He that believes and is not water baptised is saved
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(Mar 16:16) KJV: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Notice the later part of this verse. Being damned is conditioned on not believing. Not on 'not getting water baptised'
This does not make sense for all it has to mention is he that believes not shall be damned, and does not have to mention water baptized, for if a person does not believe then of course they are not going to get water baptized.
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Jesus said water and the Spirit.
1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Chris.
Here it says water baptism does save us, and it is talking about water relating it to the flood where eight people were saved by water.
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection.
Water baptism is being planted together in the likeness of Christ's death, and if we do that then we will also be in the likeness of His resurrection.
Water baptism is not to show to an outward faith, or to belong to a Church, but it is to identify with the death of Jesus in which He was buried.
You cannot cut out the middle man for we must identify with the man Christ Jesus in His death, burial, and resurrection, by repenting of our sins, being water baptized, and receiving the Spirit.
Water baptism is part of the salvation plan of God.
1Th 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father.
They say oh but water baptism is a work, and we are not saved by works, but the Bible says it is the work of faith, for everything we do and think is a work.
It is a work to confess Christ, and to have faith.
Paul said Charity is greater than faith, and faith works by love.
Paul said if they do not have charity, love in action, works, then they are nothing, and they have erred from the faith, so Paul advocates works after a person receives the Spirit, and if no works of love then they have no faith.
Which James said if they do not have charity then their faith is dead, which a person is justified by works, and not faith alone.
John sad if they do not have charity then the love of God does not dwell in them.
So do not love in word, neither in tongue, but in deed, works, and truth.
Paul, James, and John, all say the Christian is to have works or they have no faith for love is greater than faith.
We are not saved by works, but by faith, when we first confess Christ for that is all we can do, but when we receive the Spirit then we have to have works or our faith is void.
People say we are saved by only believing, and confessing Christ, but to confess Christ has certain behaviors, and deeds that go along with that, and if not then their confession does not count.
2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
1Co 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth.
Those that name the name of Christ have to depart from iniquity because love does not think an evil thought, and does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth to abstain from sin by the Spirit, and love is the fulfilling of the law, and love is greater than faith.
Notice the later part of this verse. Being damned is conditioned on not believing. Not on 'not getting water baptised'
This does not make sense for all it has to mention is he that believes not shall be damned, and does not have to mention water baptized, for if a person does not believe then of course they are not going to get water baptized.
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Jesus said water and the Spirit.
1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Chris.
Here it says water baptism does save us, and it is talking about water relating it to the flood where eight people were saved by water.
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection.
Water baptism is being planted together in the likeness of Christ's death, and if we do that then we will also be in the likeness of His resurrection.
Water baptism is not to show to an outward faith, or to belong to a Church, but it is to identify with the death of Jesus in which He was buried.
You cannot cut out the middle man for we must identify with the man Christ Jesus in His death, burial, and resurrection, by repenting of our sins, being water baptized, and receiving the Spirit.
Water baptism is part of the salvation plan of God.
1Th 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father.
They say oh but water baptism is a work, and we are not saved by works, but the Bible says it is the work of faith, for everything we do and think is a work.
It is a work to confess Christ, and to have faith.
Paul said Charity is greater than faith, and faith works by love.
Paul said if they do not have charity, love in action, works, then they are nothing, and they have erred from the faith, so Paul advocates works after a person receives the Spirit, and if no works of love then they have no faith.
Which James said if they do not have charity then their faith is dead, which a person is justified by works, and not faith alone.
John sad if they do not have charity then the love of God does not dwell in them.
So do not love in word, neither in tongue, but in deed, works, and truth.
Paul, James, and John, all say the Christian is to have works or they have no faith for love is greater than faith.
We are not saved by works, but by faith, when we first confess Christ for that is all we can do, but when we receive the Spirit then we have to have works or our faith is void.
People say we are saved by only believing, and confessing Christ, but to confess Christ has certain behaviors, and deeds that go along with that, and if not then their confession does not count.
