Does thought(s) actually control us

[homwardbound]

Proverbs 23:7
for as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee.
Matthew 7:7
Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be
James 4:3
Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

I see, 'I" have done this verse above, anyone else? Of coarse I want, need, y'all "I" bet too

What is better in need?
To let go of doing what one knows is right, or give that up to have a place to live in?
It would be better for the below verses to include man in those verses too. Yet it did not get translated as that did it. Even though God called Adam's help-mate Adam. Adam called Her Eve, Bone of his bone, flesh of his flesh
\No separating male and female IMOP

1. Proverbs 21:9
   It is better to live in the corner of an attic than with a crabby woman in a lovely home.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
2. Proverbs 25:24
   It is better to live in a corner of an attic than in a beautiful home with a cranky, quarrelsome woman.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

1 Kings 4:21-23

Authorized (King James) Version

21 And Solomon reigned over all kingdoms from the river unto the land of the Philistines, and unto the border of Egypt: they brought presents, and served Solomon all the days of his life.
22 And Solomon’s provision for one day was thirty measures of fine flour, and threescore measures of meal, 23 ten fat oxen, and twenty oxen out of the pastures, and an hundred sheep, beside harts, and roebucks, and fallowdeer, and fatted fowl.

Why did Solomon get all this surplus, I know it was from God and so do we all. Why did God do this fro Solomon?

Because Solomon only wanted what is best for the people. Wisdom to judge correctly.
As their were two women, claiming the same baby, and that put Solomon in a betwixt.

God told Solomon what to say as we are told this today


Luke 21:14-15

Authorized (King James) Version

14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: 15 for I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

Seeking, daily for God Father's lead in risen
Son Jesus for me and y'all, I hope too, thank you

 

[studentoftheword]

Does thought(s) actually control us


You Win or Loose the Spiritual War in your mind ------Your Body will move to your thoughts ----that is why it is so important to cast down bad thoughts and replace them with God's Word ----

 

[Cameron143]

Our minds do not control us...our hearts do. The heart is the wellspring of life. When we are given new hearts and indwelt by the Holy Spirit, we are given, in essence, the mind of Christ. We should be continually renew our minds and take thoughts captive, but we should not neglect to delight ourselves in the Lord; for therein does God give us the very desires into our hearts that supply our thoughts and actions.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Proverbs 23:7
for as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee.
Matthew 7:7
Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be
James 4:3
Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

I see, 'I" have done this verse above, anyone else? Of coarse I want, need, y'all "I" bet too

What is better in need?
To let go of doing what one knows is right, or give that up to have a place to live in?
It would be better for the below verses to include man in those verses too. Yet it did not get translated as that did it. Even though God called Adam's help-mate Adam. Adam called Her Eve, Bone of his bone, flesh of his flesh
\No separating male and female IMOP

1. Proverbs 21:9
   It is better to live in the corner of an attic than with a crabby woman in a lovely home.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
2. Proverbs 25:24
   It is better to live in a corner of an attic than in a beautiful home with a cranky, quarrelsome woman.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

1 Kings 4:21-23

Authorized (King James) Version

21 And Solomon reigned over all kingdoms from the river unto the land of the Philistines, and unto the border of Egypt: they brought presents, and served Solomon all the days of his life.
22 And Solomon’s provision for one day was thirty measures of fine flour, and threescore measures of meal, 23 ten fat oxen, and twenty oxen out of the pastures, and an hundred sheep, beside harts, and roebucks, and fallowdeer, and fatted fowl.

Why did Solomon get all this surplus, I know it was from God and so do we all. Why did God do this fro Solomon?

Because Solomon only wanted what is best for the people. Wisdom to judge correctly.
As their were two women, claiming the same baby, and that put Solomon in a betwixt.

God told Solomon what to say as we are told this today


Luke 21:14-15

Authorized (King James) Version

14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: 15 for I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

Seeking, daily for God Father's lead in risen
Son Jesus for me and y'all, I hope too, thank you

were called to hear and believe the gospel the reason is that if we do that it will change how we think about God , ourselves , other people the world we live in life and death ect


we need to take our corrupted mind nd let it be made new by the knowledge given to his by the lord in the gospel

“And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭12:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Hearing and believing the truth does that

“But ye have not so learned Christ; if so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; and be renewed in the spirit of your mind; and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:20-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

A sinners mind is wrong we need to accept the truth to renew it. Without the gospel none of us actually know the lord

“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:20‬ ‭

Adam was led astray by the wrong improper knowledge in Eden in Christ we are brought back throughout th the right knowledge in the gospel and the simplicity of hearing what the lord actually said will save us and believing it

our issue is when we hear what he said it’s often not what we already thought so then we interpret it away in other words we ignore what he said because we’re comfortable with what we already think

the trouble is our mind can’t change if we reject the truth that’s correcting it. Changing our mind is what the gospel is always doing if we stick to it learning and believing the lord

 

[maxwel]

Our minds do not control us...our hearts do. The heart is the wellspring of life. When we are given new hearts and indwelt by the Holy Spirit, we are given, in essence, the mind of Christ. We should be continually renew our minds and take thoughts captive, but we should not neglect to delight ourselves in the Lord; for therein does God give us the very desires into our hearts that supply our thoughts and actions.

