There will be no Rapture!!!

[Musicmaster]

Writings not inspired by Yah?
So why are you reading Revelation?
That's what I am discussing.
And I suppose the Disciples of John are just lying about John placing them over these other Churches?
You think everyone lies.
Whenever I have ran into this scenario before it led to the discovery that a liar thinks everyone else is always lying because they lie all of the time it leads them to believe everyone else is just like them.

You have a knack for turning tables on people. I was talking about your reliance upon post-apostolic writers not being inspired by Yah to write what is on the level of scripture. Also, claiming that I think everyone lies, that will never suffice at making uninspired writings approach the level of inspiration such as what serves as the foundation for scripture.

Paul of Tarsus stated that SCRIPTURE is good for instruction, correction, rebuke, etc., not all those writings by men who were not inspired by Yah, so please try and insult the intelligence of others who don't have much.

MM

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

This clearly is talking about us because we know the majority of SINNERS going into the Tribulation will reject God.

This statement doesn't affect things either way... and I'll endeavor to explain below

So the Number John could not count [like today's 2.5 Billion Christians] would make perfect sense it's the BRIDE.

1) Revelation 7:9 (the "a great multitude... of all the nations") is set in contradistinction to the "144,000" of ONE nation (the tribes of Israel named in that passage--"servants of our God"--12,000 from each of the tribes listed)--They exist on the earth in / during the same time-period;


2) the TIMING perfectly matches the wording of:
Matthew 24:14 / 26:13 (not to mention the SEQUENCE we find between that of Matt22:7[=70ad] and 22:8[=Rev1:1/7:3--"144,000 servants of our God") which is the message that WILL be going forth IN / WITHIN / DURING the [7] Trib years--the INVITATION TO the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age (corresponding as well with the DISTINCTION between Rev19:7 and 19:9!);


3) Paul ALSO, in his 2Th1 & 2 chpts, tells of the TWO OPPOSITE "beliefs" people WILL BE coming to FOLLOWING "our Rapture"--so the "a great multitude... of all the nations" [besides the 144,000 of Israel, etc] being a number that no one can count can certainly be [among] those who come to faith in Christ DURING the Trib (that is, FOLLOWING "our Rapture") without any problem...

There's also the martyrs in the 5th Seal who aren't among those spoken of in Rev7:9, but who ALSO came to faith IN / DURING / WITHIN the Trib years (its FIRST HALF);

7:9 After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb <------- those are the Gentile Christians of right now or within next year or so

7:14... “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation."

I disagree with that sentence I underlined ^ .

These are instead the results / outcome of what WILL BE "preached in all the world" IN / DURING / WITHIN the Trib years (FOLLOWING "our Rapture"--so NOT *BY* US): Matthew 24:14 / 26:13! (etc... which I put in the first section)

 

[Genez]

Writings not inspired by Yah?
So why are you reading Revelation?
That's what I am discussing.
And I suppose the Disciples of John are just lying about John placing them over these other Churches?
You think everyone lies.
Whenever I have ran into this scenario before it led to the discovery that a liar thinks everyone else is always lying because they lie all of the time it leads them to believe everyone else is just like them.

Its the place of solace for a liar to think everyone lies like he does... (or, she does) (Or, "it" does) Or, "they do).....

 

[Genez]

The beautiful thing is that we know the history of these churches and that John was given instruction for them while at Patmos, then we have records of John and his own Disciples going to these Churches and fixing them. And that actually leads us to when Revelation actually begins. At chapter 4, in the Throne Room of God, and the whole Book of Revelation after that remains in the Throne Room of God.

So it's obvious the 7 Churches are merely mentioned for their sins and warnings but the "futuristic prophecy" actually begins at the Throne Room. So there's literally no reference to the Bride being actually ever mentioned at all in Revelation.

In chapter 7 it shows the Billions of people like today's setting from all nations and tongues and peoples [Gentiles] and some place during the Tribulation they end up in Heaven.

In chapter 20 we see those who rejected the Mark and were beheaded.

And we already know at the end of Tribulation the Angels gather what's mostly the converted Jews at the Second Coming.

But Revelation literally says ALL of these people were in the Tribulation even if it's for only a short time.


This clearly is talking about us because we know the majority of SINNERS going into the Tribulation will reject God. So the Number John could not count [like today's 2.5 Billion Christians] would make perfect sense it's the BRIDE.

7:9 After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb <------- those are the Gentile Christians of right now or within next year or so

7:14... “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation."

Why limit to only Revelation?
The Word of God is actually one book...
We learn of the Bride of Christ from various books found in the NT.
Sometimes we read truth that alludes to that truth, such as..

Ephesians 5:22-23

Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord.
For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church,
his body, of which he is the Savior.

And, I wonder if you needed to be told that.


........

 

[Genez]

Even the title of thread makes the same claim and why I first clicked on it. But most of the first pages are full of banned posters and I almost skipped out of it but went to the last page, at that time, and saw a discussion about something else. And now this current discussion has been going on ever since.

