Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

[maxamir]

you obviously have no idea what most others believe being concerned only with the spread of your false gospel of Calvinism saves

not answering my simple questions to you is proof that you are either completely ignorant of the truth of Scripture or do not value it enough to be able to give an answer as Scripture itself commands you to do.

Calvinism is the Gospel for in it is found the truth that salvation belongs to the Lord and not the choice of men, and those who consistently and continually argue against its truths simply prove that they are not yet humbled by God to see their desperate need of grace found only in the person ands work of Christ and foolishly still cling to their idolatry of will worship not realising that the longer they live and the more Scripture they hear only makes them more accountable before God and serves to fatten them up for His perfectly good, holy, righteous and just slaughter should they die in their sin and prove themselves to be reprobates, eternally and justly hated by God.

You should be thankful to God that He has used someone to love you enough to warn you in telling you this truth.

 

[PaulThomson]

I don't believe your conclusions are logical or biblical. Because of this, I don't think further discourse to be of any value. I do understand your positions and why you hold them; however, I don't believe your understanding is correct. Rather than engage in disparaging discussion, I would rather part company. Grace and peace.

But you haven't given any logical or biblical reason why I am wrong to believe that "God is love" means that everything He does is done out of love. You have simply said you don't like my understanding of agape love, even though it matches the Bible. And now you are taking your toys and going home before you have given a biblical reason for rejecting the biblical description of God and the agape love that the Bible says He is.

 

[Mem]

not answering my simple questions to you is proof that you are either completely ignorant of the truth of Scripture or do not value it enough to be able to give an answer as Scripture itself commands you to do.

Calvinism is the Gospel for in it is found the truth that salvation belongs to the Lord and not the choice of men, and those who consistently and continually argue against its truths simply prove that they are not yet humbled by God to see their desperate need of grace found only in the person ands work of Christ and foolishly still cling to their idolatry of will worship not realising that the longer they live and the more Scripture they hear only makes them more accountable before God and serves to fatten them up for His perfectly good, holy, righteous and just slaughter should they die in their sin and prove themselves to be reprobates, eternally and justly hated by God.

You should be thankful to God that He has used someone to love you enough to warn you in telling you this truth.

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Ah yes, so that's where Calvinist get it their smugness in logical fallacy! It makes so much sense now.
Humble thyself before the dead Calvinist gods or perish!

 

[studier]

The heart is the wellspring of life. It directs thought, speech, and actions. If it corrupt, so is every thought, word and action.
I want to be clear here. This doesn't mean every thought, word or action is wrong or evil. But it does mean that every thought, word, and action flows from an evil source.
I also want to be clear that evil as defined by God doesn't mean wicked or dastardly, though these are found in man and are included in the spectrum of evil. What makes that which flows from the heart evil is that it has no connection to God as its source.

Consider for a moment how God created us physically. We need oxygen at least every 3 minutes or we die. We need water every 3 days or we die. We need food every 30 days. Physically, we are dependent on God for these things continually or we die. If it's true that the unseen things of God are known by the things that are seen, what might the separation of man from God mean spiritually? How might the heart of man that was designed to be sustained and nurtured by God be altered when God is no longer its source? How might man's thoughts, words, and actions be altered? And what might be required in man for this to be restored to man?

Thanks, but non-responsive to my questions and diversion from what we were discussing.

 

[studier]

if you keep running when your presuppositions get pinned to the wall

First class condition I presume.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Ah yes, so that's where Calvinist get it their smugness in logical fallacy! It makes so much sense now.
Humble thyself before the dead Calvinist gods or perish!

In all of my years on earth I have never ever met a person who purposely became a follower of the Reformed doctrine.
They are ""always"" born into a family who already follows the doctrine.
But reading how they interact with human beings online reveals how their own childhood must've had to be like.