If you're going to make that distinction....
can you give definitions for mind and heart, and then give proofs for your definitions?

.

 

[Cameron143]

If you're going to make that distinction....
can you give definitions for mind and heart, and then give proofs for your definitions?

.

That's a fair ask because I certainly oversimplified a somewhat complicated subject, but I will have to take a little time to do as you ask. But if you don't mind the wait, I'll get back to you later.

 

[Cameron143]

If you're going to make that distinction....
can you give definitions for mind and heart, and then give proofs for your definitions?

.

I actually think there are 3 aspects of man at play in the activity of man...the heart, the mind, and the will. The mind in the information center where stimuli is gathered to and processed. The heart is the seat of desire, the wellspring of life...Proverbs 4:23...through which the information is evaluated for use. And the will is the entity that carries out the responses.
My initial response wasn't exactly accurate, and perhaps this was the point you were making. Thoughts can be driven by outward stimuli as well as inwardly. But regardless of the source of the stimuli, it is the heart that governs what we do with them. Out of the abundance of the heart that the mouth speaks...Matthew 12:34.
There are a couple of places in scripture that have all 3 mentioned in the same verse. One is Romans 6:17 speaking of the believer...obeyed...the will, from the heart...the heart, that form of doctrine...the mind. Another is Acts 2:37...when they heard this...the mind, they were pricked in their hearts,...the heart, and said...the will.

 

[Burn1986]

though God called Adam's help-mate Adam. Adam called Her Eve, Bone of his bone, flesh of his flesh
\No separating male and female IMOP

Theres a lot going on in this. Not sure why you’re trying to say God didn’t create “male” and “female”?

 

[Magenta]

Matthew 7:7
Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be

Matthew 7:7-8

 

[The_old_guy]

Our minds do not control us...our hearts do. The heart is the wellspring of life. When we are given new hearts and indwelt by the Holy Spirit, we are given, in essence, the mind of Christ. We should be continually renew our minds and take thoughts captive, but we should not neglect to delight ourselves in the Lord; for therein does God give us the very desires into our hearts that supply our thoughts and actions.

I did a word-study of the word "heart" in the Bible while in seminary. It is not the pump in our chest, of course. It is the center of our personality the contains our feelings, thoughts, and decisions.

 

[Magenta]

Does thought(s) actually control us


You Win or Loose the Spiritual War in your mind ------Your Body will move to your thoughts ----
that is why it is so important to cast down bad thoughts and replace them with God's Word ----

View attachment 264641

2 Corinthians 10:4 plus Matthew 24:6~ The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.

 

[maxwel]

I actually think there are 3 aspects of man at play in the activity of man...the heart, the mind, and the will. The mind in the information center where stimuli is gathered to and processed. The heart is the seat of desire, the wellspring of life...Proverbs 4:23...through which the information is evaluated for use. And the will is the entity that carries out the responses.
My initial response wasn't exactly accurate, and perhaps this was the point you were making. Thoughts can be driven by outward stimuli as well as inwardly. But regardless of the source of the stimuli, it is the heart that governs what we do with them. Out of the abundance of the heart that the mouth speaks...Matthew 12:34.
There are a couple of places in scripture that have all 3 mentioned in the same verse. One is Romans 6:17 speaking of the believer...obeyed...the will, from the heart...the heart, that form of doctrine...the mind. Another is Acts 2:37...when they heard this...the mind, they were pricked in their hearts,...the heart, and said...the will.

I appreciate you thinking through this, and making an effort to answer more articulately.

Different Christian philosophers and theologians all deal with this differently, and would offer different answers.
I could post more scripture, and logical arguments, but I think you see the point here:
it's a very complex issue, and it may be one of those areas in scripture where the data is underdeterminative.

For the sake of this thread, it might be best to just revisit the title, and rethink the thesis.
"Do our thoughts control us?"
The thesis doesn't specify mind or heart, but just thoughts.
As you described the heart, mind and will, you were clearly describing different centers of spirit or consciousness for which "thoughts" occur in each. Thoughts can be seen to occur, even by your own definitions, in each of those places.
So for the sake of this thread, making a distinction between mind and heart (if such distinction truly exists ontologically) would seem to be beyond the scope of the thesis.

Wherever thoughts do occur... they do indeed seem to be handling the steering.

Interesting stuff, but terribly messy and complicated.
Have a great week.


.

 

[Magenta]

“And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that
ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.” ‭‭Romans‬ ‭12:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Romans 12:2

 

[The_old_guy]

I appreciate you thinking through this, and making an effort to answer more articulately.

Different Christian philosophers and theologians all deal with this differently, and would offer different answers.
I could post more scripture, and logical arguments, but I think you see the point here:
it's a very complex issue, and it may be one of those areas in scripture where the data is underdeterminative.

