Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

[FollowerofShiloh]

NKJ Proverbs 1:23 Turn at my rebuke; Surely I will pour out my spirit on you; I will make my words known to you.

This is Hebrew parallelism: I will pour out my Spirit on you = I will make my words know to you.

It definitely aligns with the words of Jesus
63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

 

[Magenta]

Disagree but in my haste, I slightly mis-quoted the verse, however, I do not believe it fundamentally changed its meaning.
This is directly from the Bible. I don't see where any restriction or limitation explicitly or implicitly placed upon whom the
verse was intended to be for. It is a statement intended for all who read it. After all, it was written by God, not man, and as such, it was an instruction to man regarding how the Bible is to be approached in order to find its message.

[2Pe 1:19-20 KJV]
19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

What is being written about is the surety of prophecy, being as a light that shines in the dark, which did not originate from the prophet's interpretation but what was given from God. I understand that few see it that way, as a statement intended to assure us that we are reading what God intended and not what the prophet thought God was trying to say.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Peter’s words pierced their hearts, and they said to him and to the other apostles, “Brothers, what should we do?”
NIV Acts 2:37

Makes sense to me, man made doctrines make everything complicated, reality is simple, simple enough for a child to understand.

The inability to believe is not because God hasn't "pricked their ears" "transformed their heart" maybe the person did not have the openness of a child, maybe the person was not hearing the actual Gospel, maybe they did not want to humble themselves, maybe they did not want to be set free from sin.... we cannot know each persons mind and why they reject or accept.

How it must grieve Jesus who gave His all and simply state BELIEVE IN/TRUST IN to have "supposed" theologians pile on top of it, if a person is unable to believe of their own ability then each time the Gospel is preached for some it is a false hope and a false expectation.

God does not give false hope, it is ridiculous to think this.

Plain and simple.

Amen and excellent example given

 

[Magenta]

How many times have you met someone and chose not to be a witness to them?
You control whether the Divine Appointment ever happens.
This doctrine God made me be saved is laughable.
Why didn't God open your mouth to be a Witness whenever you chose not to be one but had the opportunity to be one?
We're all guilty.
But we control many times whether the Divine Appointment happens or not.

However much control you may have to participate does not make you the creator of the divine appointment.

Laugh all you want at Christ making you alive while you were dead. I am grateful He did, for me.

 

[Cameron143]

What is being written about is the surety of prophecy, being as a light that shines in the dark, which did not originate from the prophet's interpretation but what was given from God. I understand that few see it that way, as a statement intended to assure us that we are reading what God intended and not what the prophet thought God was trying to say.

You are both correct. The limitation is upon the prophet, but it is a reminder to us as well.

 

[rogerg]

What is being written about is the surety of prophecy, being as a light that shines in the dark, which did not originate from the prophet's interpretation but what was given from God. I understand that few see it that way, as a statement intended to assure us that we are reading what God intended and not what the prophet thought God was trying to say.

The whole Bible is prophecy. The New Testament writers were prophets too.

[Rom 12:6 KJV] 6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, [let us prophesy] according to the proportion of faith;

[1Co 12:10 KJV] 10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another [divers] kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

[1Co 13:2 KJV] 2 And though I have [the gift of] prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

However much control you may have to participate does not make you the creator of the divine appointment.

Laugh all you want at Christ making you alive while you were dead. I am grateful He did, for me.

The Believer is the vessel to spread the Gospel.
So is God making you be a Witness, is He dragging you to the person and moving your mouth to Witness against your will or are you doing it for God because you are following His Command to Go and make Disciples?

Either you are a puppet/robot being made to do it or you do it in your free will to be a Witness to others.

 

[CS1]

that's a great question.

The Lords a new heart in us and there renew the mind by the word of God

what I mean broke key board I have LOL:

the Lord gives us new heart and we receive a new mind ( mind of Christ) by the word of God.

the sanitifcation process produces renewal. It is the mind that has to be renewal because of the flesh that is the on going battle until we are glorified.

Unsaved do not have the mind of Christ, they are dead men walking.

 

[Magenta]

The Believer is the vessel to spread the Gospel.
So is God making you be a Witness, is He dragging you to the person and moving your mouth to Witness against
your will or are you doing it for God because you are following His Command to Go and make Disciples?

Where does this idea that God forced me come from? I have said no such thing.

