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Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR
- Thread starter MerSee
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Niki7
Guest
and true too though
I find them boring and so repetitve as to be...well....boring. Although admittedly I do have a somewhat low boredom threshold
the ridiculous anger and personal attacks just indicate the spirit behind that hateful doctrine
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Niki7
Guest
I appreciate your support
You know Brother, this is suppose to be a discussion board where people can share their theology and agree to disagree. Unfortunately, there's a group who approach it like they are at war. And I was like this is crazy. I am thinking we are all saved and Christians. But some only see they are the ones who are saved. And that made me want to understand because their doctrine alone is easily debatable. But when we think of former persons from this specific doctrine and how they had people killed and how they attack like everyone is on the warfront it made me look at what kind of people does this mentally and mentality attract to. And that led me to family structure and upbringing. Needless to say, in the deep South of the USA, it's even known as an inbred doctrine. And that kind of explains the actions of many who are part of this belief system.
I don't understand why people cannot admit when the text does not explicitly say something.
Especially after that same person has wished others would stick to what Scripture explicitly states.
But that is an issue also, isn't it? People don't want to see their hypocrisy. Jesus addressed that as well.
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Niki7
Guest
well ok
but it does seem that A & E were feeling very guilty...probably a new feeling for them but it came on pretty quick after their snack
well I'm not addressing hypocrisy but just what I see in the text...explicit or not (shrugs)
I'm not responding to comment about either of you in the discussion you're having, but just to say how much I agree with your statement. We should all be attempting to stick to what His Word says and assisting one another to do just that.
If we're speculating, we can say so.
Good comment.
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Niki7
Guest
I totally agree with the point you are making! The entire message of the Bible is the story of fallen man and the grace and mercy that God provides in abundance to those of His choosing!
It seems clear that since the fall, man lost the ability to love and obey the very God who created all things, including himself. It also seems clear to me that man cannot regain this ability in his own strength. God must intervene to mend the creation that He himself proclaimed was VERY GOOD. But in doing this, we must remember that God owes nothing at all to man (Adam). He would be totally just in leaving all men in their fallen state. However, in His love and undeserved mercy, He chose a people for himself. A people to be His!
Was the choice based on the fact that they were somehow better than all others? Were they stronger? Were they in anyway more deserving? The answer is NO! This was God's soveriegn choice!
As sinful men we wrongly proclaim – “this is not fair, God must treat all men the same”. But this is incorrect thinking. If we follow scripture we see that it teaches:
(1)Who are you, O man, to talk back to God? (Rom. 9:20), and with the words of our Savior, (2)Have I no right to do what I want with my own? (Matt. 20:15). And the apostle proclaims: (3)Oh, the depths of the riches both of the wisdom and the knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways beyond tracing out! For who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor? Or who has first given to God, that God should repay him? For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be the glory forever! Amen (Rom. 11:33-36).
So, to save His people, He gave us His very own Son – who died and rose again for the forgiveness of our sins. He also sends out proclaimers of this very joyful message to the people he wishes and at the time he wishes. By this ministry people are called to repentance and faith in Christ crucified. For how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without someone preaching? And how shall they preach unless they have been sent? (Rom. 10:14-15).
The Spirit must do a work within us which enables us to hear and believe. This, I believe, includes giving us a new heart. This action, to some degree, restores our lost ability to love and obey God!
The love of God and His mercy that is provided for His people is a mystery that we will never fully understand in this lifetime, but will fully understand once we are with Him!
To ignore the heart of man and why a whole new heart is required to reconcile man to God, to me, distorts the reality of fallen man. Once this is distorted, understanding his need and the actions of God in salvation are inevitably distorted as well.
It's funny that you cite those verses, because, if read in context, Paul is arguing there against an exhaustive divine determinist.
The Father gives those, who come to the Son, to Him. Iow, they are given to Him when they approach Him with faith, He reveals himself to Them and they become His. That He knows them before and sees them coming, we cannot surprise him or catch Him unawares by sneaking up on Him, does not negate that it is left to them to come to Him.
I gave three verses. I have yet to see you explain how Adam and Eve are excluded from being subject to what those verses say. You seem to think Genesis 3 must say the specific words "Adam and Eve felt guilt and shame after eating the fruit" for the Bible to be saying "Adam and Eve felt guilt and shame after eating the fruit."
Prov. 11:2 When pride comes, then comes shame; but with the lowly is wisdom.
Prov. 13:18 Poverty and shame shall be to him that refuses instruction, but he that regards reproof shall be honoured.
Rom. 5:16 for the judgment was by one (Adam) to condemnation.
You seem to be hiding behind ad hominem to avoid responding to the biblical texts.
Ah, yes, shame. Did I say shame was not mentioned? No, I did not. Guilt is not mentioned. Not even in the
verses you cite trying to prove your point, while avoiding the very salient fact that guilt is not mentioned.
You are of course free to assume they felt guilt. That you refuse to admit guilt is
not mentioned in the account of Adam and Eve speaks poorly of your character.
The texts you provide are just more deflections and avoidance.
No surprises there.
Sorry! I have added a disclaimer as part of my signature. Please read my posts with this warning in mind!
I will add for your benefit, and anyone else reading along who may be curious about all this,
that not too long ago, @PaulThomson invited me to show him where he went beyond what
the text actually says. In the meantime, on a number of occasions, I have pointed out where
and how he does this. Not once has he admitted to doing so. And that after decrying the fact
that others do not stick to what the Scriptures actually say. @BillyBob is a breath of fresh air! .