What I showed was in response to your following comment..

I have not actually seen anyone debating the Rapture will not happen.

And, I showed the first place where it was...

......... that's all!

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

You have a knack for turning tables on people. I was talking about your reliance upon post-apostolic writers not being inspired by Yah to write what is on the level of scripture. Also, claiming that I think everyone lies, that will never suffice at making uninspired writings approach the level of inspiration such as what serves as the foundation for scripture.

Paul of Tarsus stated that SCRIPTURE is good for instruction, correction, rebuke, etc., not all those writings by men who were not inspired by Yah, so please try and insult the intelligence of others who don't have much.

MM

Do you think that John, a Disciple of Jesus, see's himself writing down things that has happened and things that will happen understood his own Disciples could be doing the same thing?

John picked these men for a reason like Jesus picked His.

There's literally no reason to not read John's Disciples writings unless you're trying to make a claim that opposes them.

You clearly are doing that and why you consistently and adamantly oppose them.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

This statement doesn't affect things either way... and I'll endeavor to explain below



1) Revelation 7:9 (the "a great multitude... of all the nations") is set in contradistinction to the "144,000" of ONE nation (the tribes of Israel named in that passage--"servants of our God"--12,000 from each of the tribes listed)--They exist on the earth in / during the same time-period;


2) the TIMING perfectly matches the wording of:
Matthew 24:14 / 26:13 (not to mention the SEQUENCE we find between that of Matt22:7[=70ad] and 22:8[=Rev1:1/7:3--"144,000 servants of our God") which is the message that WILL be going forth IN / WITHIN / DURING the [7] Trib years--the INVITATION TO the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age (corresponding as well with the DISTINCTION between Rev19:7 and 19:9!);


3) Paul ALSO, in his 2Th1 & 2 chpts, tells of the TWO OPPOSITE "beliefs" people WILL BE coming to FOLLOWING "our Rapture"--so the "a great multitude... of all the nations" [besides the 144,000 of Israel, etc] being a number that no one can count can certainly be [among] those who come to faith in Christ DURING the Trib (that is, FOLLOWING "our Rapture") without any problem...

There's also the martyrs in the 5th Seal who aren't among those spoken of in Rev7:9, but who ALSO came to faith IN / DURING / WITHIN the Trib years (its FIRST HALF);



I disagree with that sentence I underlined ^ .

These are instead the results / outcome of what WILL BE "preached in all the world" IN / DURING / WITHIN the Trib years (FOLLOWING "our Rapture"--so NOT *BY* US): Matthew 24:14 / 26:13! (etc... which I put in the first section)

Paul makes no such thing. Paul even writes """those, as WE are alive and REMAIN"""

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Its the place of solace for a liar to think everyone lies like he does... (or, she does) (Or, "it" does) Or, "they do).....

He has a habit of in the middle of a discussion to start yapping on a complete separate tangent and then come back and make claims like such because you remain to the original topic.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Why limit to only Revelation?
The Word of God is actually one book...
We learn of the Bride of Christ from various books found in the NT.
Sometimes we read truth that alludes to that truth, such as..

Ephesians 5:22-23

Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord.
For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church,
his body, of which he is the Savior.

And, I wonder if you needed to be told that.


........

I don't but Revelation gives us a complete outline and I am presenting it.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

What I showed was in response to your following comment..

I have not actually seen anyone debating the Rapture will not happen.

And, I showed the first place where it was...

......... that's all!

I might skip through the pages and see if anyone has that position of belief. Would be interesting how they go about explaining it.

 

[Genez]

The beautiful thing is that we know the history of these churches and that John was given instruction for them while at Patmos, then we have records of John and his own Disciples going to these Churches and fixing them. And that actually leads us to when Revelation actually begins. At chapter 4, in the Throne Room of God, and the whole Book of Revelation after that remains in the Throne Room of God.

So it's obvious the 7 Churches are merely mentioned for their sins and warnings but the "futuristic prophecy" actually begins at the Throne Room. So there's literally no reference to the Bride being actually ever mentioned at all in Revelation.

In chapter 7 it shows the Billions of people like today's setting from all nations and tongues and peoples [Gentiles] and some place during the Tribulation they end up in Heaven.

In chapter 20 we see those who rejected the Mark and were beheaded.

And we already know at the end of Tribulation the Angels gather what's mostly the converted Jews at the Second Coming.

But Revelation literally says ALL of these people were in the Tribulation even if it's for only a short time.


This clearly is talking about us because we know the majority of SINNERS going into the Tribulation will reject God. So the Number John could not count [like today's 2.5 Billion Christians] would make perfect sense it's the BRIDE.

7:9 After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb <------- those are the Gentile Christians of right now or within next year or so

7:14... “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation."

If there is neither Jew nor Gentile in Christ? [Galatians 3:28]

Why suddenly the switch to using the term 144,000 JEWS for the Tribulation? If the 144,000 speaks of the Church?

