The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

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reneweddaybyday

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Cameron143 said:
The condition of a saved person is belief and they are therefore in Christ and not under condemnation, while the opposite is true for those who aren't saved?
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I see it as ... the condition of a believing person is saved and they are therefore in Christ and not under condemnation while the condition of an unbelieving person is not saved and under condemnation.

Romans 1:

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it [the gospel of Christ] is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein [the gospel of Christ] is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

It is the gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation to those who believe.


18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold [Greek = katechō] the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse

They are without excuse because God has shown to them that which may be known of God ... but, according to vs 18, they suppress the truth in unrighteousness.

In vs 18, the words "who hold" are translated from the Greek word katechō which means to suppress, restrain ... katechō is in the present tense which indicates that ungodly men and women are continually, actively, willfully (active voice), deliberately restraining, hindering and withholding the truth about God. The active voice indicates this is a volitional choice, a choice of their will.

As I have stated many, many times ... God has provided all that mankind needs in order for mankind to come to Him when He reaches out to us ... and I believe God reaches out to each and every person more than once in his or her lifetime. God always makes the first move ...

for those who do not suppress the truth in unrighteousness, they reap the blessing and benefit as stated by God

for those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, they reap the consequence as stated by God
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brightfame52

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reneweddaybyday said:
Scripture is clear that the Lord Jesus Christ died for the sins of the whole world ... all descendants of Adam ...

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.






Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

The them that are sanctified spoken of in Hebrews 10:14 refers to the comers spoken of in vs 1 and the worshippers spoken of in vs 2.

Under the old covenant, God made provision for the covering of sins through the various offerings described under the old covenant, but if the Israelites chose not to partake, their sins were not covered.

The offerings under the old covenant were a shadow of good things to come ... the offerings were not the very image of the things (Heb 10:1). The oferings pointed to Messiah ... the One Offering which would cover all sin.


Same situation in our day and time under the new covenant ... the offering of the Lord Jesus Christ is sufficient to cover all the sins of all mankind ... but if someone's erroneous dogma tells folks they don't need to come ... their sins will not be covered. Not because the offering is in any way deficient, but because they believe the lie that they do not need to come ... that they do not need to repent ... that they do not need to believe.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
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More opposing the accomplishment of the death of Christ.
 
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brightfame52

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Hath Perfected them forever!2

Now because it's a fact that sinners Christ died for are perfected forever, a truth that only God given Faith can receive, none of them can or will ever come into condemnation!
 
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brightfame52

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It brings us to God !

Even though the religious unbelieving world can't and doesn't believe this, one of the effects of the atoning death of Christ is to bring chosen sinners to God 1 Peter 3:18

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

That word bring is the greek word prosagó and means:

Definition: I bring to, bring near; I come to or towards, approach.

Its the same word Jesus uses here Jn 10:16

King James Bible

And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

He brings them by the power and effect of His Death. That is why the writer of Hebrews writes they come to God by Him Heb 7:25

Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. 58
 
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Nufan

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brightfame52 said:
It brings us to God !

Even though the religious unbelieving world can't and doesn't believe this, one of the effects of the atoning death of Christ is to bring chosen sinners to God 1 Peter 3:18

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

That word bring is the greek word prosagó and means:

Definition: I bring to, bring near; I come to or towards, approach.

Its the same word Jesus uses here Jn 10:16

King James Bible

And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

He brings them by the power and effect of His Death. That is why the writer of Hebrews writes they come to God by Him Heb 7:25

Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. 58
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🙄🥱🤷‍♂️
 
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reneweddaybyday

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brightfame52 said:
1 Peter 3:18

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

That word bring is the greek word prosagó
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(4317) (prosagó from pros = toward, facing + agō = to go) is used of a person who brings another into the presence of a third party. prosagó describes someone being introduced or given access to another. In classical Greek the noun form prosagōgē refers to the one making the introduction. In ancient courts certain officials controlled access to the king. They verified someone's right to see him and then introduced that person to the monarch. Christ now performs that function for believers. He opened the way of access to God.




brightfame52 said:
Its the same word Jesus uses here Jn 10:16
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The word prosagó is not used in John 10:16.