Reformed husband to wife and children, "hey MORONS, you're a special kind of stupid aren't ya?" Let me educate you idiots on something. I realize you're IGNORANT so I will talk really s.....l.....o.....w.....l.....y to you.

Must've been a joyous day when they saw their Dad in a casket

 

[studier]

to be spiritually dead does not mean that man can not understand some spiritual truths but that he does not want to understand these truths. It is not an issue of can't but won't.

Yet you and the tribe use 1Cor2:14 that clearly says "not able" to understand.

This is an example of why looking at the Scriptures you use to substantiate your theory proves your theory doesn't work. You're modifying and misinterpreting the Scripture.

It looks to me that this is why you do not want to analyze Scriptures in context. They look good on posters as purported proof-texts, but they don't hold up when read in context.

 

[Mem]

In all of my years on earth I have never ever met a person who purposely became a follower of the Reformed doctrine.
They are ""always"" born into a family who already follows the doctrine.
But reading how they interact with human beings online reveals how their own childhood must've had to be like.

Reformed husband to wife and children, "hey MORONS, you're a special kind of stupid aren't ya?" Let me educate you idiots on something. I realize you're IGNORANT so I will talk really s.....l.....o.....w.....l.....y to you.

Must've been a joyous day when they saw their Dad in a casket

Oh dear, I can't imagine the effect on the psyche of a child trying to reconcile his reason with unreason. Study time must've been anxiety inducing as it approached. Lesson one: You Are a Moron... Lesson two: Review of Lesson one

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Oh dear, I can't imagine the effect on the psyche of a child trying to reconcile his reason with unreason. Study time must've been anxiety inducing as it approached. Lesson one: You Are a Moron... Lesson two: Review of Lesson one

I believe the Holy Spirit opened my eyes to me that they talk as they were spoken to and brought up from a child.

We say they're rude but they keep pushing harder. I don't think they know any better or different. Almost makes me feel sorry for them.

Almost!

 

[studier]

This brings to mind the parable of the talents. Believing"...that He is and that He is... translates to me as a directive to not only believe but to believe rightly of Him. The first and second man doubled the talents given to them according to each one's own ability, but the third gained nothing from the one he had been given. He was afraid and wanted to play if 'safe' and didn't want to risk losing it so, he hid it in the ground. And ultimately, he lost it and was 'fired.' His talent was taken from him and given to the man with ten. But I can't help but note that, considering that he took from the man with the one and gave it to him with the ten, it has been left to assumption whether the master of those serves, when he "returned to settle accounts with them," had actually taken (re)possession of any of those talents besides from the one with one talent. It seems that, actually, he gifted those as their reward for being, "good and faithful servant."

You seem introspective with the Scriptures. Pondering the mind of Christ in Spirit is part of the beauty of them and our interaction with Him.

That last clause about believing He is a rewarder is one I ponder and keep in mind as I study His Word. Firstly, it speaks of His character. It speaks to our design to seek value, which in things like precious metals and stones, which the Word speaks of, is found in their purity. Turn this back to Him and He sees value in purity in all of His creation, including us. And so on...

Another thing that I pointed out is that the word translated "rewarder" is really a "wage payer." As I recall, there's another Greek word that is more suited for "rewarder." We still find theological sensitivities in translations and often in regard to "works." But the Word does not need protecting IMO. It's best to take it as it is written and learn to understand Him correctly.

There is a lot stated in that one verse and I was refreshed to see someone quote that part of it. So, thank you.

 

[studier]

the artful dodger

Just acknowledging your insight.

 

[studier]

Exactly. Until we are presented with Christ by hearing the gospel, we cannot put our faith IN HIM. But once we hear the gospel, we have a new potential Object of our native faith that we can focus our faith upon, if we choose to do so. We don't need to be given faith. We need to be presented with a saving focus for the faith we already have.

I'm just reposting this [boldly] and wondering why I'm not seeing any attempts at refuting it.

 

[Mem]

You seem introspective with the Scriptures. Pondering the mind of Christ in Spirit is part of the beauty of them and our interaction with Him.