2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
1Co 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth.
Those that name the name of Christ have to depart from iniquity because love does not think an evil thought, and does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth to abstain from sin by the Spirit, and love is the fulfilling of the law, and love is greater than faith.
So a work of faith must come after belief, right? When you exercise faith, you must have already believed.
Faith always produces works, but works never produce faith.
BTW...water and the Spirit...the water there is the word of God which is what cleanses an individual...Ephesians 5:25-26.
Faith always produces works, but works never produce faith.
BTW...water and the Spirit...the water there is the word of God which is what cleanses an individual...Ephesians 5:25-26.
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Paul said if they do not have charity, love in action, works, then they are nothing, and they have erred from the faith, so Paul advocates works after a person receives the Spirit, and if no works of love then they have no faith. "end quote"
remembering this: It is. not any of my work ever at all. It is the done work of God through Son for us that is risen, where this new born again life is given from God not me or anyone else or is it? We each are left with to believe or not believe. Many have chose to believe, from what I saw in me, I was partial. I would not finalize I am forgiven, especially since, I sinned again. I did and wanted more reconciliation, forgiveness given that has gotten provided in Son. God said, God's grace is sufficient for me and all others too.
I now believe and see all those canker sores leave, left, gone and still try to come back over and over , daily every day. I now see it is done by Son and I am in thanksgiving and praise, trusting God to do what is done for me by Son for me
And all others too, thank you.
Growing in this grace, It is like being an onion. getting peeled one layer at a time. Knowing the Center is a sweet smelling savor.
Now, take a look back in your own life from the first day you chose to believe God. Have you by God left dirt behind you too, without any pride over leaving it? I remember over 40 years ago now, when I was an Alcoholic. I saw to agree with God as that was not good for me. Been dry since, I was 27 years then, now 67 and have gone through many tragedies since, including physical death more than one time. This, on earth is a flesh fight at the beginning, to finally see to not flesh fight anymore., for all that will not deny God, now, Seeing the "Art of fighting without fighting"
Is exactly what Jesus did all that way to that cross for to save us in his risen Life, once anyone decides to believe God personally will eventually see, if one will continue in belief, even as in. the book of Job did, will we y'all? If will, then willingly die to this world, to see new life in the risen Christ given you, and love all in this mercy and truth given you, thank you.
Love all, leaves no one out, no not one. That does not mean one has to hang out with others also, if others one does not care to hang out with, I tis allowed. God desires us all to be free and happy in not harming anyone else ever again, whether others believe God or not.
A book called "The cross and the Switchblade is intrigueingly interesting, being led by God over hardships happening
remembering this: It is. not any of my work ever at all. It is the done work of God through Son for us that is risen, where this new born again life is given from God not me or anyone else or is it? We each are left with to believe or not believe. Many have chose to believe, from what I saw in me, I was partial. I would not finalize I am forgiven, especially since, I sinned again. I did and wanted more reconciliation, forgiveness given that has gotten provided in Son. God said, God's grace is sufficient for me and all others too.
I now believe and see all those canker sores leave, left, gone and still try to come back over and over , daily every day. I now see it is done by Son and I am in thanksgiving and praise, trusting God to do what is done for me by Son for me
And all others too, thank you.
Growing in this grace, It is like being an onion. getting peeled one layer at a time. Knowing the Center is a sweet smelling savor.
Now, take a look back in your own life from the first day you chose to believe God. Have you by God left dirt behind you too, without any pride over leaving it? I remember over 40 years ago now, when I was an Alcoholic. I saw to agree with God as that was not good for me. Been dry since, I was 27 years then, now 67 and have gone through many tragedies since, including physical death more than one time. This, on earth is a flesh fight at the beginning, to finally see to not flesh fight anymore., for all that will not deny God, now, Seeing the "Art of fighting without fighting"
Is exactly what Jesus did all that way to that cross for to save us in his risen Life, once anyone decides to believe God personally will eventually see, if one will continue in belief, even as in. the book of Job did, will we y'all? If will, then willingly die to this world, to see new life in the risen Christ given you, and love all in this mercy and truth given you, thank you.
