Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR
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Ridiculous. You should have been able to relate 6:39 to 6:40 because 6:39 is the basis for 6:40 - they are not independent of each other. Your reply is not worth anything further from me.
Such a great chapter! Among several other things, we also must hear and learn from the Father John6:45.
PaulThomson said:
Faith is a natural faculty all people possess. Otherwise you would never act expecting a particular outcome. Saving faith is that native faith directed toward a person or persons who can save.
A gospel-ignorant child can go to a tap and turn it on expecting water to come out. They have faith that water will come out. An octogenarian atheist can do the same. They have faith. Every person has faith. But to start being saved from our guilt we must direct that faith toward Jesus as dying for sins and rising from the dead as Lord.
Faith is a natural faculty all people possess. Otherwise you would never act expecting a particular outcome. Saving faith is that native faith directed toward a person or persons who can save.
A gospel-ignorant child can go to a tap and turn it on expecting water to come out. They have faith that water will come out. An octogenarian atheist can do the same. They have faith. Every person has faith. But to start being saved from our guilt we must direct that faith toward Jesus as dying for sins and rising from the dead as Lord.
No. It isn't necessary for man to believe a lie. And I'm not talking about what man is able to accomplish given his use of his corrupted faculties. I have already assented that man has use of them. But they are not as they were before sin. How many times did Adam hide from God or cover himself before sin. Surely you can admit something was terribly different in man's responses to God after sin?
It is this difference that must be repaired for man to respond to God as before. This reparation is the substance of salvation.
Developing a bias toward lies does not mean a complete inability to receive any truth. You are assuming TOTAL depravity, which the Bible does not mention.
How quickly did the repair take place?
By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks. (Heb. 11:4 NKJ)
John 6:39 talks about Jesus being given the planet and Him raising up a new planet at the last day.
John 6:40 talks about people on that planet who is seeing and believing on the Son and Him raising them up on the last day.
What are you wishing to read into those verses that is not obvious?
Since it's a doctrinal belief you repeatedly put forward, you should be the one telling us, because as far as I'm concerned, it's nonsense, and I've been telling you that for weeks... and weeks. On the other hand if you have backed down from that unBiblical stance, good for you. But you get demerit points for pretending that it wasn't you in the first place.
All-of- God and NONE-of-man in salvation?
Then what of this post-Body-of-Christ Departure 'Double Deception'?:
Thus, I do not see this strange doctrine of "God Programs human
'robots' to be saved." However, I do believe in His:
Grace, Peace, Mercy, and Love! [ "...we should not trust in ourSELVES..." ]
Amen.
Then what of this post-Body-of-Christ Departure 'Double Deception'?:
"Even him { The Wicked one }, whose coming is after the
working of Satan with all power and signs and lying
wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness
in them that perish, because they received not The Love
Of The Truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause...
...God Shall Send them Strong Delusion, that they should
believe a lie: That they all might be damned who Believed
Not The Truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness!"
(2 Thessalonians_2:9-12)
Also, why isn't 'God's Foreknowledge' part of the equation?:"For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to
be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be
the firstborn among many brethren.
Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called:
and whom He called, them He also justified: and whom He
justified, them He also glorified." (Romans 8:29-30 AV)
Thus, I do not see this strange doctrine of "God Programs human
'robots' to be saved." However, I do believe in His:
Grace, Peace, Mercy, and Love! [ "...we should not trust in ourSELVES..." ]
Amen.
You seem to have a lot of trouble understanding what folks write. I’m sorry for that, but it’s not my problem. You are going to have to dig in deeper into the Word and stop falsely accusing the brethren. I do reckon it’s time to dissolve our communications with each other. I hope you at least agree with my humble request, sister. God bless you. —Selah
So people can please God apart from faith? No they can't. Otherwise, why do the just walk by faith?
I spent some time going through Isaiah 58. It clearly shows that having an outward veneer towards God is not acceptable to God. What pleases God is not when men's lips say as God commands, but when His commands are done from a pure heart. No natural man has a pure heart; neither can he purify his own heart.
Salvation is a supernatural action taken by God to restore the heart of man to its original sinless condition. Yet, in doing so, God still leaves with the individual his fallen nature. To overcome this fallen nature, God makes believers partakers of the divine nature. Without such, we would fall again.
It is only as we walk in the Spirit that we will not sin. This is so because walking in the Spirit is the exercise of Christ living in us. We still, in our own strength, and by our own endeavor, do not please God. The exercise of faith on our part is Christ in us,the hope of glory. The justified or righteous evidence this reality as they walk by faith, or are walking under the control of the Spirit.
I would posit that because so many Christians have not been taught this or live in this estate, they believe their current estate is all that is possible. But, if you read through the book of Acts, you will find those who experienced regularly the power of God exercised magnificently and frequently in their lives. And because there has been so much abuse in these matters, many deny its reality, knowingly and unknowingly.
So while the corrupted faculties of men are sufficient to some understanding concerning God and themselves, and even sufficient to understanding their need before God at times, their fallen reality leads them to hide from God and cover themselves in such a manner as they believe they are ok before God. They are not. And were it not for the wondrous grace of God to condescend to man, he would continue to hide and cover himself.
God doesn't "program human robots to be saved"; He just saves those whom He had chosen with no contribution from them, hence making it by grace, otherwise, it wouldn't be.
I never said they were independent of one another anywhere. You literally made that up. Reminds me of your doctrinal beliefs. Made up without Biblical facts.
I cannot count the number of times you falsely accused me of not understanding what you put forward even as I asked you questions to help you clarify your position with the hope that you would finally get it right ... you made quite plain that anyone can choose of their own free will to believe in God and then they become one of the elect ... a whole thread was made on it. But if you stop talking to me then all your false accusations toward me will also stop so good for you. I will continue to call out your error.
Thanks for clarification.
It's the we must that I disagree with. It is God who initiates salvation. He sends the preacher, He gives the message, and He circumcises the heart. What we do is our endeavor...our work.
No, I do not believe that. I think that to believe is a gift that comes from salvation but does not lead to salvation.
Take Saul/Paul for example.
Sorry not recalling who SS is? To be able to believe, one must first be a sheep of Christ's. No one can make that of themselves.
Christ's sheep are only the elect.