I think they also believe if they could shut up those who oppose them they could force others to follow them.
Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR
- Thread starter MerSee
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Yes, there something very strange about this doctrine and what it does to people.
20? That I said fallen man doesn't understand things or do anything spiritual? Can you share the post numbers?
Basically within the first few posts debating roger, brightflame, rufus, maxir, the guy with the picture of Jesus from the Passion movie no longer here, and others I was immediately told how stupid I was. I can go back in history and post them and when you them you clearly see them telling me my level of understanding is less than stupidity itself. That's their entire platform. The moment they present the verses they use to describe TULIP and you actually take each verse and show them where participation is happening they immediately come at you with how dumb you are.
I did a research with a licensed therapist about children brought up in an environment of verbal and mental abuse and learned most of them act the same way. And worse than that, growing up they had all types of issues. Being called stupid caused their bodies to react uncontrollably which then resulted into more insults. We're talking about high school age human beings still wetting their beds, being socially inept, bad grades, loners who became adults that attack anyone that differs with their own thoughts.
I feel like I am in a Case Study each time I log onto here every day.
The last discussion I showed you the only people, Leaders of Israel, who were actually filled with the Holy Spirit and you claimed everyone was and the Bible never claimed such a thing. The Bible even specified who was.
This was a natural man discussion just a week ago.
Even cvs was taking the references I gave and proofing them for accuracy and I was!
You made an accusation, I asked you to show where your claims are true, and you continue to say they are without producing where.
You also made another false statement about what I have claimed. I never said everyone was filled with the Spirit. So you have inaccurately characterized more of what I posted. And you are a pastor, right?
That should say, "Paul is also criticising an exhaustive divine pre-determinist who is denying that God's will can be resisted ("Who can resist His will?"), after Paul has just cited both the Edomites and Pharaoh as punished for resisting God's will.
these -isms are way above my Proverbs 3:34 'grace' and 11:2 'lowly' simpleton 'paygrade' - please carry on...
Amen.
I said you make claims about the natural man not understanding God. Are you denying you do that?
The heart is invisible, intangible inner man (the soul and spirit) that inhabits the physical, tangible outer man (the flesh).
The spirit of the Christian is perfect and pure, but his mind still needs ongoing renewal, and his body needs to be kept in check by the perfect spirit and the renewing mind until it is changed at the resurrection.
I think we agree that both the inner and outer man are imperfect and diseased. The inner is imperfect because of the imperfect thinking and the body because our instincts are opposed to principles expressed in the Sermon on the Mount. Total depravity is a misnomer. Even Calvinists deny "total depravity" is true, but rather than be honest and rename their theory to correctly describe their actual beliefs, they use the words "total depravity", but claim the words together do not mean for them what they literally do mean. They want to change the meanings of words, rather than choose correct words. Such dissimulation cripples attempts at clear communication.
Can we agree that an apple that is more than 0% rotten is a bad apple?
Can we agree that an apple that is 90% rotten is a bad apple?
Can we agree that the 10% of that last apple is good, even though the apple is bad?
Can we agree that it is possible for a seed taken from a bad apple to produce a good tree?
Can we agree that we could possibly make a good apple pie from the good parts of 20 bad apples?
Can we agree that the Holy Spirit in our perfect Christian spirit is a spring that we can access to produce good?
Can we agree that our unrenewed soul/mind is also a spring that we can access to produce bad?
Can we agree that both our spirit and our soul are in our heart?
Can we agree that we therefore have two well-springs in our heart, not one.
Can we agree that, depending on which source we rely upon as the source of our thoughts, imaginations and actions, we are capable of either good or evil actions, thoughts and imaginations?
Can we agree then that good untainted actions can come from the good parts of a bad person, if they source their actions from the good wellspring?
Can we agree that we being x% bad, are not good, but are bad. And God who is 100% good is good and not bad?
As a starting point for an continuing honest and frank discussion, could you please answer each if these questions, so we have some clear ground of agreement and disagreement to work from and discuss further? Could you please answer the questions yes or no, and then qualify your answer if you need to do so?
Show me the post you are referring to. You claimed there are at least 20 of them. I'm fine letting my posts speak for themselves.
These quotes are similar to ones you shared with me but these are to others concerning natural/unregenerate man.
These come from your RECENT past 30 posts literally 20 posts.
Right. But a person believes by faith. No natural man possesses faith.
This can only be done by faith. No fallen man possesses faith.
Correct. And since it is impossible to please God apart from faith, fallen man never pleases God. He is evil continually. That's why he requires a new heart.
You believe the unregenerate man has been given divine revelation?
And yet there are no fallen men who worship God in spirit and truth. Why is that?
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Natural man is fallen man is unregenerate man in your doctrine.
But you show natural man is unable to do do things concerning God on his own will and understanding time and time again and these are from your last 30 posts you made here at CC.
And I even could include the ones from our discussion but you speak about the condition of natural man a lot and now trying to back out of it.
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But nonetheless, we have an idea what you think about Natural Man and now you want me to believe Paul is saying Natural Man can understand he is the clay and God is the potter in Paul's question how can man question God?
You literally speak from both sides of your mouth.
Again, you made the same claim without proof. What did I say that was wrong in my posts? Is man fallen? Is he unregenerate? Does the natural man have faith in God? Is it possible to please God apart from faith? Has unregenerate man been given revelation from God? Can fallen man worship God in spirit and in truth?
Had you really gone back and tried to understand what I said and reported it fully, you would know I have been saying that the natural man still possesses all his faculties. Why no post about that? My guess is that you would have to admit that you characterized what I have said inaccurately and according to your own bias. You heard what you wanted to hear.
To be sure I believe man's faculties were corrupted by sin, and that mankind is different than he was created. But clearly man can think and emote as he did prior to sin.
I was only talking Fallen man:
Here's my post to you
And I addressed the same thing I said in this post
And now you're trying to create a rabbit hole.
I said you made claims about Fallen Man so it's impossible that Fallen Man could know they are the clay and God is the Potter.
Not so. I've said on more than one occasion that the natural man has use of his faculties. I've referred to Romans 1 and said repeatedly through creation man can know of the existence of God and Ecclesiastes 3 man knows God through his conscience. I have said further that man can understand the gospel and even recognize his estate before God. So you haven't shared either accurately or honestly about what I've shared.
But you aren't about to admit it, are you?
You think natural man, who believes in Evolution, thinks they are clay and God is the maker?
Romans 1 are people who KNOW GOD but refuse to admit He is God. <---Impossible to be Natural Man!
Romans 1:21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God <---Natural man has no idea who God is.