John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring [Greek = agō], and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.




brightfame52 said:
He brings them by the power and effect of His Death.
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:rolleyes: ... nope. The Lord Jesus Christ brings those who believe in Him into the presence of God by "the power and effect" of His resurrection and His ascension into heaven ... where He sits at the right hand of the Father.




brightfame52 said:
He brings them by the power and effect of His Death. That is why the writer of Hebrews writes they come to God by Him Heb 7:25
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Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

The words "seeing he ever liveth" should clue you in to the fact that He is no longer on the cross ... He was resurrected and He ascended up into heaven where He ever liveth to make intercession for those who come unto God by Him. He continually represents us before the Father so that we can draw near through Him, and He defends us against Satan’s accusations and attacks.


Quit re-writing Scripture in your futile attempt to align Scripture to your dogma. You are to align your dogma to Scripture and where you are in error, let go of the error.


2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
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brightfame52

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reneweddaybyday said:
(4317) (prosagó from pros = toward, facing + agō = to go) is used of a person who brings another into the presence of a third party. prosagó describes someone being introduced or given access to another. In classical Greek the noun form prosagōgē refers to the one making the introduction. In ancient courts certain officials controlled access to the king. They verified someone's right to see him and then introduced that person to the monarch. Christ now performs that function for believers. He opened the way of access to God.





The word prosagó is not used in John 10:16.

John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring [Greek = agō], and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.





:rolleyes: ... nope. The Lord Jesus Christ brings those who believe in Him into the presence of God by "the power and effect" of His resurrection and His ascension into heaven ... where He sits at the right hand of the Father.





Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

The words "seeing he ever liveth" should clue you in to the fact that He is no longer on the cross ... He was resurrected and He ascended up into heaven where He ever liveth to make intercession for those who come unto God by Him. He continually represents us before the Father so that we can draw near through Him, and He defends us against Satan’s accusations and attacks.


Quit re-writing Scripture in your futile attempt to align Scripture to your dogma. You are to align your dogma to Scripture and where you are in error, let go of the error.


2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
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reneweddaybyday said:
(4317) (prosagó from pros = toward, facing + agō = to go) is used of a person who brings another into the presence of a third party. prosagó describes someone being introduced or given access to another. In classical Greek the noun form prosagōgē refers to the one making the introduction. In ancient courts certain officials controlled access to the king. They verified someone's right to see him and then introduced that person to the monarch. Christ now performs that function for believers. He opened the way of access to God.





The word prosagó is not used in John 10:16.

John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring [Greek = agō], and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.





:rolleyes: ... nope. The Lord Jesus Christ brings those who believe in Him into the presence of God by "the power and effect" of His resurrection and His ascension into heaven ... where He sits at the right hand of the Father.





Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

The words "seeing he ever liveth" should clue you in to the fact that He is no longer on the cross ... He was resurrected and He ascended up into heaven where He ever liveth to make intercession for those who come unto God by Him. He continually represents us before the Father so that we can draw near through Him, and He defends us against Satan’s accusations and attacks.


Quit re-writing Scripture in your futile attempt to align Scripture to your dogma. You are to align your dogma to Scripture and where you are in error, let go of the error.


2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
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More opposition to the effectual working of Christs Atoning death, you have been nothing but an adversary against Christ. BTW His Resurrection is vital to the success of His Death, through and by it those He died for experience a New Birth 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

So they go together, that's why those He died for are brought to God, they have new life given to them, and that's why they believe.
 
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Nufan

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brightfame52 said:
More opposition to the effectual working of Christs Atoning death, you have been nothing but an adversary against Christ. BTW His Resurrection is vital to the success of His Death, through and by it those He died for experience a New Birth 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

So they go together, that's why those He died for are brought to God, they have new life given to them, and that's why they believe.
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Why do you care so much about convincing us to agree with you. There's no reason for us to have to agree with you. Cause either we're wrong and we benefit from it, or we're right, and we still benefit. Whereas, if you're right, then you benefit from it. And if you're wrong then you're not Improper alignment to receive the benefits. But let me just ask, what happens to me if I choose not to accept this doctrin? But I still continue to live as a god fearing god loving christian?
 
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brightfame52

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It saved them from the penalty of their sins!

False religion can't accept this tremendous Gospel Truth which is this, every sinner Christ died for, or tasted death for, they have been saved from the penalty of their sins, Heb 1:3

Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

This purging of their sins is a completed perfect work Deut 32:4!