That last clause about believing He is a rewarder is one I ponder and keep in mind as I study His Word. Firstly, it speaks of His character. It speaks to our design to seek value, which in things like precious metals and stones, which the Word speaks of, is found in their purity. Turn this back to Him and He sees value in purity in all of His creation, including us. And so on...

Another thing that I pointed out is that the word translated "rewarder" is really a "wage payer." As I recall, there's another Greek word that is more suited for "rewarder." We still find theological sensitivities in translations and often in regard to "works." But the Word does not need protecting IMO. It's best to take it as it is written and learn to understand Him correctly.

There is a lot stated in that one verse and I was refreshed to see someone quote that part of it. So, thank you.

While most might be happy to accept a diamond going only by its surface, which have many facets in itself, I'm all for using the loupe to examine each jewel.

 

[Mem]

I believe the Holy Spirit opened my eyes to me that they talk as they were spoken to and brought up from a child.

We say they're rude but they keep pushing harder. I don't think they know any better or different. Almost makes me feel sorry for them.

Almost!

There's no one that can escape the need to overcome unfortunate circumstances inherent in the living in this world.

 

[Niki7]

Does He send people to hell out of love?

yes He does

unless you do not think that God is love

actually though, people send themselves to hell. as has been pointed out mulitple times. the lake of fire was created for the devil and his angels. not for people

the Bible has the nerve to declare that people are without excuse as within themselves they know God exists....you will find that in scripture...perhaps you know where to find it and if not, there's a little homework for you

if a person believes that God predetermines who will go to hell they will not see that famous John 3:16 in the light of the rest of God's word to us, but will decapitate the true and obvious meaning and twist it into something else

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

There's no one that can escape the need to overcome unfortunate circumstances inherent in the living in this world.

Ain't that the truth indeed!

But the communication issue with the Reformed is unlike that to anyone else I talk to. Everyone, and I hate to use such a word, but seems normal in their communication. From Methodist, Wesleyan, Episcopalian, Catholic, Presbyterian, Pentecostal, Charismatic, etc. But when you have a discussion with the Reformed they talk down to you like they feel the need to overpower your views and break you into something they can mold.

That is upbringing. That's having a domineering parent that just did not instruct you, correct you, but they were brutal in doing so. It would be like a Dad teaching a son how to cast a rod and line. The reformed child would have feared failure so bad I bet many of them, and this you can find from psychological medical examples, probably were stutterers, bed-wetters, shell-shocked who grew into bullies.

It's probably easier for them to think God forced them to be saved because having them go door to door to share Jesus would be a complete and utter disaster. End up yelling at people they're supposed to be witnessing to. Calling them names. They fit the profiling 100%

 

[Moses_Young]

Their owner takes out their fingers.

I thought uncircumcised ears was a different sort of problem...

 

[Niki7]

Does not answer my question. Where does the text say Adam and Eve felt guilt?

Or, instead of deflecting, you could just admit the text does not say that they did.

Of course that would also show another instance where you go beyond what the text says.

And I know how very much you hate to admit that you do that...

they felt shame....covered themselves up and hid when God walked in the garden in the evening...like He did not know what had occurred

hiding pretty much admits guilt

I don't understand these word games

 

[Niki7]

not answering my simple questions to you is proof that you are either completely ignorant of the truth of Scripture or do not value it enough to be able to give an answer as Scripture itself commands you to do.

that's rubbish and you have nothing to say I have not heard before. you do what so many angry Calvinists do....rather than address scripture posted by non-Cals, you attack the person.

cheap shots, name calling, devisive and nasty scripture twisting posts are the calling card of Calvinists who have been taught to address people rather than scripture

it does not work for someone who is secure in Christ and understands the gospel as do I

 

[Eli1]

@FollowerofShiloh i always enjoy your insights and comments.
May God bless you richly and He already has.