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them
And here is some enlightenment for ya.
If there was just 2 single men as the olive trees and lampstands how come those on Earth, not some where these 2 men could only be but those who [[dwell on earth]] be tormented by the 2 Witnesses. If these 2 single men where in England, how could the USA be tormented?
10 And they that dwell on the earth rejoice over them and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another, because these two prophets tormented them that dwell on the earth.
And there's proof of who is being tormented for first 3 1/2 years those who oppose God not those of God.
Bible plainly states the AC is given by GOD the power to make war and overcome the SAINTS [plural].
7 Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them
And here is some enlightenment for ya.
If there was just 2 single men as the olive trees and lampstands how come those on Earth, not some where these 2 men could only be but those who [[dwell on earth]] be tormented by the 2 Witnesses. If these 2 single men where in England, how could the USA be tormented?
10 And they that dwell on the earth rejoice over them and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another, because these two prophets tormented them that dwell on the earth.
And there's proof of who is being tormented for first 3 1/2 years those who oppose God not those of God.