Enabling you to do something is not forcing you to do anything.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Where does this idea that God forced me come from? I have said no such thing.

It's part of the Divine Appointment scenario.

Whenever we witness it's a Divine Appointment.

So if you do not choose to Witness then the Divine Appointment never happens at that time, correct?

 

[PaulThomson]

If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear. Mark 4:23

The Greek word akouO means both to hear and to listen.

What is the difference in meaning between "If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear." Mark 4:23" ; and,
"If If anyone has ears to hear, let him listen." Mark 4:23; and,
"If anyone has ears to listen, let him listen." Mark 4:23 ?

And what would lead you to conclude that Mark must have meant "If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear."

 

[rogerg]

You are both correct. The limitation is upon the prophet, but it is a reminder to us as well.

I think that by it saying "is not of any private interpretation" directs us to look to other like verses
to find God's complete intent for the doctrine being communicated. There are many cases where we can read a verse
and on its surface, it appears to be complete and self-explanatory, yet, when we look further, we can find other verses that
significantly expound upon it, providing to its reader, a fuller definition. For example, (and I know this is an extreme example)
the Old Testament necessitated there also be a New Testament. Why? To complete and explain its doctrine, otherwise, it wouldn't have been necessary.

 

[Mem]

I was late starting school, having been expedited an emergency Visa during the Tet offensive in '77, and Mrs. Stump received a new student at Whiteriver Elementary, who felt totally out of place. But she didn't wrinkle her brow at me and let me know how ignorant I was. Rather, she welcomed me lovingly and taught me all that she had charge of and, halfway through the year, she (literally) drew me close and placed me upon her knee and explained that she had taught me all that I needed to be equipped with to move onto first grade and Miss Flasterer picked up my lessons from there on until I was ready to move to the next level. Neither of them insisted that I remain until I became a master each respective grade as they were. If any of my teachers had taken this approach, I'd surely wonder if my best interests had been at heart. Indeed, no one is greater than his master but there is no one that does not have the potential to exceed anyone else other than Christ Himself, whom is our standard.

 

[Magenta]

It's part of the Divine Appointment scenario.

Whenever we witness it's a Divine Appointment.

So if you do not choose to Witness then the Divine Appointment never happens at that time, correct?

Ah, I see, you are stuck on the idea that you create divine appointments... based on your willingness
to participate in them. I will say that being a participant in a divine appointment is a very awesome
experience. I will add that being a participant can mean being the one God sent, or the one God
sends someone to. I am pretty certain I have been on both sides of that equation.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Ah, I see, you are stuck on the idea that you create divine appointments... based on your willingness
to participate in them. I will say that being a participant in a divine appointment is a very awesome
experience. I will add that being a participant can mean being the one God sent, or the one God
sends someone to. I am pretty certain I have been on both sides of that equation.

Amen!
I am just saying for the Divine Appointment to actually take place we must actually do it or it never happens

 

[PaulThomson]

My goodness! A letter written to a certain people of a certain culture at a certain time of history is not meant to be understood by those people? And later people in different cultures don't have to take into account when the letter is written and to whom?

You've just destroyed hermeneutics.

Calvinism is eisegetics. Context (historical or cultural or biblical) is irrelevant to a calvinist, unless it supports their presuppositions, in which case they will use an appeal to context to support their case. But those who use context to support a case that disagrees with calvinism, they will assume must be misapplying the context to support false presuppositions.

 

[PaulThomson]

In the originals, each and every word was crafted and placed there by God, not man, and its truth/doctrines therefore timeless for all who read it irrespective of external factors.

And each and every word of the originals was chosen because of the meaning it would have conveyed to the scribe's contemporaries who were his audience. Everythingin the bible was written "for our edification. But not everything was written to us. "The words. "Build and ark of gopher wood," were not written to us, otherwise, where is your ark of gopher wood? But we can learn about God from the example of God's dealings with Noah. The command, "Build an ark of gopher wood," is not a command that is "timeless for all who read it irrespective of external factors."

 

[Magenta]

Amen!
I am just saying for the Divine Appointment to actually take place we must actually do it or it never happens

Acts 22:14 Then he said, ‘The God of our fathers has appointed you to know
His will, to see the Righteous One, and to hear the sound of His voice.

That's a pretty good proof text for the convo regarding God making it possible,
and making the first move... and creating the divine appointment.