For the sake of this thread, it might be best to just revisit the title, and rethink the thesis.
"Do our thoughts control us?"
The thesis doesn't specify mind or heart, but just thoughts.
As you described the heart, mind and will, you were clearly describing different centers of spirit or consciousness for which "thoughts" occur in each. Thoughts can be seen to occur, even by your own definitions, in each of those places.
So for the sake of this thread, making a distinction between mind and heart (if such distinction truly exists ontologically) would seem to be beyond the scope of the thesis.

Wherever thoughts do occur... they do indeed seem to be handling the steering.

Interesting stuff, but terribly messy and complicated.
Have a great week.


.

My God bless you too!

 

[Lifted_by_the_word]

A carnal mind isn't just someone who isn't saved,but a worldly mind that goes to and fro on the earth as satan when asked where did he come from.
That's exactly what the mind does.Think of it as Jesus when he was tempted by satan.He's the head of the church.If you want to make him the head of your temple/church,the foundation of your thoughts and actions should be rooted on his word.They should be on Jesus.
Nobody is perfect and the carnal mind will wonder to and fro on the the things of the earth temping you.
If you call a Christian carnal minded they'll get offended because most think that only unborn again people are carnal minded.
Giving into a carnal mind can be as simple as stressing out over something.
People can be tempted by a carnal mind daily.

John 10:9
I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

 

[Cameron143]

I appreciate you thinking through this, and making an effort to answer more articulately.

Different Christian philosophers and theologians all deal with this differently, and would offer different answers.
I could post more scripture, and logical arguments, but I think you see the point here:
it's a very complex issue, and it may be one of those areas in scripture where the data is underdeterminative.

For the sake of this thread, it might be best to just revisit the title, and rethink the thesis.
"Do our thoughts control us?"
The thesis doesn't specify mind or heart, but just thoughts.
As you described the heart, mind and will, you were clearly describing different centers of spirit or consciousness for which "thoughts" occur in each. Thoughts can be seen to occur, even by your own definitions, in each of those places.
So for the sake of this thread, making a distinction between mind and heart (if such distinction truly exists ontologically) would seem to be beyond the scope of the thesis.

Wherever thoughts do occur... they do indeed seem to be handling the steering.

Interesting stuff, but terribly messy and complicated.
Have a great week.


.

I appreciate what you have shared and always appreciate your insights, I respectfully disagree with your conclusion. I would argue that it is the desires within the heart when informed by the mind that compels actions. But as you mentioned, this is perhaps beyond the scope of the OP, and perhaps finding out.

 

[Magenta]

Adam was led astray by the wrong improper knowledge in Eden in Christ we are brought back throughout the
right knowledge in the gospel and the simplicity of hearing what the lord actually said will save us and believing it

our issue is when we hear what he said it’s often not what we already thought so then we interpret
it away in other words we ignore what he said because we’re comfortable with what we already think

the trouble is our mind can’t change if we reject the truth that’s correcting it. Changing our
mind is what the gospel is always doing if we stick to it learning and believing the lord

Matthew 25:21
Thank you for the inspiration .

 

[homwardbound]

Theres a lot going on in this. Not sure why you’re trying to say God didn’t create “male” and “female”?

That is not what is said

Genesis 5

Living Bible

5 Here is a list of some of the descendants of Adam[a]—the man who was like God from the day of his creation.2 God created man and woman and blessed them, and called them Man from the start.

Genesis 2:23
And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

 

[maxwel]

I appreciate what you have shared and always appreciate your insights, I respectfully disagree with your conclusion. I would argue that it is the desires within the heart when informed by the mind that compels actions. But as you mentioned, this is perhaps beyond the scope of the OP, and perhaps finding out.

"I would argue that it is the desires within the heart when informed by the mind..."

Desires in the heart aren't thoughts?
Is that your proposition?
Did I misunderstand?
If that's your conclusion, I think you'll have a really hard time trying to prove that.

Define "desires in the heart."
Let's get a definition.
Then let's try to prove that's not a thought... I don't think that's going to work.

I think this line of reasoning ends in semantic absurdity here, and it will necessarily rely on pure presupposition.




As I said before, this is very messy stuff, and it's isn't required to answer the thesis of the OP.
God Bless.

.

 

[Cameron143]

"I would argue that it is the desires within the heart"

Desires in the heart aren't thoughts?
I think you'll have a really hard time trying to prove that.

Define "desires in the heart."
Let's get a definition.
Then let's try to prove that's not a thought... don't think that's gonna work.

I think this line of reasoning ends in semantic absurdity here, and it will necessarily rely on pure presupposition.




As I said before, this is very messy stuff, and it's isn't required to answer the thesis of the OP.
God Bless.

.

The question was whether or not our thoughts control us. Of course desires aren't thoughts. I simply said I believe that it is thoughts filtered through the prism of the understanding of the heart that directs the thoughts into action.