And? Why suddenly so many Jews?

Very few Jews are members of the church today.

I know that for a FACT.

 

[Genez]

I don't but Revelation gives us a complete outline and I am presenting it.

No you are not. For you are working out of the context and assuming your own.

 

[Genez]

I might skip through the pages and see if anyone has that position of belief. Would be interesting how they go about explaining it.

So you believe, if alive at the time, you will be going through the Great Tribulation?

 

[Musicmaster]

Do you think that John, a Disciple of Jesus, see's himself writing down things that has happened and things that will happen understood his own Disciples could be doing the same thing?

John picked these men for a reason like Jesus picked His.

There's literally no reason to not read John's Disciples writings unless you're trying to make a claim that opposes them.

You clearly are doing that and why you consistently and adamantly oppose them.

Your reasoning is fundamentally flawed, based upon some agenda that you absolutely will not admit openly.

Let me be more succinct in the matter:

Inspired writings are infallible!

Non-inspired writings are fallible!

Do you get that? Does it make its way with enough depth to finally get into your thought processes in relation to this topic? I mean, how many thousands of ways does someone have to say something for it to get through? What part of this do you not understand?

Romans 3:1-4
1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit [is there] of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

This is priceless in showing to us that when Yah inspires something to be written, it is from Him and not men, and is therefore true!

So, yes, what John wrote, along with his pupil followers, things that were not absolutely inspired by Yah, originating from Yah, yes, those men's writings are LIES by comparison!

Why can't you seem to get that?

MM

 

[NEWTOCHRISTIANITY]

@Musicmaster : That's a bit harsh, isn't it?!

 

[Musicmaster]

So you believe, if alive at the time, you will be going through the Great Tribulation?

All these professing believers who believe that they will be left behind on this earth to enjoy the "blessed hope" of the tribulation, with every other person on this earth dying in the very first 42 months, let them stay if they want. As warped and twisted as their views are about that "blessed hope" written about in scripture, let them redefine that in whatever way they want so that they can feel better about their strange and whacked out rules for hermeneutics. None of them have yet explained how their thoughts about eschatology can possibly fit the narratives that speak otherwise, but they are indeed free to believe such and to demand of the Lord that He leave them here to enjoy their horrid understanding of the "blessed hope" that they seem to envision.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

@Musicmaster : That's a bit harsh, isn't it?!

We both snarl and swipe at each other, being the Jewish warriors that we are. Giving someone rug burn when calling them out isn't always a Gayla affair.

MM

 

[NEWTOCHRISTIANITY]

We both snarl and swipe at each other, being the Jewish warriors that we are. Giving someone rug burn when calling them out isn't always a Gayla affair.

MM

Fair enough, then!

 

[Genez]

@Musicmaster : That's a bit harsh, isn't it?!

You want to see harsh?
Harsh, from someone filled with the Spirit, no less?

From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, ​

and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, ​

and be raised the third day.​

​

Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, ​

“Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!”​

​

But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! ​

You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, ​

but the things of men.” Matthew 16:21-23​

Was not the Lord loving Peter in telling Peter - not sparing Peter's feelings - about what
it was that could end up destroying Peter's walk with God?

And, later?

Jesus tells them all to love one another as He had loved them?

We have been pampered way too much...
Are we not to fight the good fight?

Harsh, but honest.
When 'harsh' is called for.

Harsh, but fair.
When 'harsh' is called for.



grace and peace ................

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Your reasoning is fundamentally flawed, based upon some agenda that you absolutely will not admit openly.

Let me be more succinct in the matter:

Inspired writings are infallible!

Non-inspired writings are fallible!

Do you get that? Does it make its way with enough depth to finally get into your thought processes in relation to this topic? I mean, how many thousands of ways does someone have to say something for it to get through? What part of this do you not understand?

Romans 3:1-4
1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit [is there] of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

This is priceless in showing to us that when Yah inspires something to be written, it is from Him and not men, and is therefore true!

So, yes, what John wrote, along with his pupil followers, things that were not absolutely inspired by Yah, originating from Yah, yes, those men's writings are LIES by comparison!

Why can't you seem to get that?

MM

There is no doubt what John wrote is "Inspired of Yah." And there should be no doubt that what the Disciples of John wrote were taught to them by John, who was "Inspired by Yah." And they are literally repeating the understanding of an "Inspired by Yah" man. Which doesn't get much closer to the truth than that. John's Disciples are not saying anything that John, who was "Inspired by Yah," would have said and believed. You just refuse to admit that.

The Apostle John in his writings literally said the same thing Jesus said while on Earth teaching John. John's Disciples in their writings are literally saying the same thing the Apostle John said while on Earth teaching them. But you reject it because they clarify that your beliefs are wrong.

This is why I will continue to bring it up. They are repeating John's words like John repeated Jesus words and their words disagree with your personal beliefs. That's hilarious. That means if they were alive right now they would say you're following a "False Doctrine." To me, it doesn't get any funnier than that