The word purge here is the greek word katharismos:
cleansing, purifying, purification, literal, ceremonial, or moral; met: expiation.
a cleansing from the guilt of sins

That is the guilt they contracted in Adam, and then their own personal sins guilt!The guilt acquired by sinning against Gods moral law.The Penal law has been satisfied for them by His God Honoring purging Death! 59
 
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Nufan

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brightfame52 said:
It saved them from the penalty of their sins!

False religion can't accept this tremendous Gospel Truth which is this, every sinner Christ died for, or tasted death for, they have been saved from the penalty of their sins, Heb 1:3

Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

This purging of their sins is a completed perfect work Deut 32:4!

The word purge here is the greek word katharismos:
cleansing, purifying, purification, literal, ceremonial, or moral; met: expiation.
a cleansing from the guilt of sins

That is the guilt they contracted in Adam, and then their own personal sins guilt!The guilt acquired by sinning against Gods moral law.The Penal law has been satisfied for them by His God Honoring purging Death! 59
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That's not what I asked.I'm aware of what you believe this has accomplished, what i'm asking is what will happen to me if I choose not to believe that this is true.
 
fredoheaven

fredoheaven

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Nov 17, 2015
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brightfame52 said:
False comment, Christs sacrifice took away sins whether a person repents or not, its by no means dependent upon the doings of man, thats borderline blasphemy,

Heb 9 26

For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

1 Jn 3:5

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

May God have mercy on you friend for such a Christ dishonoring comment
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You must believe to be saved from the penalty of sin. "Beleive on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved Acts 16:31. Yes Christ is to take our sins if one believes.
 
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Nufan

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brightfame52 said:
False
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Okay, if you're not gonna answer my questions and inform me, if my salvation is at risk for denying this doctrine, then either you're avoiding the question, or there's no point in you even having the conversation, because when you're talking about someone who is a God fearing, god loving Christian, and follows Christ, then it really doesn't matter if they believe doctrine or not. So therefore, you're essentially arguing over something that has no need to be argued over, and the best you're gonna accomplish as being a stumbling block for those who are living a life where they fear god and want to be right with god. You're saying that they don't need to be concerned with their salvation because it's already been fulfilled and accomplished through Christ's death on the cross, and his resurrection. OK great. Then it doesn't matter if they still fear God and desire to want to be right with him, and to walk in righteousness? What do you hope to achieve here? You just want people to agree with your dogma? You're looking to join a camp? Are you looking to start a religion?What are you trying to do? This just seems completely fruitless because if I'm not going to hell by not believing it. Then whats the point. You cant say its heresy because me rejecting this dagma and encouraging people to deny themselves and follow christ wont damn me neither. When I die and I go before God, it'll either be true or wrong. But it really has no bearing and importance on the life I live now. My only concern is that you won't fear.God and you won't make a sincere priority in your life to get right with god and therefore fall short and not inherit the kingdom of heaven due to this dogma which means your committing heresy and trying to lead others down the wide path. So, please answer me very simply. Will I go to hell by rejecting this dogma? Will I go to hell by denying myself taking up my cross and following after christ? Will I go to hell by becoming a slave to righteousness?
 
fredoheaven

fredoheaven

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Nov 17, 2015
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brightfame52 said:
It brings us to God !

Even though the religious unbelieving world can't and doesn't believe this, one of the effects of the atoning death of Christ is to bring chosen sinners to God 1 Peter 3:18

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

That word bring is the greek word prosagó and means:

Definition: I bring to, bring near; I come to or towards, approach.

Its the same word Jesus uses here Jn 10:16

King James Bible

And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

He brings them by the power and effect of His Death. That is why the writer of Hebrews writes they come to God by Him Heb 7:25

Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. 58
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John 10:9 I am the door; by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved... so is the condition "IF". Yes he will bring only that is his, those who met the condition.
 
fredoheaven

fredoheaven

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brightfame52 said:
More opposition to the effectual working of Christs Atoning death, you have been nothing but an adversary against Christ. BTW His Resurrection is vital to the success of His Death, through and by it those He died for experience a New Birth 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

So they go together, that's why those He died for are brought to God, they have new life given to them, and that's why they believe.
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Nop, It is always through faith "unto" salvation...1 Peter 1:5
It's putting faith to have life. Not having a life before faith.
 
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