There are some "appointed" verses from Jonah as well (these are from the HSCB):

Jonah 1:17 Now the Lord had appointed a huge fish to swallow Jonah, and Jonah was in the fish three days and three nights.

Jonah 4:6-8 Then the LORD God appointed a plant, and it grew up to provide shade over Jonah’s head to ease his
discomfort. Jonah was greatly pleased with the plant. When dawn came the next day, God appointed a worm that
attacked the plant, and it withered. As the sun was rising, God appointed a scorching east wind. The sun beat down
so much on Jonah’s head that he almost fainted, and he wanted to die. He said, “It’s better for me to die than to live.”

 

[Niki7]

I see you are still unable to give a biblical response and continue to play games.

View attachment 264629

you cannot see anything except what your Calvinist beliefs allow you to see

every single person who has ever read any post from me, including this thread, knows I have posted alot of scripture

you simply ignore anything you cannot respond to without making a mess out of scripture and you make personal comments towards people and say they have not provided scripture

I know the Bible says do not bear false witness.....haven't seen that?

 

[Niki7]

if you consistently continue to believe what you do then you are deceived into a false gospel and a false Christ who can not save anyone.

1. The Christ of Arminianism - loves every individual person in the world and sincerely desires their salvation.

The Christ of the Bible - earnestly loves and desires the salvation of only those whom God has unconditionally chosen to salvation. (Ps. 5:5, Ps. 7:11, Ps. 11:5, Matt. 11:27, John 17:9-10, Acts 2:47, Acts 13:48, Rom. 9:10-13, Rom. 9:21-24, Eph. 1:3-4)

2. The Christ of Arminianism - offers salvation to every sinner and does all in his power to bring them to salvation. His offer and work are often frustrated, for many refuse to come.

The Christ of the Bible - effectually calls to Himself only the elect and sovereignly brings them to salvation. Not one of them will be lost. (Isa. 55:11, John 5:21, John 6:37-40, John 10:25-30, John 17:2, Phil. 2:13)

3. The Christ of Arminianism - can not regenerate and save a sinner who does not first choose Christ with his own "free will." All men have a "free will" by which they can either accept or reject Christ. That "free will" may not be violated by Christ.

The Christ of the Bible - sovereignly regenerates the elect sinner apart from his choice, for without regeneration the spiritually dead sinner can not choose Christ. Faith is not man's contribution to salvation but the gift of Christ which He sovereignly imparts in regeneration. (John 3:3, John 6:44 & 65, John 15:16, Acts 11:18, Rom. 9:16, Eph. 2:1,Eph. 2:8-10, Phil. 1:29, Hebr. 12:2)

4. The Christ of Arminianism - died on the cross for every individual person and thereby made it possible for every person to be saved. His death, apart from the choice of man, was not able to actually save anyone for many for whom he died are lost.

The Christ of the Bible - died for only God's elect people and thereby actually obtained salvation for all those for whom He died. His death was a substitutionary satisfaction which actually took away the guilt of His chosen people. (Luke 19:10, John 10:14-15 & 26, Acts 20:28, Rom. 5:10, Eph. 5:25, Hebr. 9:12, I Peter 3:18)

5. The Christ of Arminianism - loses many whom he has "saved" because they do not continue in faith. Even if he does give them "eternal security," as some say, that security is not based upon his will or work but the choice which the sinner made when he accepted Christ.

The Christ of the Bible - preserves His chosen people so that they can not lose their salvation but persevere in the faith to the very end. He preserves them by the sovereign electing will of God, the power of His death, and the mighty working of His Spirit. (John 5:24, John 10:26-29, Rom. 8:29-30, Rom. 8:35-39, I Peter 1:2-5, Jude 24-25)

As you can see, although the Christ of Arminianism and the Christ of the Bible may at first seem to be the same, they are very different. One is a false Christ. The other is the true Christ. One is weak and helpless. He bows before the sovereign "free will" of man. The other is the reigning Lord Who wills what He pleases and sovereignly accomplishes all that He wills.

If you believe and serve the Christ of Arminianism, you must recognize the fact that you do not serve the Christ of the Bible. You have been deceived! Study the Scriptures and learn of the True Christ. Pray for grace to repent and trust Christ as your sovereign Savior.

I am not Arminian as I have stated numerous times both to you and others of your kind

get some fresh air. your post are getting rather stale