Love all, leaves no one out, no not one. That does not mean one has to hang out with others also, if others one does not care to hang out with, I tis allowed. God desires us all to be free and happy in not harming anyone else ever again, whether others believe God or not.
A book called "The cross and the Switchblade is intrigueingly interesting, being led by God over hardships happening
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I see the water is: as in the next verse 6 after verse 5 of John 3 First born of flesh, then born of Spirit
That is the view I am given to see, as in knowing, no flesh will ever please God as man continues to try to and still to this day can't
Only the Son did and can and will never doing it again, It is Done Finished
John 19:30, the risen life came after this done work of Son. That be the new life offered us the people to be born new by God Father not of the self or others ever, imop
That is the view I am given to see, as in knowing, no flesh will ever please God as man continues to try to and still to this day can't
Only the Son did and can and will never doing it again, It is Done Finished
John 19:30, the risen life came after this done work of Son. That be the new life offered us the people to be born new by God Father not of the self or others ever, imop
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Hi all. Just thought I would contribute to this discussion. I see that a number of the key passages about this subject have been brough up already. I'm going to post a link to a couple of articles about the subject that sum up my understanding of how the Lord views this subject based on scripture: The Purpose of Baptism - Seeking Things Above and Is Baptism Really That Hard To Understand? — Teaching Truth. These articles included the scriptures that back up the belief that baptism is indeed necessary for salvation.
It's true that God is the final arbiter of who is and is not saved, but that doesn't mean we can just ignore his teachings and hope for the best. If someone is in an extreme situation and calls on God for forgiveness, that is up to the Lord to decide. But we can't base our own decisions about whether or not to be baptized on extreme case situations. We are responsible today for our decisions about baptism based on what God's word commands. Scriptures like Mark 16:16 and Acts 2:38 make it clear that the command for those who would obey God is to repent and be baptized for the remission of our sins.
We also can't ignore God's teaching and say we have faith. The Lord gave the parable of the two sons (Matthew 21: 28-32) to show that the one who does God's will doesn't just talk about it, they act on it.
Thanks
It's true that God is the final arbiter of who is and is not saved, but that doesn't mean we can just ignore his teachings and hope for the best. If someone is in an extreme situation and calls on God for forgiveness, that is up to the Lord to decide. But we can't base our own decisions about whether or not to be baptized on extreme case situations. We are responsible today for our decisions about baptism based on what God's word commands. Scriptures like Mark 16:16 and Acts 2:38 make it clear that the command for those who would obey God is to repent and be baptized for the remission of our sins.
We also can't ignore God's teaching and say we have faith. The Lord gave the parable of the two sons (Matthew 21: 28-32) to show that the one who does God's will doesn't just talk about it, they act on it.
Thanks
Salvation is about obeying God. In the old testament we have the story of Naaman, a leper, from Syria. He was not a believer, not a Jew. Probably worshipped idols. He came to God’s prophet because he heard he could heal him of his leprosy. He was told to go wash in the Jordan River 7 times. Naaman was angry and didn’t want to do it. Do you think he would have been healed if he didn’t do what God said? No, he would have remained a leper. He eventually did what God said and when he came up out of the water the 7th time, he was healed from his leprosy. Was there POWER in the water of the Jordan River to heal leprosy? No. The water is nothing—it’s all about obeying God’s commands. The power to heal or save us i
Is obedience to God. Doing what He says. Salvation isn’t about getting wet; just as healing leprosy is not about getting wet—it’s about obeying God. Don’t let men deceive you. Satan doesn’t want you to obey God.
Is obedience to God. Doing what He says. Salvation isn’t about getting wet; just as healing leprosy is not about getting wet—it’s about obeying God. Don’t let men deceive you. Satan doesn’t want you to obey God.
