Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR
- Thread starter MerSee
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There is a common misconception regarding total depravity. Total depravity does not mean that man is as
wicked or sinful as he could be, nor does it mean that man is without a conscience or any sense of right or
wrong. Neither does it mean that man does not or cannot do things that seem to be good when viewed from
a human perspective or measured against a human standard. It does not even mean that man cannot do things
that seem to conform outwardly to the law of God. What the Bible does teach and what total depravity does
recognize is that even the “good” things man does are tainted by sin because they are not done for the glory
of God and out of faith in Him (Romans 14:23; Hebrews 11:6). While man looks upon the outward acts and
judges them to be good, God looks upon not only the outward acts but also the inward motives that lie
behind them, and because they proceed from a heart that is in rebellion against Him and they are not done
for His glory, even these good deeds are like “filthy rags” in His sight. In other words, fallen man’s good deeds
are motivated not by a desire to please God but by our own self-interest and are thus corrupted to the point
where God declares that there is “no one who does good, no not one!” source
Romans 3:10-12
wicked or sinful as he could be, nor does it mean that man is without a conscience or any sense of right or
wrong. Neither does it mean that man does not or cannot do things that seem to be good when viewed from
a human perspective or measured against a human standard. It does not even mean that man cannot do things
that seem to conform outwardly to the law of God. What the Bible does teach and what total depravity does
recognize is that even the “good” things man does are tainted by sin because they are not done for the glory
of God and out of faith in Him (Romans 14:23; Hebrews 11:6). While man looks upon the outward acts and
judges them to be good, God looks upon not only the outward acts but also the inward motives that lie
behind them, and because they proceed from a heart that is in rebellion against Him and they are not done
for His glory, even these good deeds are like “filthy rags” in His sight. In other words, fallen man’s good deeds
are motivated not by a desire to please God but by our own self-interest and are thus corrupted to the point
where God declares that there is “no one who does good, no not one!” source
Romans 3:10-12
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If the heart is deceitful above all things as we are so informed in the verse below, then how can it un-deceitfulize (sorry, my word) itself? It can't, and so, those who have a good heart, have it, only because they have been given it. So, the question then becomes, can someone with a heart completely deceitful give to himself true faith without first having received a new heart?
[Jer 17:9-10 KJV] 9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?
[Jer 17:9-10 KJV] 9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?
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I was watching for this part of this verse to be mentioned.
NAS Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.
NAS Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.
- To come to God:
- It is necessary to believe that [He] is
- He is what? God?
- It could be translated as [He] exists.
- And it is necessary to believe that He becomes a rewarder to the ones who seek Him
- "rewarder" is more literally a "wage payer"
- It is necessary to believe that [He] is
- That the "believe that He is" in this verse seems to be what is stated in Rom1:19-20 where it says God has put certain knowledge of Himself in men.
- This last clause about believing God is a rewarder/payer is in here and in Rom1:28 the language is speaking of men who saw no value in having God in their experiential knowledge.
I guess you missed some of those posts. But the one who says people choose of their
own free will without having been chosen first by God is still posting in this thread.
Some chose themselves and then became elect is their thinking.
Not sure how you missed all that. A whole thread was made on it.
And another was very clear that they did not need God's help in coming to believe.
Gosh, it is the crux of the convo.
own free will without having been chosen first by God is still posting in this thread.
Some chose themselves and then became elect is their thinking.
Not sure how you missed all that. A whole thread was made on it.
And another was very clear that they did not need God's help in coming to believe.
Gosh, it is the crux of the convo.
So, when their heart was (more literally) stabbed/pierced this = the circumcision of their heart = the renewing of their mind then they could respond in faith?
So, per a recent post of yours, they could respond in faith because they were given faith? Would we thus put another = sign in the above string to include the gift of faith?