I'm not stepping into this debate, but I did wonder if anyone would get into this.
So:
Believe > Baptized = Saved
Believe > Baptized = Saved ? Not if the above is true
Believe > Baptized = Saved ? Not if the above is true
Believe > Baptized = Saved ? Not if the above is true
As you point out, why is it necessary to say "Not Baptized" in the second clause? Even the simplest argument says if no Belief then Baptism doesn't matter. If A + B = C, if we negate that A or B then C is not that C.
It seems the argument against the necessity of water baptism must come from elsewhere to make it true.
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I do try to obey God! I have been immersed after salvation.. I go to church regularly, study the Bible and share my faith.
But these are responses to what God has done for me by giving me eternal life. Not the way of getting eternal life.
Baptism is a response to the gift given..all works are. Not the vehicle by which the gift is given.
But these are responses to what God has done for me by giving me eternal life. Not the way of getting eternal life.
Baptism is a response to the gift given..all works are. Not the vehicle by which the gift is given.
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It’s always best to read above and below a verse to understand the context. If you had read the verses before verse 11 you would have seen that John the Baptist was talking specifically to the Pharisees and Saducees when he talked about Jesus baptizing with the Holy Spirit and fire. Verses 7-10. He even called them a brood of vipers. So you are saying that Jesus was going to baptize THEM. A brood of vipers with the Holy Spirit? Again you have “Cherry picked” 1 verse, taken it out of its context and mis applied it. It’s true that when Jesus came, he baptized some people with the Holy Spirit —He baptized 11apistles and he baptized Cornelius and all of those who were in his house. I think that qualifies as “some people.” But John was not speaking specifically to the to the general population here but to a specific group of people and all he is doing is relating information about the Messiah. He is not saying the ones there at that time were the ones who were going to receive the Holy Spirit baptism—certainly not the Pharisees and Saducees.
There are 5 different baptisms mentioned in the New Testament. They all served a purpose but all but one has ceased.
Baptism 1) the baptism of John. It was a baptism of repentance and was for getting the people ready for the Messiah. Mark 1:1-4
Baptism 2)the miraculous baptism of the Holy
Spirit. Acts 2 and Acts 10. It was never intended for everyone. Only occurred twice in the New Testament. It was used as a “sign” of approval from God. Heb. 2:3-4, Mark 16:20.
Baptism 3) baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins. Acts 2:38. This is the one baptism in Ephesians 4:4. In Acts 18 there were some disciples of Christ who had only been baptized with John’s baptism and had to be re-baptized in the name of Jesus. John’s baptism was done away once the apostles began baptizing in the name if Jesus. John’s baptism was only temporary.
Baptism 4) the baptism of suffering; only Jesus experienced this as He was crucified on the cross. Mark 10:38. Luke 12:50
Baptism 5) the baptism of fire. This is eternal punishment. Matthew 3
The only baptism that remains today is water baptism in the name of Jesus.
Baptism 1) the baptism of John. It was a baptism of repentance and was for getting the people ready for the Messiah. Mark 1:1-4
Baptism 2)the miraculous baptism of the Holy
Spirit. Acts 2 and Acts 10. It was never intended for everyone. Only occurred twice in the New Testament. It was used as a “sign” of approval from God. Heb. 2:3-4, Mark 16:20.
Baptism 3) baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins. Acts 2:38. This is the one baptism in Ephesians 4:4. In Acts 18 there were some disciples of Christ who had only been baptized with John’s baptism and had to be re-baptized in the name of Jesus. John’s baptism was done away once the apostles began baptizing in the name if Jesus. John’s baptism was only temporary.
Baptism 4) the baptism of suffering; only Jesus experienced this as He was crucified on the cross. Mark 10:38. Luke 12:50
Baptism 5) the baptism of fire. This is eternal punishment. Matthew 3
The only baptism that remains today is water baptism in the name of Jesus.